Nertea

[1.8.x] Stockalike Station Parts Redux (Nov 7th)

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49 minutes ago, TriggeredSnake said:

I love this mod and all, but the IVA's definitely need some work. Most of them just have kerbals floating in mid air, glitched into walls and consoles. For example, the 1.25 and 2.5 meter centrifuges have kerbals glitched everywhere, and the 1.25 meter cupola for example has switches and controls floating in midair next to the kerbal like the IVA was very lazily produced. Also, the winston and volleyball inflatable modules have some of the worst IVA's I've seen in a while, an empty blob with a big thing in the center with 3 kerbals floating without seats, despite sitting in a seated position, and the big 2.5 meter observation window pod really lacks detail; it works fine, but it would be better with some kind of detail, maybe a plant in the middle or something. It's a shame that such a great mod has such bad unfinished IVAs.

IVAs are a pain in the rear to make for something that many players look at rarely or if all. You're new to the forums, so you may not realize that the predecessor to this mod had even plainer IVAs.

For something that the modder offers to us for free, I think that they're great. :-)

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I'm not sure why, but using any of the parts from this mod causes huge lag in the VAB (1.5) When I place down any of the parts (Or re textured stock one like the science lab) my memory usage maxes out and my game lags to a standstill.

I can provide logs if you want them, but I was just wondering if anyone else had this issue. 

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1 hour ago, TriggeredSnake said:

I love this mod and all, but the IVA's definitely need some work. Most of them just have kerbals floating in mid air, glitched into walls and consoles. For example, the 1.25 and 2.5 meter centrifuges have kerbals glitched everywhere, and the 1.25 meter cupola for example has switches and controls floating in midair next to the kerbal like the IVA was very lazily produced. Also, the winston and volleyball inflatable modules have some of the worst IVA's I've seen in a while, an empty blob with a big thing in the center with 3 kerbals floating without seats, despite sitting in a seated position, and the big 2.5 meter observation window pod really lacks detail; it works fine, but it would be better with some kind of detail, maybe a plant in the middle or something. It's a shame that such a great mod has such bad unfinished IVAs.

Considering the post above yours praises the IVAs, I would be interested in learning why you find them so terrible. I assume you did install the associated Near Future Props dependency? I just made a test "station" using every single habitable unit (requiring me to hire 70 additional Kerbals!) and every single one of them was sat properly in a seat, nothing was clipped through anything. There's obviously something not right with your install.

OT: Everyone's entitled to an opinion, but if you're gonna offer criticism try and be constructive about it instead of just ripping something to shreds with no suggestions as to how it might be improved, or even basic investigation that it's been properly experienced. Uninformed posts like this are how we lose people from (or worse, drive them out of) the community.

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I have found something curious about snack production. Compared to KBPS producing snacks with both greenhouses is very high power consuming (~3000 ec/sec  to be specific). Is this consumption intended?

comparison (input/out are ratios from the cfg files):

KKAOSS_Greenhouse_g:

  • 2 seats
  • Inputs: 0.5 Ore, 3 EC
  • Outputs: 1 Snacks

sspx-greenhouse-25-1:

  • 3 Seats
  • Inputs: 0.0005 Ore, 75 EC
  • Outputs: 0.0025 Snacks

sspx-greenhouse-375-1:

  • 3 Seats
  • Inputs: 0.0005 Ore, 75 EC
  • Outputs: 0.0005 Snacks

Large_Crewed_Lab (snacks stock config):

  • 3 Seats (6 with another mod)
  • Inputs: 0.002 Ore, 30 EC
  • Outputs: 0.01 Snacks

suggestion:
 Based on the 3 seated Lab part recycler that is actually just not intended to be a life support only part the EC consumption should be WAAAY  lower! The stock Lab is more efficient than the 2 greenhouses are.

calculations:
sspx-greenhouse-*: 75 EC / 0.0005 Ore = 150,000 EC per 1 Ore
Large_Crewed_Lab: 30 EC / 0.002 Ore = 15,000 EC per 1 Ore (10 times better)

What I wanted to show is .. please check the greenhouse snack production ratios, they're seem wrong.

Edited by LatiMacciato

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6 hours ago, TriggeredSnake said:

I love this mod and all, but the IVA's definitely need some work. Most of them just have kerbals floating in mid air, glitched into walls and consoles. For example, the 1.25 and 2.5 meter centrifuges have kerbals glitched everywhere, and the 1.25 meter cupola for example has switches and controls floating in midair next to the kerbal like the IVA was very lazily produced. Also, the winston and volleyball inflatable modules have some of the worst IVA's I've seen in a while, an empty blob with a big thing in the center with 3 kerbals floating without seats, despite sitting in a seated position, and the big 2.5 meter observation window pod really lacks detail; it works fine, but it would be better with some kind of detail, maybe a plant in the middle or something. It's a shame that such a great mod has such bad unfinished IVAs.

Is near future props installed? Sounds like that might be your problem.

Because I can guarantee you the IVAs are some of the most well produced and gorgeous IVAs that I have ever seen in Kerbal Space Program, when they are correctly installed.

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17 hours ago, JH4C said:

Considering the post above yours praises the IVAs, I would be interested in learning why you find them so terrible. I assume you did install the associated Near Future Props dependency? I just made a test "station" using every single habitable unit (requiring me to hire 70 additional Kerbals!) and every single one of them was sat properly in a seat, nothing was clipped through anything. There's obviously something not right with your install.

OT: Everyone's entitled to an opinion, but if you're gonna offer criticism try and be constructive about it instead of just ripping something to shreds with no suggestions as to how it might be improved, or even basic investigation that it's been properly experienced. Uninformed posts like this are how we lose people from (or worse, drive them out of) the community.

Wait there’s a dependency!? That’ll explain why things aren’t working. I just downloaded the mod from SpaceDock. Where does it say there’s a dependency? I read through the post 3 times before I downloaded to make sure, but I clearly missed it.

12 hours ago, theonegalen said:

Is near future props installed? Sounds like that might be your problem.

Because I can guarantee you the IVAs are some of the most well produced and gorgeous IVAs that I have ever seen in Kerbal Space Program, when they are correctly installed.

I don’t have that mod, no. I’ll install it.

Where does it say there’s a dependency? I read through the post like 3 times and totally missed it.

[snip]

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On 10/21/2018 at 1:27 PM, Nicias said:

I'm having trouble where the contact system doesn't seem to count the inflated and/or rotation hab sections when doing "expand station" contacts. So it's value of "current supports" number is too low.

Are you using only stock contracts, or are you also using Contract Configurator, Bases and Stations, etc? If the latter, I believe that you will need to contact @nightingale and whoever is maintaining Bases and Stations these days in order to make sure those contracts are compatible with the expandable modules.

Edited by theonegalen

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2 minutes ago, TriggeredSnake said:

Wait there’s a dependency!? That’ll explain why things aren’t working. I just downloaded the mod from SpaceDock. Where does it say there’s a dependency? I read through the post 3 times before I downloaded to make sure, but I clearly missed it.

It's bundled: the zip file from SpaceDock includes a GameData/NearFutureProps folder.  It's not something you have to download separately, but you do have to install it along with GameData/StationPartsExpansionRedux.

The download also includes B9PartSwitch and ModuleManager, which are also dependencies.  Make sure you've installed those too.

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5 hours ago, Norcalplanner said:

IVAs are a pain in the rear to make for something that many players look at rarely or if all. You're new to the forums, so you may not realize that the predecessor to this mod had even plainer IVAs.

For something that the modder offers to us for free, I think that they're great. :-)

I didn’t like the IVAs in the predecessor either. But yeah, I understand how much of a pain in the ass they are to make. That’s why if the developer had said he wasn’t gonna fix them I wouldn’t really be able to blame him. At least he put the effort into actually making IVAs.

But apparently the reason why they don’t look good for me is because I’m missing a dependency which was so incredibly well pointed-out that I missed it when I read the post 3 times to make sure I wasn’t missing any dependencies.

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3 minutes ago, TriggeredSnake said:

Wait there’s a dependency!? That’ll explain why things aren’t working. I just downloaded the mod from SpaceDock.

IIRC, the last time I downloaded SSPR from spacedock, Near Future Props was included in the download. Check under the game data folder in the zip file you downloaded.

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1 minute ago, Wyzard said:

It's bundled: the zip file from SpaceDock includes a GameData/NearFutureProps folder.  It's not something you have to download separately, but you do have to install it along with GameData/StationPartsExpansionRedux.

The download also includes B9PartSwitch and ModuleManager, which are also dependencies.  Make sure you've installed those too.

Weird. I copied everything into my gamedata, so I should have NearFutureProps. But yet the IVAs clearly weren’t working properly for me. Are there any mods that conflict with this one?

1 minute ago, theonegalen said:

IIRC, the last time I downloaded SSPR from spacedock, Near Future Props was included in the download. Check under the game data folder in the zip file you downloaded.

 

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2 hours ago, TriggeredSnake said:

Weird. I copied everything into my gamedata, so I should have NearFutureProps. But yet the IVAs clearly weren’t working properly for me. Are there any mods that conflict with this one?

 

maybe something is written in the log .. some error cannot load IVA for part thisandthat or something?

@NerteaFor the comparison I made here:
I have made a quick config (now working) that tweaks both greenhouses abit so it fits better in my opinion:

Spoiler

@PART[sspx-greenhouse-25-1]:NEEDS[StationPartsExpansionRedux]
{
	@MODULE[SnackProcessor]
	{
		-INPUT_RESOURCE,* { }
		INPUT_RESOURCE
		{
			ResourceName = Ore
			Ratio = 0.02
			FlowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
  		}
		INPUT_RESOURCE
		{
			ResourceName = ElectricCharge
			Ratio = 15
		}

		-OUTPUT_RESOURCE,* { }
		OUTPUT_RESOURCE
		{
			ResourceName = Snacks
			Ratio = 0.015
			DumpExcess = false
			FlowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
		}
	}
}

@PART[sspx-greenhouse-375-1]:NEEDS[StationPartsExpansionRedux]
{
	@MODULE[SnackProcessor]
	{
		-INPUT_RESOURCE,* { }
		INPUT_RESOURCE
		{
			ResourceName = Ore
			Ratio = 0.02
			FlowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
  		}
		INPUT_RESOURCE
		{
			ResourceName = ElectricCharge
			Ratio = 15
		}

		-OUTPUT_RESOURCE,* { }
		OUTPUT_RESOURCE
		{
			ResourceName = Snacks
			Ratio = 0.03
			DumpExcess = false
			FlowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
		}
	}
}

 

Feedback is always welcome!!!

Edited by LatiMacciato

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6 hours ago, TriggeredSnake said:

I love this mod and all, but the IVA's definitely need some work. Most of them just have kerbals floating in mid air, glitched into walls and consoles. For example, the 1.25 and 2.5 meter centrifuges have kerbals glitched everywhere, and the 1.25 meter cupola for example has switches and controls floating in midair next to the kerbal like the IVA was very lazily produced. Also, the winston and volleyball inflatable modules have some of the worst IVA's I've seen in a while, an empty blob with a big thing in the center with 3 kerbals floating without seats, despite sitting in a seated position, and the big 2.5 meter observation window pod really lacks detail; it works fine, but it would be better with some kind of detail, maybe a plant in the middle or something. It's a shame that such a great mod has such bad unfinished IVAs.

Your attitude wasn't fun for me to come back to after a long day. I've used bold colored highlights to indicate where you went wrong in your post. Remove these and you have a much less combative post. What did you think would happen upon deploying that language? Protip - saying something bad, crossing it out and adding a slightly different word does not make it better. 

A quick perusal of the imgur album attached to the OP would have revealed something was wrong with your install. Let's also check this excerpt from the readme (this exact version is from dev, but note the Dependencies section)

====================================
STATION PARTS EXPANSION REDUX v1.0.9
====================================

This pack provides a set of new space and ground station parts. New parts exist in all size classes from 1.25m to 3.75m. Rigid station parts are provided as well as expandable centrifuges and habitats. Ground bases are served with auto-leveling bases and extendable docking crew tubes.
In addition this pack reskins the Hitchiker, Cupola and Mobile Lab to improve their quality and match the new parts.

============
DEPENDENCIES
============

Required:
- ModuleManager (3.1.0)
- B9PartSwitch (2.4.5)
- NearFutureProps (0.3.5)

Optional
- RescuePodValidator
- Community Tech Tree (v2.2+)

And just to satisfy myself I took a ls of the contents of the zipfile from spacedock. Yep. The dependency is bundled. 

drwxr-xr-x@  6 cadderley  staff     192 30 Sep 15:38 NearFutureProps
-rw-r--r--@  1 cadderley  staff  104960 30 Sep 15:38 ModuleManager.3.0.7.dll
drwxr-xr-x@ 10 cadderley  staff     320 30 Sep 15:38 B9PartSwitch
drwxr-xr-x@  9 cadderley  staff     288 30 Sep 15:38 StationPartsExpansionRedux

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10 minutes ago, TriggeredSnake said:

Weird. I copied everything into my gamedata, so I should have NearFutureProps. But yet the IVAs clearly weren’t working properly for me. Are there any mods that conflict with this one?

I have never found any conflicts, but whenever I'm troubleshooting a problem with a mod, I find it's best to first try a clean fresh install of the mod that seems to be the problem by itself in an otherwise stock KSP folder. If it works then, then I start going through my other mods and seeing if combinations do strange things. Good luck. If you do find a conflict, I'm sure we'd all like to hear about it.

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1 hour ago, LatiMacciato said:

I have found something curious about snack production. Compared to KBPS producing snacks with both greenhouses is very high power consuming (~3000 ec/sec  to be specific). Is this consumption intended?

That's likely due to the known fault in the Snack processor module in those greenhouses. I don't remember exactly what the fault is, but it is there and this is related. Those will have to be swapped out for stable converter modules.

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1 hour ago, LatiMacciato said:

I have found something curious about snack production. Compared to KBPS producing snacks with both greenhouses is very high power consuming (~3000 ec/sec  to be specific). Is this consumption intended?

comparison (input/out are ratios from the cfg files):

KKAOSS_Greenhouse_g:

  • 2 seats
  • Inputs: 0.5 Ore, 3 EC
  • Outputs: 1 Snacks

sspx-greenhouse-25-1:

  • 3 Seats
  • Inputs: 0.0005 Ore, 75 EC
  • Outputs: 0.0025 Snacks

sspx-greenhouse-375-1:

  • 3 Seats
  • Inputs: 0.0005 Ore, 75 EC
  • Outputs: 0.0005 Snacks

Large_Crewed_Lab (snacks stock config):

  • 3 Seats (6 with another mod)
  • Inputs: 0.002 Ore, 30 EC
  • Outputs: 0.01 Snacks

suggestion:
 Based on the 3 seated Lab part recycler that is actually just not intended to be a life support only part the EC consumption should be WAAAY  lower! The stock Lab is more efficient than the 2 greenhouses are.

calculations:
sspx-greenhouse-*: 75 EC / 0.0005 Ore = 150,000 EC per 1 Ore
Large_Crewed_Lab: 30 EC / 0.002 Ore = 15,000 EC per 1 Ore (10 times better)

What I wanted to show is .. please check the greenhouse snack production ratios, they're seem wrong.

Do you have some suggested numbers for me? I don't maintain the other mod compatibility configs and really often don't play the game these days except when testing balance, so I don't have a handle on what these should be?

5 hours ago, Xenophon Muravyov said:

I'm not sure why, but using any of the parts from this mod causes huge lag in the VAB (1.5) When I place down any of the parts (Or re textured stock one like the science lab) my memory usage maxes out and my game lags to a standstill.

I can provide logs if you want them, but I was just wondering if anyone else had this issue. 

Grab the latest version of B9PS, it may solve this.

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Just now, JadeOfMaar said:

That's likely due to the known fault in the Snack processor module in those greenhouses. I don't remember exactly what the fault is, but it is there and this is related. Those will have to be swapped out for stable converter modules.

Thanks for beeing the first replying to my constructive critics! the config I posted above might just fit into current snacks.

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Cool, I'll work on that. I provide compat with angel-125's mods so this is on me, and it's overdue, I guess. :blush:

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1 minute ago, Nertea said:

Do you have some suggested numbers for me? I don't maintain the other mod compatibility configs and really often don't play the game these days except when testing balance, so I don't have a handle on what these should be?

jup posted above! :)

lil reminder (cuz of the speed of this forum .. wheeew):

sspx-greenhouse-25-1: 0.02 ore, 15 EC, 0.03 Snacks
sspx-greenhouse-375-1: 0.02 ore, 15 EC, 0.015 Snacks

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@LatiMacciato Just the two SSPXr greenhouses, right? I'm completely lost about the 3-seat lab. I know not of such a thing. (I's been a long time since I've played KSP)

Wait a minute. This doesn't make sense. The inputs are the same but the outputs are different. And I'd expect the 3.75m greenhouse to be modestly larger/more capable.

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9 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

@LatiMacciato Just the two SSPXr greenhouses, right? I'm completely lost about the 3-seat lab. I know not of such a thing. (I's been a long time since I've played KSP)

haha no worries, it's the stock large tube lab (MPL-LG-2)
@Angel-125 has modified this and this is my reference for comparing, the numbers I posted above making the 2 greenhouse parts less power consuming and more snacks producing (the 25-1 is doubled in output)

I guess the doubled output is a reasonable way of producing since the 375-1 is wider but not having as much visual space to put plants for producing snacks. :)

Yes SSPXr only has this 2 greenhouses.

Edited by LatiMacciato

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A number of posts have been removed or edited because of a rather nasty argument. Please don't insult each other. If you see a post which you think is a a problem, just hit the report button and let the moderators deal with it. 

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@LatiMacciato I'm setting the 2.5m greenhouse to 0.02 Ore, 15 EC, 0.03 Snacks. But I don't want the 3.75m greenhouse to be so much weaker than it. That grinds my gears. Are you okay with 75% or 80%?

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8 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

@LatiMacciato I'm setting the 2.5m greenhouse to 0.02 Ore, 15 EC, 0.03 Snacks. But I don't want the 3.75m greenhouse to be so much weaker than it. That grinds my gears. Are you okay with 75% or 80%?

Until now I was sure the 3.75m was the "weaker" one because of the visual plant space (the 2.5 has more visual plants and was stronger before so I tried to fit in the idea of this mod >.<).

Despite the fact usually the bigger parts make things better in this case the bigger part (3.75m) is flatter so it has a lack of space, unless your fine with going along the bigger is better concept setting the 2.5m to 0.015 Snacks and the 3.75 to 0.03 Snacks ratios. I'd be flattered if the "bigger" one gets a reasonable concept and think people might enjoy using the part more too.

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1 hour ago, Nertea said:

Your attitude wasn't fun for me to come back to after a long day. I've used bold colored highlights to indicate where you went wrong in your post. Remove these and you have a much less combative post. What did you think would happen upon deploying that language? Protip - saying something bad, crossing it out and adding a slightly different word does not make it better. 

A quick perusal of the imgur album attached to the OP would have revealed something was wrong with your install. Let's also check this excerpt from the readme (this exact version is from dev, but note the Dependencies section)


====================================
STATION PARTS EXPANSION REDUX v1.0.9
====================================

This pack provides a set of new space and ground station parts. New parts exist in all size classes from 1.25m to 3.75m. Rigid station parts are provided as well as expandable centrifuges and habitats. Ground bases are served with auto-leveling bases and extendable docking crew tubes.
In addition this pack reskins the Hitchiker, Cupola and Mobile Lab to improve their quality and match the new parts.

============
DEPENDENCIES
============

Required:
- ModuleManager (3.1.0)
- B9PartSwitch (2.4.5)
- NearFutureProps (0.3.5)

Optional
- RescuePodValidator
- Community Tech Tree (v2.2+)

And just to satisfy myself I took a ls of the contents of the zipfile from spacedock. Yep. The dependency is bundled. 


drwxr-xr-x@  6 cadderley  staff     192 30 Sep 15:38 NearFutureProps
-rw-r--r--@  1 cadderley  staff  104960 30 Sep 15:38 ModuleManager.3.0.7.dll
drwxr-xr-x@ 10 cadderley  staff     320 30 Sep 15:38 B9PartSwitch
drwxr-xr-x@  9 cadderley  staff     288 30 Sep 15:38 StationPartsExpansionRedux

Actually, all the language I used fits perfectly in my opinion. The text I used perfectly describes the view I was getting from my badly installed mod. And, the reason why I crossed out “bad” was because as I was writing the post I realised that the IVAs looked more unfinished then anything, and I decided to keep the fact that I originally was just gonna say they looked bad as it shows how my thought process progressed.

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