Air Superiority Fighter Competition Continued

[GillyMonster]

5 minutes ago, Earthlinger said:

True, that

Gun spam matters more than maneuverability lately...

So should there be a gun limit?  Since it's kind of gone from plausible to ridiculous?  I know hidden vulcans represent just what's visible on modern aircraft but a single 20mm gun system takes up almost the entire nose of a modern fighter.

Edit:  I don't think missile limits should apply since they have countermeasures.  There isn't really a gun countermeasure beyond "move out of the way really fast."

Edited March 16, 2018 by GillyMonster

[Piatzin]

13 minutes ago, GillyMonster said:

So should there be a gun limit?  Since it's kind of gone from plausible to ridiculous?  I know hidden vulcans represent just what's visible on modern aircraft but a single 20mm gun system takes up almost the entire nose of a modern fighter.

Edit:  I don't think missile limits should apply since they have countermeasures.  There isn't really a gun countermeasure beyond "move out of the way really fast."

6 Vulcan cannons, IMHO, is more than enough. Over ten is just excessive and not particularly more effective than eight or fourteen or whatever.

[goduranus]

2 hours ago, Box of Stardust said:

RBS Cruise Missile

Oh wow, nice find, that missile's got an active radar.

Edited March 16, 2018 by goduranus

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Earthlinger said:

6 Vulcan cannons, IMHO, is more than enough. Over ten is just excessive and not particularly more effective than eight or fourteen or whatever.

My upcoming Du-6S uses 8...

[Box of Stardust]

5 minutes ago, goduranus said:

Oh wow, nice find, that missile's got an active radar.

Uh... sorta? It's terminal guidance, but it doesn't seem to work against the Squirrels. It never shows up on their RWR, so they don't really react to it.

25 minutes ago, Earthlinger said:

True, that

Gun spam matters more than maneuverability lately...

 

19 minutes ago, GillyMonster said:

So should there be a gun limit?  Since it's kind of gone from plausible to ridiculous?  I know hidden vulcans represent just what's visible on modern aircraft but a single 20mm gun system takes up almost the entire nose of a modern fighter.

Edit:  I don't think missile limits should apply since they have countermeasures.  There isn't really a gun countermeasure beyond "move out of the way really fast."

 

Earlier (around page 55), I suggested that if gun spam was eventually seen as a problem, the ideal limitation would be 1 Vulcan per ton of an aircraft's dry weight (fully unloaded of fuel, ammo, and missiles).

However, currently we've kind of moved to a missile arms race, so we'll see how it plays out.

Edited March 16, 2018 by Box of Stardust

[goduranus]

Hmm, it was showed on the RWR of my other plane.

[Box of Stardust]

Just now, goduranus said:

Hmm, it was showed on the RWR of my other plane.

It's inconsistent. Haven't figured it out fully yet.

[Guest]

@Box of Stardust, @goduranus:

Could you explain exactly how to setup/run dogfights? I have time to run some today, tomorrow, and most of next week, but I don't fully understand how to setup/run them. Thanks.

[Piatzin]

2 minutes ago, dundun92 said:

I have time

Lucky

I'm being bogged down by work

Edited March 16, 2018 by Earthlinger

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Earthlinger said:

Lucky

I'm being bogged down by work

Being homeschooled has it's advantages...

[Piatzin]

3 minutes ago, dundun92 said:

Being homeschooled has it's advantages...

I know

I miss that

I'm only in my current school because it's a free IB school, and the diploma is very appealing

Edited March 16, 2018 by Earthlinger

[goduranus]

I think here are some steps, assuming you're playing on Windows 10

• Open PRE(physics range extension) tab on the top right, and set ground object load range to ~40km
• Use Vessel Spawner menu to deploy one of the teams on the eastern tip of the KSC runway, facing east
• Use Vessel Spawner menu to deploy the other team on the western tip of the island runway, facing west
• Check if teams are correct, then F5 to quick save
• If needed, swap to all competitor vessels and press space bar to activate their engines, although some planes are set up to not need this
• Use BDArmory menu, click gear shaped settings button to start competition mode
• When opposing sides are closer than 8km apart, press [windows key]+G to open game recording menu(windows key is usually between Ctrl and Alt keys)
• Click the Record button in the game recording menu
• After combat ends, press [windows key]+G again and click on the stop record button
• The videos are saved under "This PC\Videos"

If you're using Windows 7, then you might have to use shadowplay or some other 3rd party program.

[Box of Stardust]

14 minutes ago, dundun92 said:

@Box of Stardust, @goduranus:

Could you explain exactly how to setup/run dogfights? I have time to run some today, tomorrow, and most of next week, but I don't fully understand how to setup/run them. Thanks.

I follow exbyde's method of aircraft placement on the ground, with #1 center rear, #2 in front of it and to the left, and #3 in the lead and to the right of #1.

There's a bit more nuance in running the dogfight, since BD AI has a bit of a weird glitch with the pilot AIs. Aircraft launched from the Island Airfield might do some weird 'collision avoidance' maneuvers when launched, which really screws up the aircraft formation on approach. Assuming there was appropriate spacing and arrangement on the aircraft on the ground, all that needs to be done is a quick revert to the last quicksave (assuming you quicksaved when all aircraft were ready to launch), and then this time the aircraft should directly turn towards the enemy in proper formation.

For aircraft start up, you'll need to stage to start the engines. However, some planes (like mine and goduranus's) will auto-start even without staging, when 'begin competition' is activated. This is because the AI pilot will turn on the SAS, so if you bind everything you want to start on a plane to the SAS action group (like engines and ECM), you won't need to worry about cycling through every plane and starting them up.

Also I can't really recommend graphics settings since I don't know your rig, but I've got a pretty top-end setup and still most of my settings are turned down so that everything runs optimally.

I can make a video since it might be more helpful with visuals. But if you want to have a go, you can do some test recordings and we'll point out anything we notice.

 

5 minutes ago, goduranus said:

I think here are some steps, assuming you're playing on Windows 10

• Open PRE(physics range extension) tab on the top right, and set ground object load range to ~40km
• Use Vessel Spawner menu to deploy one of the teams on the eastern tip of the KSC runway, facing east
• Use Vessel Spawner menu to deploy the other team on the western tip of the island runway, facing west
• Check if teams are correct, then F5 to quick save
• If needed, swap to all competitor vessels and press space bar to activate their engines, although some planes are set up to not need this
• Use BDArmory menu, click gear shaped settings button to start competition mode
• When opposing sides are closer than 8km apart, press [windows key]+G to open game recording menu(windows key is usually between Ctrl and Alt keys)
• Click the Record button in the game recording menu
• After combat ends, press [windows key]+G again and click on the stop record button
• The videos are saved under "This PC\Videos"

If you're using Windows 7, then you might have to use shadowplay or some other 3rd party program.

 

There's OBS, which is pretty awesome and free.

 

 

Also, does anyone know how to get BD Modular Missile Parts to show up in the parts menu?

Edited March 16, 2018 by Box of Stardust

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, goduranus said:

I think here are some steps, assuming you're playing on Windows 10

• Open PRE(physics range extension) tab on the top right, and set ground object load range to ~40km
• Use Vessel Spawner menu to deploy one of the teams on the eastern tip of the KSC runway, facing east
• Use Vessel Spawner menu to deploy the other team on the western tip of the island runway, facing west
• Check if teams are correct, then F5 to quick save
• If needed, swap to all competitor vessels and press space bar to activate their engines, although some planes are set up to not need this
• Use BDArmory menu, click gear shaped settings button to start competition mode
• When opposing sides are closer than 8km apart, press [windows key]+G to open game recording menu(windows key is usually between Ctrl and Alt keys)
• Click the Record button in the game recording menu
• After combat ends, press [windows key]+G again and click on the stop record button
• The videos are saved under "This PC\Videos"

If you're using Windows 7, then you might have to use shadowplay or some other 3rd party program.

Thanks! And, I do use 7 (as my member title/profile pic suggest), so im probably use Bandicam, if nobody minds the watermark. 

3 minutes ago, Box of Stardust said:

Also I can't really recommend graphics settings since I don't know your rig, but I've got a pretty top-end setup and still most of my settings are turned down so that everything runs optimally.

Meh. Potato-ish laptop actually. NVS5200M, i5-3320M at 2.6GHz. I just turn everything down

Edited March 16, 2018 by Guest

[goduranus]

4 minutes ago, Box of Stardust said:

There's a bit more nuance in running the dogfight, since BD AI has a bit of a weird glitch with the pilot AIs. Aircraft launched from the Island Airfield might do some weird 'collision avoidance' maneuvers when launched, which really screws up the aircraft formation on approach. 

For this one, try to spawn each plane in a slightly different direction, with J and L keys. I try to point them away from the center(fighter on the right point slightly to the right, and fighter to the left point slightly to the left) of the formation by 1-2 key presses, this seems to keep them from doing a crazy collision avoidance maneuver some of the time.

Edited March 16, 2018 by goduranus

[Piatzin]

4 minutes ago, goduranus said:

crazy collision avoidance maneuver

One of my Lancers once 'avoided a collision' by swerving sideways and into the SPH

*Face Palm*

Edited March 16, 2018 by Earthlinger

[Box of Stardust]

2 minutes ago, goduranus said:

For this one, try to spawn each plane in a slightly different direction, with J and L keys. I try to point them away from the center(fighter on the right point slightly to the right, and fighter to the left point slightly to the left) of the formation by 1-2 key presses, this seems to keep them from doing a crazy collision avoidance maneuver some of the time.

For consistency with the KSC launch, I line the Island aircraft up to bearing 270 on the NavBall, then just let them go. Like I said, re-running after a reverted quicksave solves the problem; they turn in normally as they should after that point.

[GillyMonster]

46 minutes ago, Earthlinger said:

6 Vulcan cannons, IMHO, is more than enough. Over ten is just excessive and not particularly more effective than eight or fourteen or whatever.

I agree.  Generally speaking 4-6 vulcans spread along the wingspan of the fighters on here will pretty much saturate the airspace.  You don't even really need any on a vertical axis since the planes on here maneuver by changing their pitch the majority of the time.

[Guest]

@Box of Stardust this is the performance I would get from my PC (note that this was done with the old dogfight rules)

 

[GillyMonster]

1 hour ago, dundun92 said:

My upcoming Du-6S uses 8...

That seems ok to me.  I'm just waiting to see a plane that has more guns than actual aircraft parts.  

[Piatzin]

1 minute ago, GillyMonster said:

That seems ok to me.  I'm just waiting to see a plane that has more guns than actual aircraft parts.  

Well now you're  just giving them ideas

XD

[Box of Stardust]

8 minutes ago, GillyMonster said:

That seems ok to me.  I'm just waiting to see a plane that has more guns than actual aircraft parts.  

 

This actually has 2 less guns than TFD 2.1.

 

Meet VulcanStar.

 

[Piatzin]

1 minute ago, Box of Stardust said:

 

This actually has 2 less guns than TFD 2.1.

 

Meet VulcanStar.

 

Agh whyyyyy XD

[goduranus]

31 minutes ago, dundun92 said:

@Box of Stardust this is the performance I would get from my PC 

I think it's fine as long as the timer flashes green some of the time, almost nobody could keep it green all the time.

@dundun92 you still building a plane for Hojoz' CFC? We're waiting on a few more planes to get started.

Edited March 16, 2018 by goduranus

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, goduranus said:

@dundun92 you still building a plane for Hojoz' CFC? We're waiting on a few more planes to get started.

Yes, later today or tomorrow it should be done.

18 minutes ago, Box of Stardust said:

 

This actually has 2 less guns than TFD 2.1.

 

Meet VulcanStar.

 

Eek. RUN FOR IT! AGH!