Star Wars Episode VIII (8) the Last Jedi Discussion

[Cheif Operations Director]

43 minutes ago, SpaceN00b said:

This Legends from the Star Wars Wiki but: Hyperspace collisions, whether they be intentional or by accident, could devastate or even destroy a planet. Considering the fact that the output of the reactors of many Capital ships rivaled or eclipsed that of a star, and that the energies needed to make hyperspace travel possible were vast, one could unleash a great deal of destructive power on a target. Even if a planet had its planetary shielding up at the time of a hyperspace collision, it could still have the potential to kill millions on a world such as Coruscant just due to the fallout. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hyperspace/Legends

If you shoot a nuclear reactor will it become a hydrogen bomb? The Energy isn't released during impact

[GoSlash27]

regex,

 Agreed, but a lot of us are mad about these new films because anyone with decent writing skills and a solid special effects department can crank out a *really bad* Star Wars film.

Best,
-Slashy

 

[regex]

9 minutes ago, GoSlash27 said:

 Agreed, but a lot of us are mad about these new films because anyone with decent writing skills and a solid special effects department can crank out a *really bad* Star Wars film.

Eh, I'll take these any day of the week over that weak-sauce second trilogy, and I think they compliment the first trilogy nicely. These are fun, well-written, artsy, and engaging. They humanize legends and make legends out of nobodies. I can't ask for much more out of a basic AF space opera. YMWV obviously, but I am thoroughly entertained.

[kerbiloid]

32 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

If you shoot a nuclear reactor will it become a hydrogen bomb? The Energy isn't released during impact

Unless they have a kind of fusion reactors with a lot of compressed plasma inside. When a chamber crashes, the plasma cloud expands.
Or antimatter-enforced fusion reactors with several kg of antimatter in magnetic traps or cryotanks onboard. When out of energy, the antimatter annihilates.

Another question: what an idiot would put such ships aside and especially near a habitated planet.

Edited December 30, 2017 by kerbiloid

[GoSlash27]

6 minutes ago, regex said:

Eh, I'll take these any day of the week over that weak-sauce second trilogy, and I think they compliment the first trilogy nicely. These are fun, well-written, artsy, and engaging. They humanize legends and make legends out of nobodies. I can't ask for much more out of a basic AF space opera. YMWV obviously, but I am thoroughly entertained.

regex,

 Ahh... but you're just comparing them to other Star Wars films. That's like saying somebody's a reasonably pretty Denny's waitress; i.e. not much. How "fun, well-written, artsy, and engaging" are these films in comparison to other films that have absolutely nothing to to with Star Wars? Say, The Big Lebowski, The Matrix, or Saving Private Ryan?

 Objectively speaking, strictly on their own merits as films, these movies frankly suck. For some reason, people are too willing to overlook that fact because they happen to be "Star Wars" films. I apparently lack the ability to do that.

Best,
-Slashy

 

 

[Cheif Operations Director]

14 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

Unless they have a kind of fusion reactors with a lot of compressed plasma inside. When a chamber crashes, the plasma cloud expands.
Or antimatter-enforced fusion reactors with several kg of antimatter in magnetic traps or cryotanks onboard. When out of energy, the antimatter annihilates.

Another question: what an idiot would put such ships aside and especially near a habitated planet.

Fusion reactors don't exist yet

Atleast not a realistic one

I like each Star Wars movie except Ep II VII and VIII

[kerbiloid]

8 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Fusion reactors don't exist yet

I forgot that Star Wars are not future, but a long time ago,

[regex]

10 hours ago, GoSlash27 said:

The Big Lebowski

A much better film, agreed.

Quote

The Matrix

On par, entertainment-wise. A big reason we (my friends and I) loved that was the build-up hype and mystery. Finally figuring out the film was a huge reward. I look back on the movie itself and it matches Star Wars: TLJ in terms of the entire premise being a plot hole so I judge it on entertainment value.

Quote

Saving Private Ryan?

Better. Saving Private Ryan was a garbage film with a thin plot. The entire reason people fawn over that is the Normandy landing sequence. E: This was unfair and I was drunk when I wrote it. Saving Private Ryan is not "garbage", but it was not a good film.

Quote

 Objectively speaking, strictly on their own merits as films, these movies frankly suck. For some reason, people are too willing to overlook that fact because they happen to be "Star Wars" films. I apparently lack the ability to do that.

Objectively speaking they're entertaining, which is pretty much my measure of quality when going into any movie where the entire universe is literally a plot hole.

Edited December 30, 2017 by regex

[Superfluous J]

This thread is at least as entertaining as the movie was, and I expect some day will be as long. And it was free!

In my mind miticloreans (I refuse to look up the spelling) are not "Force units" but instead an organism attracted to people with the Force. The more Force powerful, the more they want to ride along. The Jedi just used them as a test, like taking someone's temperature.

I have 0 issues with Rey being some super Force user. I'd have preferred she train a little bit, though.

[DDE]

12 hours ago, tater said:

Anakin loses 100 million parts of himself every time he attempts reproduction. How many are assigned to each attempt? When does he run out from that?

Lucas was a moron to introduce that concept. A moron.

Quote

THAT'S NOT HOW THE FORCE WORKS!

Counterexample: Grievous received a transfusion of blood of a freshly killed Jedi Master, midichlorians and all, to absolutely no effect. Nor is that entirely genetics, as attempts to clone and even mass-produce Force-sensitive individuals have been fraught with effects ranging from lackluster to horrific.

Space magic.

[PakledHostage]

8 hours ago, GoSlash27 said:

regex,

 Ahh... but you're just comparing them to other Star Wars films. That's like saying somebody's a reasonably pretty Denny's waitress; i.e. not much. How "fun, well-written, artsy, and engaging" are these films in comparison to other films that have absolutely nothing to to with Star Wars? Say, The Big Lebowski, The Matrix, or Saving Private Ryan?

 

I agree 100% with @regex on this one. TLJ wasn't a "great" movie but it was entertaining in the moment. 

Great movies may be particularly clever or charming in how they tell their story, they may make a particularly profound point that resonates in viewers for a couple of days afterwards, etc. TLJ certainly didn't do any of that. And if you think about it too hard afterwards, you can find lots of things wrong with TLJ to complain about. But for pure entertainment value, it was worth $12 and three hours of my time. And it was certainly better than some of its predecessors in the series.

Edited December 30, 2017 by PakledHostage

[GoSlash27]

31 minutes ago, PakledHostage said:

I agree 100% with @regex on this one. TLJ wasn't a "great" movie but it was entertaining in the moment. 

Great movies may be particularly clever or charming in how they tell their story, they may make a particularly profound point that resonates in viewers for a couple of days afterwards, etc. TLJ certainly didn't do any of that. And if you think about it too hard afterwards, you can find lots of things wrong with TLJ to complain about. But for pure entertainment value, it was worth $12 and three hours of my time. And it was certainly better than some of its predecessors in the series.

PackledHostage,

 Unfortunately, I disagree with both of you. I found the whole thing tedious and way too long. The money wasted on it was no big deal, but I found the act of sitting through it a chore. Bad pacing, lazy writing, bad acting, no chemistry, no character arcs or development to speak of, and it limped along (begging to be mercy- killed) for 3 hours! The only parts I actually found interesting in this movie were actually rehashes of the same scenes in previous Star Wars films, and they had been done better there. A couple exceptions: The whole "snail vs. turtle race" was a pretty cool concept (if loaded with plot holes). It had a ticking clock feel to it. But you can't have that going on for 3 hours. And the "Rey and Kylo tag team" was pretty badass.
 Not a movie I'd care to sit through again, even for free.

 Looking back on this film 10 years from now, I don't think it will be remembered fondly... if it is remembered at all. Comparing it to some of it's predecessors lowers the bar too much IMO, but if I were to do that, I'd use the phrase "not as bad as" instead of "better than".

Happy New Year,
-Slashy

Edited December 30, 2017 by GoSlash27

[GoSlash27]

7 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

I have 0 issues with Rey being some super Force user. I'd have preferred she train a little bit, though.

5thHorseman,

 Well, that sums up the entire problem with Rey, doesn't it? She never follows the classic hero character arc where she begins as a weak, scared nobody and transforms into a badass in the face of adversity. She just hatches out as a badass right from the very start. We never feel like she's in any real danger, so we never get emotionally invested. That's bad storytelling, and it just makes her boring.

 At it's heart, it's not about mitichlorians or canon or anything like that. It's more fundamental. It's about what makes an engaging movie vs. what doesn't.

Best,
-Slashy

 

[DDE]

1 hour ago, GoSlash27 said:

Bad pacing, lazy writing, bad acting, no chemistry, no character arcs or development to speak of, and it limped along (begging to be mercy- killed) for 3 hours!

Sounds like money and time better spent on a certain recent Harrison Ford movie.

[ProtoJeb21]

I can’t believe how much of this thread is made up of arguments over midichlorians (I’m pretty sure that’s how you spell it) and Rey’s powers. Seriously, all this is rather unnecessary. There are a ton more aspects of the film to discuss - like, for example, its meme potential. 

[Red Shirt]

I have not seen the movie - yet. Reading through I do have a few thoughts.

40 years ago when ANH came out we were blown away (I was in college - yeah old fart). Visually nothing like it had ever been done. The story was a simple tale of good verses evil. With the exception of Han the lines were pretty well defined like in most classic tales. It set the standard for episode V and VI and the prequels. Therein is the problem.

Episode I may have made sense as back story but it was just plain bad. II was completely throw away. Revenge of the Sith I hate to admit is my favorite of the prequels. The whole duel through the lava is beyond inexcusable but the transitional story arc from Anakin to Vader comes together in this one, so I give it a pass.  

Then a generation later Disney gains possession. With it come changes. The universe is no longer just black and white. No longer are people simply good or evil. It's all becoming shades of gray. I think this mirrors the present feelings of our society. 

In addition, from what I'm reading here, it seems humanism is replacing the force. We no longer need an ancient religion. We are, or can become, our own solution. Again a reflection of current society.

In TFA, Rey starts as a simple character trying to survive. Before movie's end she becomes powerful but is untrained. Typical Disney princess character? Wait, doesn't this also match Luke at some point?

Now in TLJ the source of her power has become a problem with many. Maybe Kylo lied. Maybe she does have a background that will be revealed in IX. Maybe not. 

Maybe Disney wants to cash in on the super hero movies and Rey will get a cape in the next movie. Maybe just maybe she is the final fulfillment of the prophecy. That to me would still require a Skywalker lineage. I personally hope Disney isn't taking this the Dark Crystal route. It's been done... and it's stupid.     
 

[DDE]

17 minutes ago, ProtoJeb21 said:

I can’t believe how much of this thread is made up of arguments over midichlorians (I’m pretty sure that’s how you spell it) and Rey’s powers.

Disproportional power, disproportional prominence.

 

4 minutes ago, Red Shirt said:

The universe is no longer just black and white. No longer are people simply good or evil. It's all becoming shades of gray. I think this mirrors the present feelings of our society. 

I simply don't see it. The baddies are more stereotypically, over-the-top, inexplicably evil than ever; the good guys are impractically, suicidally holier-than-thou.

4 minutes ago, Red Shirt said:

Maybe Disney wants to cash in on the super hero movies and Rey will get a cape in the next movie.

Capes are cheap in SW.

4 minutes ago, Red Shirt said:

In addition, from what I'm reading here, it seems humanism is replacing the force. We no longer need an ancient religion. We are, or can become, our own solution. Again a reflection of current society.

But a bаstаrdization of classic SW. If you want a setting with widely available superpowers, build your own, with blackjack and things that are not to be mentioned in this auto-censored forum.

Edited December 30, 2017 by DDE

[PakledHostage]

2 hours ago, GoSlash27 said:

PackledHostage,

 Unfortunately, I disagree with both of you. I found the whole thing tedious and way too long. The money wasted on it was no big deal, but I found the act of sitting through it a chore. Bad pacing, lazy writing, bad acting, no chemistry, no character arcs or development to speak of, and it limped along (begging to be mercy- killed) for 3 hours! 

Well that's just the thing. Tastes aren't universal. I can't stand comic book/superhero movies but somebody obviously does or they wouldn't keep making them. And I am thrilled and reinvigorated as a cinephile when I stumble across something great like "The Big Lebowski" or "Hell or High Water". Maybe it is just nostalgia that keeps me coming back to SW, but whatever the reason, I do keep giving it chance after chance. In my opinion, TLJ was a pretty good SW film.

[tater]

1 hour ago, DDE said:

But a bаstаrdization of classic SW. If you want a setting with widely available superpowers, build your own, with blackjack and things that are not to be mentioned in this auto-censored forum.

As an old guy, @#!$! the "canon," the only canon that matters is the first couple movies. The first couple made, that is (Star Wars, and Empire).

The first anyone hears of the force in SW is Ben telling Luke about it. He says it's everywhere, in everything and every being. That's as universally available as I can imagine. There is no problem at all with this being accessible to random people, because that doesn't mean that everyone will be moving stuff with their minds, it just means that you can't look at someone and tell if they can do that by knowing who their parents were. Big deal.

Regarding the gray, that's what it should have been shifted to, anyway. That's part of making a story that's more adult, frankly. The best character elements in A Song of Ice and Fire (Game of Thrones for people who don't read ) is that characters seem irredeemable, but turn out to have sides you like. They don;t "arc" into switching sides, they were always complex, like the real world. Infinite shades of gray. It makes for better characters.

 

 

[DDE]

1 hour ago, tater said:

Regarding the gray, that's what it should have been shifted to, anyway.

That's not exactly the consensus. With Disney taking over and before that the prequels, it's clear that SW isn't marketed at the GoT age bracket. The shift seems misplaces - which is why Rogue One seemed to probe those grounds so awkwardly. I'm not sure who said it, "They tried to set a WWII-esque movie in a franchise that gave us Jar-Jar". And ultimately, it decided to opt for loads of fanservice, little of worthwhile substance, and a dull colour palette.

 

Edited December 30, 2017 by DDE

[regex]

I liked TLJ's explanation of the Force, makes much more sense than midifloorians and fits the earlier narrative. As far as Rey's power, at least force-wise, I don't see her doing amazing feats like astrally-projecting across the universe, she's basically just using simple telekinesis (and a mind trick at one point) and it's clear that even her raw power in the Force is no match for someone like Snoke.

And as far as feeling as if she's in danger, even my five-year old recognizes that "it wouldn't be called Charlie and the Chocolate Factory if Charlie got kicked out!" Ultimately the viewer has to give in to disbelief in order to accept that the hero is in any way in danger, and tbqfh you've got to be in a state of disbelief to watch a space opera with space magic in the first place. Which isn't to say that the hero shouldn't grow, but to me Rey's journey isn't one of power or learning how to fight (I can accept that someone growing up alone and abandoned in a place like Jaku could become a badass, and nicely explains her confidence and self-control) but more of history and understanding her role in the space opera. She grows from being a solitary nobody to being a bonafide hero.

Contrast to Luke who grew up on a farm shooting womprats out of boredom and can't recognize a deflector warning light suddenly being thrust into the middle of an epic space conflict and ultimately saving the day with little to no training in how to fly in combat, and somehow not being completely mind-flooded and panicking. We all accepted that for some reason but Rey can't be martially competent? Please...

[GoSlash27]

1 hour ago, Red Shirt said:

In TFA, Rey starts as a simple character trying to survive. Before movie's end she becomes powerful but is untrained. Typical Disney princess character? Wait, doesn't this also match Luke at some point?

Red Shirt,
 Unfortunately, it doesn't match Luke at all. As I said up-stream, she hatches out as a wholesale badass. Fully independent, expert at combat, technical genius, fluent in more languages than C3PO, etc. That's *before* she figures out that she's force-sensitive. Even up to the end of VIII, she remains untrained. She just naturally has the ability to do whatever she wants. She never needs training.

2 hours ago, Red Shirt said:

Then a generation later Disney gains possession. With it come changes. The universe is no longer just black and white. No longer are people simply good or evil. It's all becoming shades of gray. I think this mirrors the present feelings of our society. 

 I would've welcomed a lot more of this. I think Rogue One could've been a much better film had Disney stood back and let Gary Whitta and Gareth Edwards just do their thing.

2 hours ago, Red Shirt said:

In addition, from what I'm reading here, it seems humanism is replacing the force. We no longer need an ancient religion. We are, or can become, our own solution. Again a reflection of current society.

 In the original film, that was kind of the theme. It was never expressly stated what made certain people force- sensitive and others not. When they added in the family drama later, they implied that force sensitivity was genetic.
 
 What I keep harping about is how bad the storytelling is now, especially in contrast with how great the storytelling was in the original film.

Best,
-Slashy

[DDE]

2 minutes ago, GoSlash27 said:

What I keep harping about is how bad the storytelling is now, especially in contrast with how great the storytelling was in the original film.

It wasn't exactly great, but it was quality and universal thanks to doing the good old monomyth to a T. TFA is an inferior emulation, while R1 and TLJ... simply suck on that front.

In case with TLJ, possibly deliberately.

[GoSlash27]

All Star Wars movies as rated by viewers on Rotten Tomatoes:

I The Phantom Menace      59
II Attack of the Clones        57
III Revenge of the Sith         65
Rogue One                            87
IV A New Hope                     96
V The Empire Strikes Back 97
VI Return of the Jedi           94
VII The Force Awakens      87
VIII The Last Jedi                51

The other movies I gave as examples of non- Star Wars movies:

The Big Lebowski               94
Saving Private Ryan           95
The Matrix                           85

 

 I wouldn't agree that TLJ is even worse than the prequels, but when I call it a dumpster fire, I'm not alone in this assessment.

Best,
-Slashy

[Cheif Operations Director]

3 hours ago, DDE said:

Disproportional power, disproportional prominence.

 

I simply don't see it. The baddies are more stereotypically, over-the-top, inexplicably evil than ever; the good guys are impractically, suicidally holier-than-thou.

Capes are cheap in SW.

But a bаstаrdization of classic SW. If you want a setting with widely available superpowers, build your own, with blackjack and things that are not to be mentioned in this auto-censored forum.

That video somes it up.

As I have stated before I'm fine with Rey's power... By Ep IX but not this early 

She atleast needs training. Han could have even copied was Obi Wan said and given her a intro on the Falcon but it didn't happen it just sad the Star Wars here.

Here is an alternative plot of VII and VIII

That suits both sides of the arguement. 

 

Ep VII

Open on Jakku with the first order attack.

Everything stays the same until we meet Rey and she gets her food. And find BB-8 and is back at the AT-AT Walker. BB-8 still hold the schematics to Luke Skywalker position. All the event happen the same but this time Finn who is trained flies the Falcon and Rey takes down the Tie Fighters. They meet up with Han the Same way.

We now get a scene of Luke being his depressed self reading the Jedi Text. And him living his life on Ach To for a few moments. Luke has a cane but he doesn't need it.  Maby 2 minutes tops for Luke on this scene. Next we get a scene to General Hux Preparing StarKiller bases in the command center but we don't actually see the base. This is also where Snoke is introduced. Snoke Demands that Rey be brought to Snoke on Star Killer base. We next see a scene of Leia demanding support for the resistance on The Capital World. We see a frustrated Leia after not getting on a ship after being denied the funding for the resistance and being to take off. We now go back to Star Killer base which we see is a Enormous star Destoyer sort of like the legends Eclipse. He orders it fire. It's a red laser that splits but it's a Kyber Crystal Based design. Leia reaches space and from here left sees a Red beam hit the planet Right when Leia jumps into Hyper Space. She begins to cry and reveals mon mothma was on the planet along with some of her freinds when it blew up. We see a scene of Luke dropping his cane line Yoda during Order 66. We now see Rey with Han Board the melinium Falcon and fly to Takodana. We see the Takodana scene as it except no force vision. We see the same scene all the way up until the Falcon leaves except Rey isn't captured. Kylo Ren places a Hyper Space tracker on the Falcon. They fly back to the Resistance base where Poe Leia Rey Han and Chewy all meet up. And share the hello, good day to you, greeting moment. We now see Luke Skywalker on Ach to Find his lightsaber. He ignites it and it is Purple like Mace Windu he continues to train. We now see him take out his green lightsaber. So he can dual wield and make it into a double bladed style. If he chooses. The scene ends. And we see the meeting about star Killer base which is a Snoke Ship sized Star Destoyer with a Super Laser in the front. It is also escorted by 4 Dreadnauhts and 8 star Destroyers escorting. The Resistance get support from a Fleet from the Unknown Regions Lead by Resistance Admiral Thrawn. The Cousin of Imperial Grand Admiral Thrawn. When Thrawn lands he devises a strategy similar the Ashoka Tano Ryloth campaign strategy. Use the capital ships to draw in the enemy and outflank them with fighters. It is decided that they do that plane to destroy the Star Killer base fleet. Also at the meeting Rey and Chewbacca C-3PO along with R2-D2 after find the complete Luke Skywalker map.Han Solo Poe and BB-8 go to blow up star killer base and being Kylo Back to the light side. When the Luke crew decided to fly to Acho the were unaware of the tracker. They take off. We see a scene of Kylo Reporting to Snoke the tracker is active and the Falcon is in transit. Just then the Alarm goes out across Star Killer base " Resistance Fleet Entering Secotr Battle Stations." We now see a scene of Chewbacca telling Rey to put on the helmet Luke used and Pick up her lightsaber and begin to train like Luke did with Obi Wan. C-3PO translates. When Rey puts on the helmet she has her force vision but this time foresees Her handing Luke the lightsaber. That only as her vision. We go to see Star Killer base under attack by resistance forces. The fighters all outflank and destroy all the capital ships and the dreadnaughts. They also take out 1/2 of the Engines on the ship and blow up the Super Weapon. They jump to Hyper Space to save their leader ship. A cannon on the Snoke Ship hits a Medical Frigate and it disintegrates when they jump. The order to abandon ship and transfer to the fleet we see in The Last Jedi. They also transfer data too the Capital Ship about the tracker. We now for the last scene see the normal end for the Force Awakens except when Luke takes the light saber he nods. 

The End

How did you like that Plot compared to the one we got. Again that is a rough outline not a word for word just a food for thought. I'm going to being by Ep VIII Plot on what should happen in a later post. When I'm done eating... I've been writing this for a hour now lol.

 

Edited December 30, 2017 by Cheif Operations Director