The Go-Anywhere*) Vessel, again

[Laie]

There's lots of SSTA kind of vessels ("Single Stage to Anywhere") though usually with some asterisks. "Anywhere but Eve" is certain, but there's lots of supposed SSTAs that can't even get to Moho or struggle with the atmosphere of Duna (of all places).

The point of this challenge is for you to show off your SSTAs and see them ranked according to an somewhat arbitrary but (I hope) sensible system. Basically, the most lighweight vessel that can go to the mostest places wins.

The minimum requirement to enter this challenge is a vessel that can land on several celestial bodies outside Kerbin SOI, and return to the surface of Kerbin. ISRU is not only allowed but expected. Mod craft are OK, within reason.

Bonus multipliers:

• Kerbin SSTO: if you need boosters to launch from Kerbin, that's perfectly alright. After all, you can easily recover and re-equip the vessel once you return. But if you can SSTO from Kerbin, you may apply a 0.95 multiplier. (If part of the vessel has to remain in orbit that's fine, a SSTO shuttle will do)
• Bodies:
  • Laythe: 0.95
  • Tylo: 0.9
  • both Laythe and Tylo: 0.8
  • Eeloo: 1.1 if you can't get to Eeloo (or can't refuel there)
  • Moho: 1.2 if you can't get to Moho
  • Duna: 1.5 if you can't handle it
• Moho-in-one: 0.9 multiplier if you can get from Kerbin SOI directly to Moho without refueling on Gilly.
• no worries ISRU: if you happen to land on an extremely poor ore deposit, on Eeloo, in the shade, and your ISRU rig still "just works", that's worth a 0.8 multiplier
• it's good for something (either passengers or science):
  • 0.9 if you carry a science package (one of each experiment)
  • 0.8 if the science package is on a deployable rover (cumulative!)
  • 0.9 if you can carry at least six Kerbals
• short transfers:
  • 0.9 if the final Kerbin->Jool burn lasts under 5 minutes (never mind if you periapsis-kick before, or start from Minmus: only the duration of the actual transfer burn matters).
  • 0.8 if that burn happens in less than 2 minutes.
• quick start:
  • 0.9 if you can go from launch to Ike or Gilly without first refueling in Kerbin SOI.
  • 0.85 if you can even make it to a Joolian moon.
• part count:
  • 0.9 if you keep it under 70 parts.
  • 1.1 if it's more than 150 parts.
• VTOL:
  • I'm seeing mostly planes and fully understand why. But most bodies have no air, so the vessel comes in backwards and eventually has to fall over like a chopped tree. Launches tend to depend on a fortuitous bump and can be quite dangerous. I'll award a 0.8 modifier (experimental, subject to change) to any vessel that can either VTOL or has another good solution to that problem. Must work on any airless body it can land on.

Scoring:

Take the mass of your fully fueled craft, and apply all multipliers you qualify for. If you have a 100t Kerbin SSTO that can visit both Laythe and Tylo, that would be 100 * 0.95 * 0.8 = 76t. Lowest score wins.

Whether "fully fueled" includes ore depends on how you use the vessel. Be honest!

Submission guide, do's and dont's:

I'm not interested in a detailed mission report of your tour, but in the vessel you built to make it. Most of your craft's abilities will be obvious from looks and stats, so a handful select screenshots showing off the craft and how it works will usually suffice. Data readouts are welcome. I may ask for proof if some feat strikes me as incredible, but by and large I will take your word for it.

If you use a combination of nukes and ordinary engines, please include a small chart detailing TWR and dV for relevant fuel/oxidizer usage profiles. Especially if you need to carry oxidizer to the destination.

Modded entries will be OK, including vastly superior engines (I'll point these out in the leaderboard of course). But be aware that you cannot count on me recognizing them. Especially for engines, please give a short explanation of how they compare to stock parts.

Please refrain from excessive gravity assistery. The whole point of ISRU is that one doesn't need to do that kind of thing.

 

------------------------

Marschig - 27.9 - a pretty straightforward Mk2 flounder, high dV, capable of everywhere but Tylo.

sdj64 - 158 - with an oversized, many-part mothership carrying three deployable sub-vessels. Good-looking, and well thought out nonetheless.

Wanderfound - 75 -  a rather stubby MK3 plane that can do science anywhere but Tylo.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Laie

[Marschig]

https://kerbalx.com/Marschig/Cruise-Plane-Mk2  https://imgur.com/a/bvEHK

49.836 t
SSTO 0.95
Bodies: Laythe 0.95
Moho-in-one: 0.9
Science Package 0.9
Six Kerbals 0.9
Quick Start to Joolian Moon 0.85
63 parts 0.9

49.836*0.95*0.95*0.9*0.9*0.9*0.85*0.9=25.083

 

[sevenperforce]

If I use a launch system (lander/ISRU kid with dedicated orbital tug station), can I still get the SSTO bonus for launching the lander by itself? 

[Frozen_Heart]

I'm guessing K-Drive powered vessels are not allowed for this one...

[sdj64]

I'll submit the one I was flying when I saw this challenge.  Not made for the points, obviously, due to its mass and part count.  But it does check just about all of the boxes.

Mass: 714 tons,  Parts: 425

Horizontal takeoff rocket SSTO, can make it to Minmus from Kerbin, Tylo and Laythe capable, can go anywhere but Eve. 

3 science packages, each on a deployable craft, and carries 40 Kerbals.

Needs a Mun gravity assist to get to Minmus for the first refueling, but after that you can go anywhere without assists.  Has 1.3 TWR full, so the burn to Jool is very quick.

ISRU is fuel cell powered and goes extremely quickly with 10 or more engineers on board.  Ironically, it only runs out of electricity when the ore is very high concentration, because the converter uses it all up...

Claiming every bonus except "quick start".

714*0.95*0.8*0.9*(0.8)^3*0.9*0.8*0.8*1.1 = 158

 

It is rather hard to land. Normally, it can tail-land, and then tip over softly with the help of some aerospikes under the nose.  On Kerbin and Laythe it can reenter and land like a plane.  On Duna it works, just open the cargo bays to keep the drag in front and enter backwards.  Taking off uses the nose aerospikes to get it off the ground.  I keep discovering minor things wrong with it (latest: forgot solar panels on the mini-lander) so it hasn't actually been anywhere other than Minmus yet, but that's how I plan to do it.  I have tested the tail land tip over, and reentry and flying, on Kerbin.

 

Stats in the VAB:

Spoiler

 

Edited January 12, 2018 by sdj64

[Jetski]

17 hours ago, sdj64 said:

I'll submit the one I was flying when I saw this challenge.  Not made for the points, obviously, due to its mass and part count.  But it does check just about all of the boxes.

Mass: 714 tons,  Parts: 425

Horizontal takeoff rocket SSTO, can make it to Minmus from Kerbin, Tylo and Laythe capable, can go anywhere but Eve. 

3 science packages, each on a deployable craft, and carries 40 Kerbals.

Needs a Mun gravity assist to get to Minmus for the first refueling, but after that you can go anywhere without assists.  Has 1.3 TWR full, so the burn to Jool is very quick.

ISRU is fuel cell powered and goes extremely quickly with 10 or more engineers on board.  Ironically, it only runs out of electricity when the ore is very high concentration, because the converter uses it all up...

Claiming every bonus except "quick start".

714*0.95*0.8*0.9*(0.8)^3*0.9*0.8*0.8*1.1 = 158

 

It is rather hard to land. Normally, it can tail-land, and then tip over softly with the help of some aerospikes under the nose.  On Kerbin and Laythe it can reenter and land like a plane.  On Duna it works, just open the cargo bays to keep the drag in front and enter backwards.  Taking off uses the nose aerospikes to get it off the ground.  I keep discovering minor things wrong with it (latest: forgot solar panels on the mini-lander) so it hasn't actually been anywhere other than Minmus yet, but that's how I plan to do it.  I have tested the tail land tip over, and reentry and flying, on Kerbin.

 

Stats in the VAB:

  Hide contents

 

That is a really cool craft.  I admire your ambition

 

[Laie]

On 1/11/2018 at 4:17 PM, sevenperforce said:

If I use a launch system (lander/ISRU kid with dedicated orbital tug station), can I still get the SSTO bonus for launching the lander by itself? 

You mean, a ISRU vessel that can go to most places, plus a detachable shuttle for some of the more difficult destinations? Where the "big rig" can't reasonably return/relaunch from Kerbin, but the shuttle can? Yes, that will still qualify for the Kerbin SSTO bonus.

On 1/11/2018 at 4:47 PM, Frozen_Heart said:

I'm guessing K-Drive powered vessels are not allowed for this one...

Of course not.

[Laie]

On 1/10/2018 at 7:58 PM, Marschig said:

Cruise Plane Mk2

49.836 t
SSTO 0.95
Bodies: Laythe 0.95
Moho-in-one: 0.9
Science Package 0.9
Six Kerbals 0.9
Quick Start to Joolian Moon 0.85
63 parts 0.9

 

49.836*0.95*0.95*0.9*0.9*0.9*0.85*0.9=25.083

Well, that's a solid SSTA, and much more capable than most similar sized so-called SSTAs that I've seen shown around. I think it even could, just barely, land on Tylo as well. Not that I encourage you to do it: I wouldn't like to award points for a feat that strains the design to it's very limits. But the thought is intriguing nonetheless.

I've subtracted one modifier because passengers and science were not supposed to be cumulative; sorry about that, but then again, I'm glad that this has been caught on the very first submission.

Edited January 13, 2018 by Laie

[Laie]

On 1/12/2018 at 1:32 AM, sdj64 said:

I'll submit the one I was flying when I saw this challenge.  Not made for the points, obviously, due to its mass and part count.  But it does check just about all of the boxes.

That's the spirit! (seriously, I hope noone builds a craft specifically to this challenge)

Of course, this goes way past SSTA into the mothership realm. Still adding it to the OP,  just to get you some eyeballs.

[Marschig]

1 hour ago, Laie said:

(seriously, I hope noone builds a craft specifically to this challenge)

Yes, but the craft was slightly modified under the conditions. For example, by the condition "one of each experiment", the SC-9001 module was installed instead of the scanner M4435, with which the ore was easier to find.

2 hours ago, Laie said:

I think it even could, just barely, land on Tylo as well.

I'm not sure. Maybe, but this requires very precise planning. I have another SSTO, that can easily land on Tylo. But it weight 320t, I'll show it later, when prepare materials to show.

Edited January 13, 2018 by Marschig

[Wanderfound]

Refuelled in orbit to demonstrate range, but easily able to go direct from KSC to Minmus to refuel itself.

 

 

 

Not enough for KSC-Moho direct or Eve, but should comfortably do everywhere else. A score of 54 or so if I've got it figured right.

109.610t

Laythe and Tylo, 0.8

No worries ISRU, 0.8

Science package, 0.9

Quick start, 0.9

It might be able to hit Moho from Minmus, but I haven't included those. And it could be easily tweaked to add a few extra passengers.

Album at https://imgur.com/a/zmYzg

Craft file at https://www.dropbox.com/s/l8x0rjyrs9axydc/Traveller.craft?dl=0

Edited January 14, 2018 by Wanderfound

[Laie]

On 1/14/2018 at 6:17 AM, Wanderfound said:

Not enough for KSC-Moho direct or Eve, but should comfortably do everywhere else. A score of 54 or so if I've got it figured right.

109.610t

Laythe and Tylo, 0.8

No worries ISRU, 0.8

Science package, 0.9

Quick start, 0.9

It might be able to hit Moho from Minmus, but I haven't included those. And it could be easily tweaked to add a few extra passengers.

Minmus-Moho is a good 5km/s, your vessel should be able to do that with about 30sec worth of oxidizer for the final 400m/s. Tight, but not incredibly so.

Judging from the screenshots, you should have more than 3km/s in LKO, which I guess would take you to Laythe.

However, I don't see how it could possibly land on Tylo. Rapiers alone are good for perhaps 1100m/s, with some tweaking and adding nukes to fit I get to 1500m/s of sufficient TWR. That seems to be wholly inadequate. I'm accounting 2500m/s for a risky landing... or is that wrong?

Also, I'm curious as to how a fuel-cell powered ISRU rig can qualifiy for "no worries". I'd expect it to run out of juice if the supply is poor enough, but if there's some quirk or oddity why it would work anyway, I'd really like to know. My vessels carry 20+RTGs and it would be great if I could do without.

Final question, why the lone Panther? Is it really needed for takeoff, or mostly a cruise extender, or...?

[Wanderfound]

15 hours ago, Laie said:

Minmus-Moho is a good 5km/s, your vessel should be able to do that with about 30sec worth of oxidizer for the final 400m/s. Tight, but not incredibly so.

Judging from the screenshots, you should have more than 3km/s in LKO, which I guess would take you to Laythe.

However, I don't see how it could possibly land on Tylo. Rapiers alone are good for perhaps 1100m/s, with some tweaking and adding nukes to fit I get to 1500m/s of sufficient TWR. That seems to be wholly inadequate. I'm accounting 2500m/s for a risky landing... or is that wrong?

 

Nope, you're right; I thought I could get away with a long nuke burn with a RAPIER kick just before touchdown, but there isn't enough oxidiser.

 

Also, I'm curious as to how a fuel-cell powered ISRU rig can qualifiy for "no worries". I'd expect it to run out of juice if the supply is poor enough, but if there's some quirk or oddity why it would work anyway, I'd really like to know. My vessels carry 20+RTGs and it would be great if I could do without.

There's one RTG stashed in the bay to cover non-mining power needs, BTW. The fuel cells and radiators are turned off except when mining/refining.

I normally base my mining rigs on fuel cells like this; I'm yet to hit a situation where they were drawing more fuel than they produced, but I don't normally mine in hyper-low concentrations. Dunno.

 

Final question, why the lone Panther? Is it really needed for takeoff, or mostly a cruise extender, or...?

It can take off and fly on four engines, but it does it much more comfortably with the extra boost from the fifth jet. The super-gimballing ability of the Panther makes it especially suited to mounting offline from the main axis; it's set up so that the Panther thrust goes through CoM at maximum gimbal.

Replacing the Panther with a fifth RAPIER would add mass, create mounting hassles, reduce low-speed thrust and not significantly improve maximum speed.

 

PS: on taking it out for another spin, it could still use a little tweaking. Boosting the max deflection on the canards to 150% makes it a bit more maneuverable without causing any instability, and shifting the rear gear back a whisker would improve ground handling on bumpy terrain.

 

[Laie]

@Wanderfound: for all my negativity and poking around, I actually like your vessel. There's lots of detail (like the low-G VTOL capability) making it obvious that it wasn't patched together in a lazy hour. Adding to the OP with the boni I deem applicaple (-Tylo, -NoWorries, +Moho-in-one).

Edited January 16, 2018 by Laie

[Wanderfound]

 

Album at https://imgur.com/a/A0vYO

Craft file at https://www.dropbox.com/s/zb1b8issm50aio9/Traveller Long.craft?dl=0

150.845t

Laythe, 0.95

Moho-in-one, 0.9

Passengers, 0.9

Science package, 0.9

Quick start, 0.9

[Kergarin]

May I take part even without an *) ? 

I will have to add the data next week, but it will not do a good score, because it weights more than 1,200t 

Edit:

Wieght: 1,627.287t

Modifiers:

Kerbin SSTO: 0.95

• Bodies:
  • both Laythe and Tylo: 0.8
• no worries ISRU: 0.8
• it's good for something 
  • 0.9 if you can carry at least six Kerbals
• part count:
  • 1.1 if it's more than 150 parts.

Score: 979.496

Oh, that's bad 

 

 

 

Edited January 31, 2018 by Kergarin

[Kergarin]

Maybe this one scores better.

Sorry for the really bad video, was originally just meant as a proof video  data will also follow next week

Maybe I should upgrade this one with a smaller eve lander, delete the Tylo lander and give it the ability to land on Tylo by itself  but time is short atm 

Wieght: 331.45t

Modifiers:

Kerbin SSTO:  0.95 

• Bodies:
  • both Laythe and Tylo: 0.8 ? (does this count? I'm using a disposable lander)
• no worries ISRU:  0.8 
• VTOL: 0.8 ? (well, it can VTOL on Gilly from a horizontal stand it can push up its nose on most bodys before launch. And it also has landing dampers and landing gear to stand on its tail plus the regular plane landing gear)

Score 161.217

at least a litte better 

 

Edited January 31, 2018 by Kergarin

[Laie]

22 hours ago, Kergarin said:

May I take part even without an *)

Can't blame you for showing this off at every opportunity, it was a major achievement. While 'm not too happy about the suborbital rendezvous, I can't say that it's any more dangerous or saveloading-prone than other stunts; cutting it tight and showing that you can get away with it is par for the course in about any challenge.

So of course you can submit it here, if you can be bothered to make a proper submission.

This particular challenenge is more about the engineering, so I'd like to see how your craft works (mostly straightforward in your case, but what's in that cargo bay?) and, if applicable, some dV calculations if you have mixed ISPs and need to use the engines in different ways.

@Wanderfound : I'm sorry to say that I have to insist on such a chart for your lengthened Traveller. You've got so little nuclear TWR that you will need to carry LF+O to many destinations (certainly Vall and Moho, arguably even the Mun) and while I did download the craft file and tweak fuel values a little, I won't attempt to draw a full flight schedule for your vessel. You'll have to show me.

 

 

[Laie]

Just so you know that I'm not being idle, here's my vessel almost landing on Tylo:

It's supposed to decelerate on nukes as much as possible (about 1550m/s surface velocity), then kick in the LF+O engines for a final squirt of a bit more than 2km/s, starting at local TWR 1.3.

Turns out that this is insufficient. In three tries I consistently ran out of oxidizer just a little short of the surface. Back to the drawing board!

 

[astrobond]

On 28/01/2018 at 12:35 PM, Laie said:

Just so you know that I'm not being idle, here's my vessel almost landing on Tylo:

It's supposed to decelerate on nukes as much as possible (about 1550m/s surface velocity), then kick in the LF+O engines for a final squirt of a bit more than 2km/s, starting at local TWR 1.3.

Turns out that this is insufficient. In three tries I consistently ran out of oxidizer just a little short of the surface. Back to the drawing board!

 

Remembers me my Tylo landing in the Jool 5 Challenge... that was really tight, and i had to make a lot of F9 keypress ;-) look at the fuel left... Tylo IS a hard part of the game !

 

[Kergarin]

On ‎27‎.‎01‎.‎2018 at 1:17 PM, Laie said:

Can't blame you for showing this off at every opportunity, it was a major achievement. While 'm not too happy about the suborbital rendezvous, I can't say that it's any more dangerous or saveloading-prone than other stunts; cutting it tight and showing that you can get away with it is par for the course in about any challenge.

So of course you can submit it here, if you can be bothered to make a proper submission.

This particular challenenge is more about the engineering, so I'd like to see how your craft works (mostly straightforward in your case, but what's in that cargo bay?) and, if applicable, some dV calculations if you have mixed ISPs and need to use the engines in different ways.

 

I'm sorry, that's the only thing I have to brag about

I have added the score to both entries. 
I don't have the dV infos, but I hope I will find time this weekend to add dome engineering details. Espacially the second one has some nice details.

Edited January 31, 2018 by Kergarin

[RedPandaz]

Can you add a crazy multiplier for Eve?

[Laie]

14 hours ago, RedPandaz said:

Can you add a crazy multiplier for Eve?

I deliberately didn't.

Tylo already poses the same problem (from the POV of challenge design) but on a smaller scale. If you look at the vessel I crashed, above, that one's capable of visiting basically every other destination on nukes alone. Using the rapier(1) in rocket mode comes in handy occasionally, but the only time I really need a significant amount of oxidizer is on Tylo. That destination comes at a significant increase in mass and overall complexity.

Eve would be the same, only much more so -- depending on what modifier I chose, the challenge either becomes "make an Eve SSTO" or "don't bother". By not setting an award for it, I chose the simplest way of saying that people shouldn't care.

Incidentally, the Tylo modifier seems to be too small to truly make up for the extra mass it requires. So if you want to score high under the rules I put forward, you probably shouldn't bother with Tylo, too.

(1) not literally a Rapier but the SXT "Sabre" engine whis is basically four Rapiers in a single 2.5m package.

[McBalsam]

Here's my first SSTE: Sotka I

More pictures in the imgur album:

Album a/dwxU7 will appear when post is submitted

The vessel has one Vector and two NERVs, and no air-breathing engines . It can reach LKO in single stage and land on Minmus comfortably for refuel. It can reach and land on all bodies (expect Eve). The cargo bay holds liquid fuel tanks, reaction wheels, batteries, ISRU, radiators and and an RTG (see imgur album). It can land on most bodies with just NERVs and has plenty of dV when fueled only with liquid fuel (see tables below). The two airbrakes on top of the Vector also double as heat shield when performing aerocapture/brake.

When out of fuel, it will tip on its tail and won't be aerodynamically stable. Having the front C7 adapter full (locked by default) will prevent tipping and keep the CoM in front of CoL (see imgur album).

Basic info

• Mass: 79,907
• Liquid fuel: 5,900
• Oxidizer: 5,060
• Cost: 106,265
• dv in LKO: ~1,700 m/s

dV profiles

	Lf	Ox	Mass	Thrust	dV
Full	5,900	5,060	79,907	1,120	4,888
Lf+Ox (Vector)	4,140	5,060	71,107	1,000	3,137
Lf only (post Vector burn NERV)	1,760	0	33,907	120	2,357
Lf only (NERV)	5,900	0	54,607	120	6,096

Selected TWR stats

	Lf only profile		Full
	Min TWR	Max TWR	Min TWR	Max TWR
Moho	0.81	1.77	5.19	11.55
Kerbin*	0.05	0.11	1.23	2.74
Mun	1.35	2.93	8.60	19.14
Duna*	0.71	1.54	4.72	10.49
Laythe*	0.14	0.30	1.63	3.63
Vall	0.95	2.07	6.08	13.52
Tylo	0.28	0.61	1.79	3.97
Eeloo	1.30	2.83	8.30	18.47
* Atmospheric

Scoring

• Mass: 79,907
• Kerbin SSTO: 0.95
• Bodies: 0.8 (all bodies except Eve)
• Moho-in-one: - (I haven't tested this yet. Might be possible)
• no worries ISRU: - (Drill-o-Matic Junior needs at least 2,5 % ore concentration)
• it's good for something - (good for nothing)
• short transfers: 0.8 (transfer burn to Jool in less than two minutes, but needs Laythe's gravity and atmosphere to capture and land)
• quick start: - (a good pilot might be able to get to Gilly or Ike, but I didn't try)
• part count: 0.9 (67 parts)
• VTOL: -

Multiplier: 0.5472

TOTAL SCORE: 43.73

 

Getting to Tylo

• Refuel on Bop or Pol and fill the C7's only with liquid fuel, giving you 1407 m/s for the NERVs.
• Lock all tanks with Lf+Ox.
• Use NERVs to transfer and capture to Tylo.
• In Tylo SOI unlock Lf+Ox tanks, giving you 2793 m/s for the Vector to circularize and land.

Suggested Jool-5 sequence

• Laythe-Vall-Bop-Tylo-Pol

Edited February 18, 2018 by McBalsam
formatting, added more scoring info

[Kernel Kraken]

This looks like a fun challenge, and I would enter in it, but I cannot make an SSTO, and much less an SSTA. I can probably make an SSTC, (Single stage to crash)