SQUAD

KSP Weekly: Looking Forward to a New Year!

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The new parts don't look great. They're a botched revamp, just like the 0.21 Duna Revamp. They are generic, homogenous, without character. They are boring, flat, uninteresting. Every part looks almost the same. They are inconsistent with Porkalike and Novalike parts, and they are unnecessary. There are a few Nova-era parts which turned out bad, like the Poodle, Mainsail, and Rockomax Decoupler. But for the most part, every part had something unique about it, and something consistent about it. The texturing was more subtle, without massive inexplicable shading on the tankbutts (which, if they're going to make an attempt to look like real tanks, should be a lot more curved). If I wanted flat, featureless fuel tanks I'd download Procedural Parts.

I wouldn't be nearly as upset as I am if these were optional. If they were only with Making History, or if they were a mod. But whoever is in charge of the art for these parts is not making parts which are better than the original NovaSilisko parts.

These parts are only going to make me want to use Ven's Revamp more, not less. Squad needs to hire an artist who actually understands how to make nice parts which are consistently style. KSP has always had a problem whenever a new artist has come onboard, they have tended to build parts in a new style rather than trying to remain consistent with the available good parts. A few artists have been the exception, most of Claira's work, most of Bac9's work, and parts of Porkjet's work, maintain the status quo while bringing about good or better content than the parts that inspired them.

The art direction for KSP is baffling. It needs to pick a style that actually looks good and stick with it. Porkjet's style is the obvious best choice. It is relatively clean, but still uses interesting proportions and flavor which keeps significant details of the original part while bringing their quality upwards.

Look at the comparison between Porkjet's aircraft parts and C7's aircraft parts. They look like the same part, but upgraded from the low quality 2000s-like to 2010s graphics. Many of the same details are preserved. This isn't true of the new parts.

But even if you disagree that the parts have to resemble the old parts, there's still some problems with the models. The decouplers and stack separators of different sizes are difficult to tell apart, a problem especially on the parts list. Each of the decouplers and separators as they are now are distinct models. You can tell pretty easily that they are different sizes, even when there are no size cues. The differing surface features of the Rockomax tanks allowed for a variety in the appearance of a craft. While functionally, two x18 tanks is the same as a single x32, they look different, and that's important.

The new tanks also don't look consistent with the rockomax engines in shading, specularity, or color scheme. While I suspect there is a plan to redevamp those engines, they must be done together or not at all.

The constant use of, well, let me show you in the picture.

tumblr_inline_p23s5hobrD1rr2wit_540.png

The lower left picture, why are those 12-cell regions on the edge shaded? it's clearly flat, there's not even a normal map to show otherwise, so why is there shading there? This is a feature on many of these newer parts (it's also one of the few annoying things on Porkjet's parts). It doesn't look realistic, it isn't a feature on any Nova-era parts, and it doesn't look good. So why is it there? (This is a problem to a much lesser extent on the new 1.25m monoprop tank.) There's texture shading, but no normal map. Or at least, the normal map isn't strong enough to correspond with either the amount of dirt that should be collected in there, or the amount of shading that should be there.

The new shrouds are boring and not consistent with the cargo fairings, but they're not a disaster, especially since they're not replacing better parts. New fairing textures are also nice, they look quite a bit better than what we have now.

The toroidal tank isn't bad, though it looks a bit too bright given that the color is meant to be yellow mylar, not gold. And the fact that it matches those new radial tanks shown earlier means that it's good enough.

I am not opposed to the use of black/white striping on the Rockomax tanks, and I do think white is probably a better color for them than grey or silver. Why not include a few more textures for tanks?

Overall my main complaint is not that the original rocket parts are good, but that they are better than these mediocre devamps. And I believe KSP deserves better than what really just looks half-assed compared to what is currently in the game.

I do not mean to offend the artist who made these (it looks like RoverDude's art still) but I do intend to criticize their art.

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9 minutes ago, GregroxMun said:

snip

I'm sorry, but almost anything is better than "oil drum."

10 minutes ago, GregroxMun said:

These parts are only going to make me want to use Ven's Revamp more, not less.

I'm still sort of baffled than they never bought that mod.

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4 hours ago, SQUAD said:
Several parts that we have been showing off in the past months will be included for free in this update. Some of these are:

Whaatttttt?! :0.0:

Please excuse me while I go get a towel to wipe up the puddle of drool...

2 hours ago, Vanamonde said:

(sigh) *beats head on desk*

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27 minutes ago, HebaruSan said:

What does that mean?

I think he means the circle of truncated wedges around the outer part of the top of the engine that will be hidden when the engine is attached to anything above it.

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3 hours ago, GregroxMun said:

It doesn't look realistic

But the fact that the Kerbals are short, almost caricatured, green men doesn't ruin the realism? It's that the parts aren't textured or colored to your liking that ruins the immersion for you. Well I don't mean to offend you, but I do mean to criticize your way of thinking, at least when it comes to the thoughts you expressed in your post.

 

Now, in an unrelated topic, VERY excited to hear about the console release date. Looking forward to getting back into the game after many months away. I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that us console peasants who are too busy, too broke or too apathetic for a computer are very appreciative for the much needed update (read: re-release). Definitely going to be logging some serious time catching back up as well as checking out the new-to-console features included in 1.2.2. Keep up the good work.

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Yes yes yes! New stock parts! I’m getting making history anyway, but I’m really glad to see Stock is still having time put into it. The new decouplers look great especially.

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1 hour ago, Frozen_Heart said:

How does that new vacuum engine compare with the Poodle stats wise?

The balance elves are running through all of the new parts even as we speak :wink:  

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I welcome the idea of an updated and more unified appearance and a choice of different skins etc.

I agree that there could be an issue with identifying the different separators and decouplers in the parts list.  So how about using different coloured arrows for each size?  It won't change models at all, or the overall appearance much, but would help with identification a bit.

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Great stuff @SQUAD, loving the new textures!!!

Could you also add a completely light grey fairing pretty please, like NASA and spaceX are using for isntance (potentially with a toggle to put your flag on)?

 

Edited by Yakuzi

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5 hours ago, PowerstrokeGuy1 said:

But the fact that the Kerbals are short, almost caricatured, green men doesn't ruin the realism?

No.  This is not an excuse.  Stop using it people.  He's criticizing unrealistic shadows generated from geometry which apparently isn't there.  This sort of attention to detail in art is used in everything from photo-realism to Tom and Jerry.  It's independent of how realistic a work is trying to be.

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2 hours ago, RoverDude said:

The balance elves are running through all of the new parts even as we speak :wink:  

I wonder if the balance elves could be running through some of the old parts as well :wink:

 

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Happy new year every one

At last, the hideous Rockalmax decoupler is gone. !

More seriously. You show new skins for various parts. Do they replace the current ones or is there a system to switch the skin of a part or are they specific parts ?

Thx

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48 minutes ago, Warzouz said:

You show new skins for various parts. Do they replace the current ones or is there a system to switch the skin of a part or are they specific parts ?

I wouldn't worry about it to much.  If so, I'm sure a gracious modder will fix the bug that allows the old 2.5m parts to still exist in the game.

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42 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

I wouldn't worry about it to much.  If so, I'm sure a gracious modder will fix the bug that allows the old 2.5m parts to still exist in the game.

Yeah, I suppose so. There are greate mods that adds various skins (or shape) for a part. Stock KSP would get much of such a feature.

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The new parts and skins look great! No one will hear me complaining about the way the top edge of an engine looks. Especially after said engine is mounted and you can't see ANYTHING !

What I will complain about is if the Kerbodyne tanks don't get new skins.

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Am a fan of the new parts. I do agree with some of Gregox's gripes though.

To the decoupler thing, maybe some consistent color coding thing might work. IDK.

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6 hours ago, Warzouz said:

More seriously. You show new skins for various parts. Do they replace the current ones or is there a system to switch the skin of a part or are they specific parts ?

The plan is to hide the legacy parts so old ships and craft files still work, but we avoid cluttering the GUI with outdated versions of the parts.  So the new ones will necessarily have different names to prevent conflicts.

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18 hours ago, PowerstrokeGuy1 said:

But the fact that the Kerbals are short, almost caricatured, green men doesn't ruin the realism? It's that the parts aren't textured or colored to your liking that ruins the immersion for you. Well I don't mean to offend you, but I do mean to criticize your way of thinking, at least when it comes to the thoughts you expressed in your post.

 

Now, in an unrelated topic, VERY excited to hear about the console release date. Looking forward to getting back into the game after many months away. I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that us console peasants who are too busy, too broke or too apathetic for a computer are very appreciative for the much needed update (read: re-release). Definitely going to be logging some serious time catching back up as well as checking out the new-to-console features included in 1.2.2. Keep up the good work.

Kerbals don't ruin the realism because realism isn't actually what I put on the highest priority. The reason I bring up realism is because it may serve as a counterargument to anyone who would argue that the new parts are good because they are realistic.

In fact I really rather like "charicatures" as you put it. Parts which have somewhat exaggerated proportions add character to the part and the game, and makes it look interesting.

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2 hours ago, RoverDude said:

The plan is to hide the legacy parts so old ships and craft files still work, but we avoid cluttering the GUI with outdated versions of the parts.  So the new ones will necessarily have different names to prevent conflicts.

Can we have an option to show the old parts if we want?

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On 1/5/2018 at 3:41 PM, SQUAD said:

Other expansion parts also need tailoring to fit into the game alongside core parts, or to make using them “as intended” less of a Manley-level endeavor.

I read that as "We are going to nerf everything."  I want MOAR Manley level endeavors! :cool:

I agree with Greg on some of his points.  The decouplers, and the shrouds are going to look the same on the parts list.  That Monoprop toroidal tank looks exactly like the LFO toroidal tank we already have... But I totally disagree about porkjet looking better than the nova style artwork. *ducks incoming space potato*

Can we get the old LV-1 landing leg back please?

Jokes aside, I'm looking forward to "The new stuff"

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13 minutes ago, MrChumley said:

The decouplers, and the shrouds are going to look the same on the parts list.  That Monoprop toroidal tank looks exactly like the LFO toroidal tank we already have.

As long as the displayed name in the description box is labeled similarly as in the screenshot below, I don't think it will be that confusing.  Not to mention there are already several ways to filter parts, such as by diameter or direct search.

Heatshield%20uniformity%20example_zpspt7unlq4.jpg

 

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FYI - there is no toroidal monoprop tank - that's an LFO tank :P  I think there may have been a typo in the KSP Weekly.  I redid the toroidal to replace the old ROUND-8 so it would be more consistent with the new capsule and spherical LFO tanks.

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On 2018-01-05 at 7:36 PM, GregroxMun said:

@gregroxMun

Each to their own.  Personally I was happy with the original pieces and I am happy with the new ones.  For me function is far more important than form.  For me It seems wasteful to watch them redo parts 2-3 times because a couple of forum users are picky when instead they could have created 2-3 new parts but they know their business better than I do so I respect their decision.

Also your response is pretty scathing.  At the end of the day this is a game I purchased 4 years ago for $30.  I have played over 300 hours so for me I have gotten great entertainment for $0.10 an hour.  I can’t possibly criticize the designers as I can’t think of any cheaper entertainment that has also educated me. 

So way to be squad.  You have created a unique genre totally different from the literally 1,000s of games that came before.  Keep up the good work.

 

PS. If an electric propeller made it into the update that allowed long distance flights over Duna that would be amazing.  Kerbal and Laythe are fun to cruise in planes and Duna would be too.  Folding wings would be awesome too or (fingers crossed) another planet with an oxygen atmosphere....

 

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