Which VR headset to get? [resolved]

[p1t1o]

So I've been saving small change for about 3.5 years and counted it up the other day and have approx £400 to waste on something frivolous and as it happens, VR goggle sets have come down to near-enough this price range.

The products leaders, as far as I can tell, break down to the Oculus Rift, The HTC Vive, and Acer's new "mixed-reality" set.

 

Performance-wise I have been unable to find much difference between them, I cant see any differences in technical specs that are obviously deal-breakers or game-changers.

Here are some pertinent points:

Oculus rift is associated with Facebook.

HTC Vive is associated with Steam.

Vive is a little heavier than the Rift.

Vive has slightly lower system requirements.

The Rifts hand-controllers look better. More ergonomic, more compact and with a greater variety of controls.

 

 

Thats literally the only easily-definable differences I could find. If there are differences in comfort or subtleties of motion-tracking, its hard to judge without trying them all (problematic).

Im not too worried about game compatibility (although Vive with the link to Steam seems like it ought to have an edge).

 

Anybody have anything to add? Opinions? Facts? Has anybody had the opportunity to try different sets for comparison?

 

Oh, and I should say, the 4th option is "not the right time to buy" - so the Vive will have the "Pro" version out later this year with much higher resolution. Which is great, but would probably need a new computer to get the most from, also it will be expensive. But it might drive down the price of the original model. I have also heard that the kit that made the Acer version possible, might spawn several other 3rd party models, which might be a better price-point too. But it does seem like the rift and vive are at a good price right now.

Any input appreciated because at this point I have no idea.

 

If I choose not to buy VR, I will get SSDs and more RAM instead.

Edited January 31, 2019 by p1t1o

[YNM]

I guess the hardest thing to choose something you wear isn't easy just by looking the specs. You should try them first if possible, with some activity that you're going to use as a benchmark. Much like buying prescription glasses or optical device (like bino / telescope) or even clothing - you don't know really if you haven't tried.

 

Lazy choice would be more SSD and RAM though, would be useful if better VRs and games come !

Edited January 25, 2018 by YNM

[invision]

id only consider it if you had a gtx 1070ti or 1080

 

 

[p1t1o]

2 hours ago, YNM said:

I guess the hardest thing to choose something you wear isn't easy just by looking the specs. You should try them first if possible, with some activity that you're going to use as a benchmark. Much like buying prescription glasses or optical device (like bino / telescope) or even clothing - you don't know really if you haven't tried.

Unfortunately getting to test each pair out is easier said than done. I think - if it came to a purchase - I would be happy to weigh as much evidence as possible and take a plunge. But evidence is skant, probably much because a lot of the differnce IS subjective as you say, which might mean that there isnt much between the options, which does make the choice a little less critical.

On the games front, Im pretty much already happy, since they are perfectly suited to flight simulators and they have been coding support into DCS (amongst others) for a while now and reports are excellent.

If any other games are supported, thats icing as far as I am concerned.

 

16 minutes ago, invision said:

id only consider it if you had a gtx 1070ti or 1080

Its a concern, as my card is a 970 - though coupled with a decent CPU it gets very workable benchmarks. I could spend this money on a new GPU, but then it would be largely moot until I next came into enough dough again (2020 looks good) and so SSD+RAM would be a higher priority. I stupidly skimped on RAM when building my current rig. (Tip-Top-Tip: dont do that.)

So basically, I may not be able to afford an upgrade for a while, but I can afford to upgrade 1 system now. Given that they are very high on my list of "wants", should that upgrade, given the current state of the art, be VR goggs?

[qzgy]

I've only had one experience with VR so far and that has been the HTC vive. (actually thats a lie. I also tried the Playstation VR headset but thats not relevant to this point). Knowing that, I did remember finding the hand controllers relatively intuitive and the overall weight not bad. So I would say its pretty good. Is it the best? I don't know.

[YNM]

Some "reviews" (more rambling) on HTC Vive and some other if they crop up :

Spoiler

 

 

[RizzoTheRat]

If you can get to any tech shows, university demo days, etc you might find you can have a go with one, eg News Scientist Live had some demos running on Vive's.  There's also some games places that have them running, there's a pub in London with a games room upstairs that includes a couple of HTC Vive's.

 

Personally I've only ever used the Rift DK2 and the Vive, and found the Vive better, but that's not that surprising as it was a production one vs a development Rift.  I get motion sickness playing first person shooters on a big monitor so I was pleasantly surprised how long I lasted in the Vive without feeling too bad. 

 

[JK_Kerbineer]

I have spent a lot of time using both, and I would personally recommend the Vive. It is highly immersive and realistic, and sure gives a bang for its buck. While the Rift also works perfectly fine, it does feel kind of cheesy and unrealistic.

[Dartguy]

I've never tried the Vive, or anything else besides the Oculus.  I can tell you that the Oculus is incredible for racing, which is just about all I do on the gaming PC.  I went from triple screens to Oculus and the difference in immersion is like night and day.  Going from one screen to 3 was a huge difference, the difference to the Oculus in infinitely more.

I have a R390 GPU and is runs it just fine.  The only thing I would worry about is the cost of upgrading your GPU, if needed, is very high now because of all the bitcoin mining.

[xendelaar]

Sorry for not answering your initial question but:

have you ever played VR games? I have, but only several hours. It was highly immersive, but also a bit tiresome. I wouldn't want to play this a whole evening for instance. Also, the fact that you're not able to realy walk in a shooter game, but have to teleport everytime, is for me a big no-no.

 

 

[p1t1o]

19 hours ago, xendelaar said:

Sorry for not answering your initial question but:

have you ever played VR games? I have, but only several hours. It was highly immersive, but also a bit tiresome. I wouldn't want to play this a whole evening for instance. Also, the fact that you're not able to realy walk in a shooter game, but have to teleport everytime, is for me a big no-no.

My main use will be flight simulators, so the lack of walking is a non-issue. The immersion in flight sims is reportedly a game changer, and I readily believe it, it does seem better suited to that kind of simulation than an FPS.

[0111narwhalz]

Get both and send me the one you don't like. 

[Dartguy]

On 2/1/2018 at 5:59 AM, p1t1o said:

My main use will be flight simulators, so the lack of walking is a non-issue. The immersion in flight sims is reportedly a game changer, and I readily believe it, it does seem better suited to that kind of simulation than an FPS.

I am sure flight sims will be the same as racing sims (which is all I do), if not even more immersive.  I tried TrackIR a few years ago and after about 5 minutes, I had a bad headache.  With Oculus, no ill effects and the realism is incredible.  Only drawbacks are not being able to see the keyboard and the resolution is not where it needs to be, yet.  But that is easily forgotten once the adrenaline kicks in.

[p1t1o]

2 minutes ago, Dartguy said:

I am sure flight sims will be the same as racing sims (which is all I do), if not even more immersive.  I tried TrackIR a few years ago and after about 5 minutes, I had a bad headache.  With Oculus, no ill effects and the realism is incredible.  Only drawbacks are not being able to see the keyboard and the resolution is not where it needs to be, yet.  But that is easily forgotten once the adrenaline kicks in.

I have TrackIR, its great, dont suffer any ill effects from it, its definitely a huge bonus for immersion, about the best you can get without going VR.

I have heard that the resolution is not quite up to the standard where you can look around a cockpit and read all the instruments naturally, but even with a HD monitor+TrackIR you still have to "lean in" to see them anyway, so its all positive gains and no drawbacks really.

 

HTC are releasing a "pro" version this year with almost double the resolution, which will be a great improvement. Of course there will be a price hike though.

I dont want to get stuck in the trap of "Ill get the pro when the price comes down next year" only to find that the "pro-pro" version is getting released...rinse and repeat.

In the absence of any hard data, it looks like I will skip VR for the immediate future and upgrade RAM+SSDs.

However, its bonus season (somehow Ive trained myself to always forget about bonuses so its always a nice surprise) soon so a coupla hundred quid might find its way into my wallet.

And then it looks like the HTC Vive is the likliest contender, mostly due to their association with Steam and the weird stories that are around about the founder of Oculus (and frankly, the "windows mixed reality" sets from Asus, Lenovo etc. look like budget copies of the Rift/Vive. Its hard to believe that external-sensor-free tracking will be as sharp as the others or that they would be superior in any other function).

[xendelaar]

20 hours ago, p1t1o said:

My main use will be flight simulators, so the lack of walking is a non-issue. The immersion in flight sims is reportedly a game changer, and I readily believe it, it does seem better suited to that kind of simulation than an FPS.

I also played a flight simulator and I have to admit that worked perfectly! man.. It felt like i could reach out and touch the interface. Only bad thing was crashing... when that happened, the camera would move out of the cockpit and circle around the plane, which caused an instant headache. But this only happened because the software wasn't really made for VR.. It used a mod for this.

I wish you lots of fun with your new investment. I also wish there was a way to make VR applicable for RPG shooters (Fallout, Skyrim etc)... I don't see the benefits of VR for KSP at the moment though...

[p1t1o]

2 minutes ago, xendelaar said:

I also played a flight simulator and I have to admit that worked perfectly! man.. It felt like i could reach out and touch the interface. Only bad thing was crashing... when that happened, the camera would move out of the cockpit and circle around the plane, which caused an instant headache. But this only happened because the software wasn't really made for VR.. It used a mod for this.

I wish you lots of fun with your new investment. I also wish there was a way to make VR applicable for RPG shooters (Fallout, Skyrim etc)... I don't see the benefits of VR for KSP at the moment though...

I can see VR being awesome for KSP, but it would require a lot of re-working how the camera works I think. Its easy to forget that VR goggs are essentially a high-res 3D monitor, which would be worth a lot for most games, even if there was no motion capture. 

I can tell you that the Vive comes bundled in most places with Fallout4VR  

And I think there is a mod to make Skyrim work with VR, Im not sure...

 

I wonder - you know those 3D bluerays of movies that you get for 3D televisions? Possible to watch them in 3D on VR goggs?

 

[xendelaar]

15 minutes ago, p1t1o said:

I can see VR being awesome for KSP, but it would require a lot of re-working how the camera works I think. Its easy to forget that VR goggs are essentially a high-res 3D monitor, which would be worth a lot for most games, even if there was no motion capture. 

I don't agree with you one this one. As I recall, if the camera is rotating while you're standing still... your brain will literally flip because it doesn't understand what is happening. This will result in an instant headache. That's what I noticed during the flight simulator. SO when you're plotting a course and rotate the camera to see where your orbit is heading, things will get messy. Maybe your brain can get used to this… I don’t know..
hmm… come to think of it.. you could use the kerbal as a fixed viewing point and have the internal dashboard as a tool for plotting courses.. for instance.. you could look on a large 2D screen in the cockpit to plot your course? You’ll be the kerbal the whole trip… damn… I want VR goggles as well now… darn you! It would be awesome to peform Eva tasks in Low orbit arount a moon/planet.

I haven't played the VR mods for skyrim or fallout though, so I don't know if it is any good.  

[p1t1o]

10 minutes ago, xendelaar said:

I don't agree with you one this one. As I recall, if the camera is rotating while you're standing still... your brain will literally flip because it doesn't understand what is happening. This will result in an instant headache. That's what I noticed during the flight simulator. SO when you're plotting a course and rotate the camera to see where your orbit is heading, things will get messy. Maybe your brain can get used to this… I don’t know..
hmm… come to think of it.. you could use the kerbal as a fixed viewing point and have the internal dashboard as a tool for plotting courses.. for instance.. you could look on a large 2D screen in the cockpit to plot your course? You’ll be the kerbal the whole trip… damn… I want VR goggles as well now… darn you! It would be awesome to peform Eva tasks in Low orbit arount a moon/planet.

I haven't played the VR mods for skyrim or fallout though, so I don't know if it is any good.  

Fallout is apparently a bespoke VR version so hopefully it will be quite slick. Oh and I think Doom ("new" doom) has a VR version too. It is slowly but surely entering the mainstream.

The headache thing is probably very specific to each person, Im unsure how it would work. I feel like if you remove the motion capture from your head, and just use it as a 3D "window" and use your "hands" with motion capture to manipulate objects, it could be of some use. But this is purest speculation.

 

KSP V2.0:

[xendelaar]

On ‎2‎-‎2‎-‎2018 at 3:56 PM, xendelaar said:

I don't agree with you one this one. As I recall, if the camera is rotating while you're standing still... your brain will literally flip because it doesn't understand what is happening. This will result in an instant headache. That's what I noticed during the flight simulator. SO when you're plotting a course and rotate the camera to see where your orbit is heading, things will get messy. Maybe your brain can get used to this… I don’t know..
hmm… come to think of it.. you could use the kerbal as a fixed viewing point and have the internal dashboard as a tool for plotting courses.. for instance.. you could look on a large 2D screen in the cockpit to plot your course? You’ll be the kerbal the whole trip… damn… I want VR goggles as well now… darn you! It would be awesome to peform Eva tasks in Low orbit arount a moon/planet.

I haven't played the VR mods for skyrim or fallout though, so I don't know if it is any good.  

just watched some PR video's of VR with Skyrim and to be honest... I was pretty amazed! Maybe I will buy one too

[Ich Dien]

I have a Rift CV1 at home and I've used a Vive extensively at work. 

The Vive has a slightly more FOV, is adjustable for glasses, has less things to plug into your PC and the tracking is much better with 2 sensors only,

The Rift is lighter, more comfortable, has ever so slightly better controllers, looks nicer and is significantly cheaper. You also get 5 free "games" in the bundle. 

Regardless of affiliations, the Rift works on SteamVR native (I have bought games labelled "Vive only", which work fine with the Rift*) and Revive, for running Oculus Home on Vive, looks pretty mature. I was able to buy Elite Dangerous on the Oculus Store and claim a Steam Key from the developer anyway.

I highly recommend VR for all simulations. The whole experience is magic. You won't regret either purchase. 

 

*The only caveat to this is Fallout 4 VR. seeing as Zenimax and Oculus have barely left the courtroom, Rift support in that AAAAAA title is pretty awful. 

Edited February 8, 2018 by Ich Dien

[p1t1o]

11 hours ago, Ich Dien said:

I have a Rift CV1 at home and I've used a Vive extensively at work. 

The Vive has a slightly more FOV, is adjustable for glasses, has less things to plug into your PC and the tracking is much better with 2 sensors only,

The Rift is lighter, more comfortable, has ever so slightly better controllers, looks nicer and is significantly cheaper. You also get 5 free "games" in the bundle. 

Regardless of affiliations, the Rift works on SteamVR native (I have bought games labelled "Vive only", which work fine with the Rift*) and Revive, for running Oculus Home on Vive, looks pretty mature. I was able to buy Elite Dangerous on the Oculus Store and claim a Steam Key from the developer anyway.

I highly recommend VR for all simulations. The whole experience is magic. You won't regret either purchase. 

 

*The only caveat to this is Fallout 4 VR. seeing as Zenimax and Oculus have barely left the courtroom, Rift support in that AAAAAA title is pretty awful. 

Dang, you've got one of those jobs. And by that I mean a job that people generally want.

The controllers are the thing driving my temptation towards the Rift.

But I think FoV and motion tracking trump more compact controllers with a couple extra buttons.

 

[xendelaar]

On ‎1‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 5:47 PM, p1t1o said:

So I've been saving small change for about 3.5 years and counted it up the other day and have approx £400 to waste on something frivolous and as it happens, VR goggle sets have come down to near-enough this price range.

The products leaders, as far as I can tell, break down to the Oculus Rift, The HTC Vive, and Acer's new "mixed-reality" set.

 

Performance-wise I have been unable to find much difference between them, I cant see any differences in technical specs that are obviously deal-breakers or game-changers.

Here are some pertinent points:

Oculus rift is associated with Facebook.

HTC Vive is associated with Steam.

Vive is a little heavier than the Rift.

Vive has slightly lower system requirements.

The Rifts hand-controllers look better. More ergonomic, more compact and with a greater variety of controls.

 

 

Thats literally the only easily-definable differences I could find. If there are differences in comfort or subtleties of motion-tracking, its hard to judge without trying them all (problematic).

Im not too worried about game compatibility (although Vive with the link to Steam seems like it ought to have an edge).

 

Anybody have anything to add? Opinions? Facts? Has anybody had the opportunity to try different sets for comparison?

 

Oh, and I should say, the 4th option is "not the right time to buy" - so the Vive will have the "Pro" version out later this year with much higher resolution. Which is great, but would probably need a new computer to get the most from, also it will be expensive. But it might drive down the price of the original model. I have also heard that the kit that made the Acer version possible, might spawn several other 3rd party models, which might be a better price-point too. But it does seem like the rift and vive are at a good price right now.

Any input appreciated because at this point I have no idea.

 

If I choose not to buy VR, I will get SSDs and more RAM instead.

Hey there  @p1t1o

 

I just like to necro this post and give my sincere apologies.. In a previous post in this thread, I said VR isn’t all that great for KSP.

I just installed the oculus rift on my pc and added Kerbal-VR to KSP. The game has real potentiaal in VR!

I’m currently upgrading the mod list with IVA can props so I can see all important reading inside the cockpit, since Kerbal VR only works with IVA. After that I will try to fly to the Mun. Sounds like a blast to me! 

 

Just wanted to let you know… Did you finally purchase a VR set?

[p1t1o]

On 8/29/2018 at 9:10 AM, xendelaar said:

Hey there  @p1t1o

 

I just like to necro this post and give my sincere apologies.. In a previous post in this thread, I said VR isn’t all that great for KSP.

I just installed the oculus rift on my pc and added Kerbal-VR to KSP. The game has real potentiaal in VR!

I’m currently upgrading the mod list with IVA can props so I can see all important reading inside the cockpit, since Kerbal VR only works with IVA. After that I will try to fly to the Mun. Sounds like a blast to me! 

 

Just wanted to let you know… Did you finally purchase a VR set?

Hey dude, thanks for the report!

In the end, no I didnt, I spent the money doing a significant upgrade to my PC - which to be honest, I probably need for a proper VR setup anyway.

That and HTC released the "Pro" version which deals with the few drawbacks of the "normal" version, and me being me, am now paralysed until the "pro" version comes down in price

 

[xendelaar]

good thing you invested in the upgrade.  while I'm pretty enthusiastic about the oculus rift, vr gaming to me still feels more little a nice gimmick than a must have.

still.. kerbalVR mod is really a cool experience. with the proper interior mods you can even push on the switches inside the cockpit with you touch controllers. so I'm able to fly the vessel completely from within the cockpit.  that's really awesome!

[p1t1o]

Update time.

Its been a few moons since I last thought about VR, but very recently I had a pleasant surprise. I had paid off my student loan several months ago, but due to a quirk of how student loans are run, I ended up overpaying by a decent sum of money, which was recently funnelled back into my bank account.

So obviously I immediately bought an HTC Vive Pro - second hand from eBay, managed to get an ok deal.

 

What happened next you cry?

Took about, I dunno, 15 mins to get from unboxing to functioning VR setup. The installation was quite involved, but it mostly took care of itself, everything installed automatically, no issues with drivers or anything.

I wont go into detail about software or how the installation wizard works, thats not why you're here.

Long story short - first VR thing you see will likely be the SteamVR "home".

 

And let me tell you, immersion is total. Your old room disappears and you are somewhere else. Walking directly into your walls is a very real risk and even though you know, intellectually, not to do so, the temptation to wander is strong.

 

Obviously I havnt really even scratched the surface, I tried one or two things. Got a simple interior design program and tried modelling the apartment we are in the process of buying. Program was simple but damn, this is the future of interior design. 

This is the future.

 

How can I describe?

When you enter, say, a very large room or building when playing on a 2D monitor, cool its impressive and all...but you dont understand the difference it makes to have it be 3D and real-scale. Things look huge and far away, its a visceral effect, hardwired. When a butterfly flits past you on a 2D monitor, you notice and maybe are surprised "Ooh a butterfly". With 3D immersion, its more like "AHH WHAT THE $%&^&* WAS THAT?!?!?" because something just flew right past your ear. Its more than just a surprise or a cheap jump-scare, you actually jerk your head and start moving your hand up to brush whatever-it-was-that-nearly-touched-your-ear away.

 

 

There is SO much potential with this tech, and it actually works! There IS something in this life that does exactly what it says on the tin!

I havnt had a chance to really get to grips with it - my main reason for purchase is for hardcore flight simming and I really need a weekend to dedicate to starting that up, but I am confident that it is going to be an experience.

Am also looking forward to trying out Fallout, Skyrim and Senua's Sacrifice. I cant really be bothered with things like fruit ninja or beat hazard or whatever its called.

But even just things like chatrooms are a revelation. the SteamVR "home" (I forget what its actually called) literally has chat-ROOMS. EVeryone has a room, *I* have a room and you can invite people over or people can visit (all optional of course.)

 

 

 

Some points to note:

The damn thing requires 3 - count'em - 3 seperate power outlets, on top of all the ones that my PC, speakers, monitors etc. use, so that was a challenge.

Even for seated-VR, you still need a decent space, because the base stations still need you in their field-of view. But they are quite efficient and only one needs to be able to see you at any one time.

Standing or "room-scale" VR is exhausting. Before you know it you've been on your feet for 3 hours.

"Room scale" VR needs a LOT of room, mostly its not an option. (And frankly, even with the largest room scale setups, you still cant walk all that far.)

There arent actually that many decent games yet for VR, one or two AAA titles and a few pretty good bespoke VR games, but a lot of quite simplistic, casual or just trashy games.

Man, the big fat wire is a pain, but mostly you dont notice it (until you do) but the wireless addon is like, another £500. Thats a lot for a minor quality of life upgrade.

I thought the vive controllers were bulky and ugly, but guess what? It doesnt matter because you cant see them lol!

For a little while after using it, after removing the goggles, you are still careful try not to bump into objects that you cannot see, and try to reach for things without walking too far. Its weird.

I say you cant "see" the controllers, but you can, because most time they (or a version of them) are simulated for you exactly where they are in real space. Its accurate enough to be able to find and press buttons by seeing where they are in VR. Its very cool. For example, when you put the goggles on, obviously you cant see anything real. Except the controllers are like, right there! And they are real and you pick them up and well, did I say that immersion was total?

Resolution. Probably the weakpoint of the tech. You are staring at the screens from an inch distance, you'd need an absolute TON of pixels to bring that up to HD or 4K density of detail. Even with the Vive Pro's enhanced resolution, you can still perceive a little fuzziness, still see the pixels if you squint. There's a lot of room for improvement here, but having said that, resolution is not bad and the size of the virtual display is of course massive compared to the slice of vision that even a very large 2D monitor fills. Thats what all those pixels (1440*1600 per eye) are used to do.

Field of view is nothing to worry about. It is quoted I think as 110degrees, and what you see when you wear the goggs is a large circular aperture whcih fills almost your entire field. Only the very edge of peripheral vision is blacked out. Basically you hardly notice the deficit, it is effectively your entire field of vision.

 

 

FunnyStory^TM: My fiance tried it. But something weird happened. She didnt seem to have the natural knack of hand-eye coordination between visual input and controller. When using the controllers in 3D space, she used them more like a keyboard and mouse attached to a PC rather than using them as her actual hands. There seemed to be a disconnect between being "in" a simulation and "operating" a simulation using fancy tools. I think if she plays around with it for a few hours, it will "click" into place and she will suddenly become much more proficient, but watching her trying to manipulate menus was painful! And surprising, actually I had assumed that everyone would take instantly to it.

 

tl;dr - I had a nice windfall and bought an HTC Vive Pro. It lives up to the hype. This is the future. Even a true, goggle-less 3D monitor would not supercede this level of immersion, I cannot think of a device that would make this obsolete (apart from 100-year away tech like every surface [like, including the kettle, doorhandles etc.]  in your house is part of an active display), only improvements in resolution and ease of use.

 

 

Oh and one last thing - I have an nVidia GTX 970 GPU, the minimum spec listed on the HTC website and it runs perfectly smooth with everything I have gotten around to doing so far. Im sure I will find things to do that will tax the graphics harder, but there was certainly no massive FPS drain caused by powering the double-displays in the goggles, even with the Pro's resolution.

As long as you are above a certain - apparently reasonably low - threshhold, you definitely do not need huge graphics power to drive these.

Edited January 31, 2019 by p1t1o