Ground friction (for non-wheel parts)

[tutike2000]

Hi,

Is there any way to incraese the friction of parts? Specifically in low-gravity environments.
Is this moddable? Is there any config that I can change to increase friction globally?

The reason I'm asking is that I'm frustrated with kerbals/ships infinitely sliding down pretty much any incline on the Mun.

Thanks

Edited December 12, 2017 by tutike2000

[Rocket In My Pocket]

Upside down Jet engines will push your COM down, even below the ground if enough are added. (They don't need to be on or anything, the models COM is farther ahead then it looks due to the "unseen" plumbing that would be there.)

This tends to make things much more stable and less prone to sliding on Kerbin anways. Can't say I've tested it much on the Mun though...

I think the lower gravity is the issue really. Making the thing in question very heavy would prolly help; but that's obviously not a realistic option.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Rocket In My Pocket

[Corona688]

Literal "down force" in the form of RCS or other engines can keep you stable at key moments:

...but should that fail, (lack of) gravity will quickly reassert itself.

 

[Shadowmage]

1 hour ago, tutike2000 said:

Is this moddable? Is there any config that I can change to increase friction globally?

Moddable through config files?  Not that I'm aware.

Moddable through plugin code?  Sure.  I actually adjust terrain friction in KSPWheel to fix up some of the inconsistencies in the stock terrain/collider settings.

Is it a good idea?  Probably not.  It is a hacky workaround at best. 

The true fix for your problem (kerbals sliding down hills) really needs to come from SQUAD (or Unity), in the form of some sort of implementation of 'static friction'. (honestly, I think the real problem is related to KSP's manipulation of world coordinates, spinning reference frames, and the way they apply gravity; the stuff really shouldn't be sliding, as Unity -does- support static friction -- but it only works when colliders are allowed to 'rest', which doesn't work in KSP as they manually add gravity every tick, which force-wakes the collider)

[softweir]

What is really freaky is when you start sliding downhill, then turn your craft around using RCS (which is easy because slitheriness) and your ship is now sliding up hill!

[tutike2000]

1 hour ago, Shadowmage said:

The true fix for your problem (kerbals sliding down hills) really needs to come from SQUAD (or Unity), in the form of some sort of implementation of 'static friction'.

Hmm, I see. I guess I'll just have to land on minmus' flats until then

[Ultimate Steve]

Yeah, it's annoying when you have plenty of area contacting the surface of Eve only to have your 200 ton lander slide down the ever slow slight grade limiting your trip time to a few minutes on the surface.

[Shadowmage]

13 minutes ago, softweir said:

What is really freaky is when you start sliding downhill, then turn your craft around using RCS (which is easy because slitheriness) and your ship is now sliding up hill!

Hehe, that is actually caused by the stock landing gear/landing legs (if it is the problem I'm thinking of).  Squad -tried- to fix the landing gear to not slide... but didn't fix it properly.  I've had that bit of code forcefully tip over a craft that should have been resting nicely on all four landing legs.  On a perfectly flat landing spot.

(if you ever see that happen with KSPWheel wheels/legs/gear, I would be truly surprised)

[katateochi]

I feel this is one of the places where KSP forgets that it's a game.  Trying to model object-ground friction is more realistic, if it works right, but clearly there's a problem with that. I think it would be much better if when a craft comes to a complete stop it should be "locked" in place and only move again if a suitable external force is imparted to it or it generates internal force (from thrust, SAS or moving parts only).  It might not be how it works in RL, but faking it can be more computationally efficient and give a better user experience. 

I've been getting really frustrated with a large base that keeps sliding down a very slight incline. I thought oh well, I'll just let it slide down until it reaches the bottom and then it'll stop, but no...then the problem became worse because it would try to clip into the ground on load and be launched into the air.  I've had to install vessel mover just so I can reposition base components that refuse to stay put. 

Edited December 13, 2017 by katateochi

[Geschosskopf]

On 12/12/2017 at 10:32 AM, tutike2000 said:

The reason I'm asking is that I'm frustrated with kerbals/ships infinitely sliding down pretty much any incline on the Mun.

Yeah, some Unity update back around 0.9 or 1.0 hosed up ground friction and it's never been right since.

Sometimes, if the gravity is low enough and the slope is shallow enough, you can SOMETIMES stop a lander sliding by planting flags on the downhill side.  Then the slide stops when it hits the flags.  But this doesn't always work---sometimes the lander will just bulldoze the flags.  And even when it works, it's often only temporary, especially if you reload physics on the lander.

KAS/KIS and some base mods that use those things allow you to attach ships and bases to the ground in various ways.  These USUALLY do the job, but I recommend disconnecting all such connections before shifty focus away from the ship/base.  This is because reloading physics with such connections in place often causes undesirable explosions.

[Archgeek]

Hehhe, 'wasn't too long ago when some shenanigans involving the normal force calculation and the rotation of the landed-on body meant that everyone's landers kept creeping uphill.