[WIP] Infernal Robotics - Next

[AccidentalDisassembly]

56 minutes ago, Rudolf Meier said:

new version is out... and this one should be a good one!

all that might need a little tweaking is the values in the cfg files... for stronger joints, modify those values... I don't know if we did choose them correctly, but there is a good chance, that the code is ok now...

Edit: I did test it, the joint strength seems to be ok for me (according to first tests with just one extendatron) ... but I see, there's sometimes a problem with the gui (too many buttons show up and the category doubled in the VAB... once...)

Haven't tried everything, but one note: the new version of KJR you've got bundled conflicts with KIS/KAS and stops things like Winches from ejecting parts / reeling in and spooling out. Is this a new line needed in KJR's XML list of exceptions, maybe?

EDIT: am using KIS/KAS versions made for 1.4.0 on 1.4.0 and did try it without KJR (they work when KJR's removed).

EDIT2: Am noticing significant hiccups/lag in the VAB when increasing or decreasing the symmetry values used to place IR parts.

EDIT3: Bug regarding speed/accel and symmetry parts, reproduce like so:

1. Add an extendatron in symmetry to the craft in the editor.

2. Increase the speed/accel values for one of the extendatrons - when you right click on the others, that value will appear to have been applied to all of them as well.

3. Launch craft, extend all of them at once - only one of the extendatrons will actually move faster.

Edited March 12, 2018 by AccidentalDisassembly

[Rudolf Meier]

7 hours ago, AccidentalDisassembly said:

Haven't tried everything, but one note: the new version of KJR you've got bundled conflicts with KIS/KAS and stops things like Winches from ejecting parts / reeling in and spooling out. Is this a new line needed in KJR's XML list of exceptions, maybe?

EDIT: am using KIS/KAS versions made for 1.4.0 on 1.4.0 and did try it without KJR (they work when KJR's removed).

I know... but I couldn't reproduce that. Can you tell me what parts you used in what order and how did you connect/disconnect? ... should be an easy one once I can see it on my machine, but I didn't use the winch in the past ...

7 hours ago, AccidentalDisassembly said:

EDIT2: Am noticing significant hiccups/lag in the VAB when increasing or decreasing the symmetry values used to place IR parts.

I can already imagine what this is... must be the same bug that sometimes doubles the category and stuff like that...

7 hours ago, AccidentalDisassembly said:

EDIT3: Bug regarding speed/accel and symmetry parts, reproduce like so:

1. Add an extendatron in symmetry to the craft in the editor.

2. Increase the speed/accel values for one of the extendatrons - when you right click on the others, that value will appear to have been applied to all of them as well.

3. Launch craft, extend all of them at once - only one of the extendatrons will actually move faster.

That's a new one...

something else... I was thinking about a special "broken mode" ... in case the joint is torn apart, the mod could start showing it that way... no idea if that's interesting... I was also thinking about other "broken" states... not working anymore or consuming way too much electricity because of overload in the past or things like that... but maybe that's a feature for the future

[Rudolf Meier]

16 hours ago, Rudolf Meier said:

Edit: I did test it, the joint strength seems to be ok for me (according to first tests with just one extendatron) ... but I see, there's sometimes a problem with the gui (too many buttons show up and the category doubled in the VAB... once...)

ups... that wasn't a bug, I did copy the GameData folder to build the release of IR next and forgot to delete it after... KSP now found 2 plugins and loaded them both... that's what caused the problems... so, no bugs I could see on my side... I will now investigate those reported from others

[AccidentalDisassembly]

8 hours ago, Rudolf Meier said:

I know... but I couldn't reproduce that. Can you tell me what parts you used in what order and how did you connect/disconnect? ... should be an easy one once I can see it on my machine, but I didn't use the winch in the past ...

I can already imagine what this is... must be the same bug that sometimes doubles the category and stuff like that...

That's a new one...

something else... I was thinking about a special "broken mode" ... in case the joint is torn apart, the mod could start showing it that way... no idea if that's interesting... I was also thinking about other "broken" states... not working anymore or consuming way too much electricity because of overload in the past or things like that... but maybe that's a feature for the future

To reproduce, put a winch on the side of a craft, above the ground a bit, preferably, then put a harpoon on the end of the winch.

In flight, right click the winch and hit eject. It won't do anything (it does when KJR isn't installed), and I think even if it does do something, the harpoon won't "stick" to the ground like it normally does.

[Rudolf Meier]

16 hours ago, AccidentalDisassembly said:

EDIT2: Am noticing significant hiccups/lag in the VAB when increasing or decreasing the symmetry values used to place IR parts.

the function "InitializeValues" is about 1000 times slower than I expected... I will investigate this

9 minutes ago, AccidentalDisassembly said:

To reproduce, put a winch on the side of a craft, above the ground a bit, preferably, then put a harpoon on the end of the winch.

In flight, right click the winch and hit eject. It won't do anything (it does when KJR isn't installed), and I think even if it does do something, the harpoon won't "stick" to the ground like it normally does.

ok... that sounds easy... I will try to reproduce that...

[kcs123]

Updated craft files again. Included samm crane craft. It use stock parts + IR parts + landing legs from USI MKS mod.

That landing legs from Roverdude mod have special ability to attach themself on the ground. "Toggle Ground Tether" from part right click menu.
Steps to reproduce:

1. Launch craft file from SPH to runway.
2. Attach landing legs to the ground
3. Decouple (alnmost) empty fuel tank from craft, just to have something to play with crane and winch
4. Use winch GUI to extend rope
5. While extending, it is visible that magnet on winch is always on angled position, rope is also extended on angle istead to be in normal position to the ground.
6. Try to deattach legs from ground with Ground Tether option, you will see difference in behaviour.

I was having same issue without Roverdudes legs but with parts from other mods. Also, something to keep in mind is that KAS and possible other mods can also have ability to attach craft on the ground.

I tried to create craft with only stock parts, but could not reproduce same bug. At least parts from MKS are required, those are quiter popular ones when comes to space station and base buildings.

[Rudolf Meier]

ok, all bugs fixed in IR (minor things) and now I'm working on KJR ... I do now have a situation in which I see the problem... and I'm asking myself, if it ever worked in the old KJR?

[Rudolf Meier]

ok, everything fixed and uploaded...

for 3 versions of KSP (1.2.2, 1.3.1 and 1.4)

 

Edited March 12, 2018 by Rudolf Meier

[Getsome2030]

Hi Rudolf, I have used IR in my craft constructions from just about its first release and think it should be a stock parts item in vanilla KSP. Thank you for keeping this mod updated and evolving, but when I go to download it from the links on the first page Malwarebytes detects and blocks the site as Malicious. Would it be too inconvenient to place the downloads on a trusted site such as Github.com? Cheers

[Rudolf Meier]

4 minutes ago, Getsome2030 said:

Hi Rudolf, I have used IR in my craft constructions from just about its first release and think it should be a stock parts item in vanilla KSP. Thank you for keeping this mod updated and evolving, but when I go to download it from the links on the first page Malwarebytes detects and blocks the site as Malicious. Would it be too inconvenient to place the downloads on a trusted site such as Github.com? Cheers

thanks, no, that's no problem, I'm currently updating all those links and build paths anyway... this will soon move to there

[AccidentalDisassembly]

2 hours ago, Rudolf Meier said:

ok, all bugs fixed in IR (minor things) and now I'm working on KJR ... I do now have a situation in which I see the problem... and I'm asking myself, if it ever worked in the old KJR?

You know, if you're referring to KIS/KAS stuff... Now that you mention it, I'm not sure if it actually DID work in old KJR! Hmmm...

1 hour ago, Rudolf Meier said:

ok, everything fixed and uploaded...

for 3 versions of KSP (1.2.2, 1.3.1 and 1.4)

 

OK, Here's what I can confirm:

1. The stutters in the VAB when messing with symmetry are gone!

2. The parts now correctly update the speed/accel that gets applied in VAB to all symmetry parts in flight!

3. AND it appears (very brief test, so...) that the new KJR allows KAS things to move/fire/stick! Hooray!

That's pretty sweet IMO.

[Rudolf Meier]

11 minutes ago, AccidentalDisassembly said:

You know, if you're referring to KIS/KAS stuff... Now that you mention it, I'm not sure if it actually DID work in old KJR! Hmmm...

OK, Here's what I can confirm:

1. The stutters in the VAB when messing with symmetry are gone!

2. The parts now correctly update the speed/accel that gets applied in VAB to all symmetry parts in flight!

3. AND it appears (very brief test, so...) that the new KJR allows KAS things to move/fire/stick! Hooray!

That's pretty sweet IMO.

wow... the first "non-bug"-report  ... I think that's a good sign that we are on the correct path

[AccidentalDisassembly]

5 minutes ago, Rudolf Meier said:

wow... the first "non-bug"-report  ... I think that's a good sign that we are on the correct path

Sadly I also have a bug to report - scaled up large (5x size using my test configs), the parts either A) don't work at all, if values remain similar to smaller-scaled parts (e.g. torque ~20, speed and accel in single digits). Or, if torque is left at the value it's given by the scaling (150), operating the parts instantly destroys the parts themselves and the launch pad.  So something is still broken with respect to scaling - what I don't understand is why on earth this should be broken for SOME scale values (bigger than 1.29, or bigger than 1.5, or whatever) but not others.

You would think the scaling would either work for all values or work poorly for all values, but not work for anything under some arbitrary number...

Edited March 12, 2018 by AccidentalDisassembly

[AccidentalDisassembly]

38 minutes ago, Rudolf Meier said:

wow... the first "non-bug"-report  ... I think that's a good sign that we are on the correct path

OK, I've done some testing by rewriting the scaletype again.

The magic number is 1.5, for some unknown reason. Parts can be scaled to 1.3, 1.45, 1.475, 1.500,  but as soon as the parts are 1.525x scale, they will no longer move in flight, it seems.

EDIT: Seems the number is not EXACTLY 1.500 - I tried a scale set to 1.50001, and it will extend in flight, but 1.55 will not. Perhaps something is being rounded - my hypothesis is that 1.549 will work, but 1.55 will not (because something is checking for >= 1.5 after rounding...? maybe?)

Edited March 12, 2018 by AccidentalDisassembly

[kcs123]

36 minutes ago, AccidentalDisassembly said:

You know, if you're referring to KIS/KAS stuff... Now that you mention it, I'm not sure if it actually DID work in old KJR! Hmmm...

I was not certain, so I just checked with old IR plugin and old KJR with very similar craft. Guess what, KJR autostruting on rope bug was present in old KJR too.
I would not say that I'm sorry about reporting that bug, becasue I'm glad that it is fixed

22 minutes ago, AccidentalDisassembly said:

Sadly I also have a bug to report - scaled up large (5x size using my test configs), the parts either A) don't work at all, if values remain similar to smaller-scaled parts (e.g. torque ~20, speed and accel in single digits). Or, if torque is left at the value it's given by the scaling (150), operating the parts instantly destroys the parts themselves and the launch pad.  So something is still broken with respect to scaling - what I don't understand is why on earth this should be broken for SOME scale values (bigger than 1.29, or bigger than 1.5, or whatever) but not others.

You would think the scaling would either work for all values or work poorly for all values, but not work for anything under some arbitrary number...

I think that it is reason why old IR plugin was having same strong joints for all parts, not increasing or decreasing with tweakscale.
Have yet to test new version of plugin, probably not be possible until tommorow evening.

Anyhow, I'm happy to see progress in development.

[Rudolf Meier]

18 minutes ago, AccidentalDisassembly said:

OK, I've done some testing by rewriting the scaletype again.

The magic number is 1.5, for some unknown reason. Parts can be scaled to 1.3, 1.45, 1.475, 1.500,  but as soon as the parts are 1.525x scale, they will no longer move in flight, it seems.

It has to do with mass... maybe... but when I remove all mass scaling, then it scales cubic and then everything works...

[AccidentalDisassembly]

Just now, Rudolf Meier said:

It has to do with mass... maybe... but when I remove all mass scaling, then it scales cubic and then everything works...

The magic number is closer to 1.511 than 1.5, things scaled to 1.510 will extend, 1.512 will not... bizarre

[viperwolf]

Im confused on what just happened lol Did you update KJR to work with KAS? Or did you update IR to fix the conflict?

[Rudolf Meier]

2 minutes ago, viperwolf said:

Im confused on what just happened lol Did you update KJR to work with KAS?

Yes... the KJR included in my download contains many fixes not related to IR

[ZodiusInfuser]

28 minutes ago, AccidentalDisassembly said:

The magic number is 1.5, for some unknown reason. Parts can be scaled to 1.3, 1.45, 1.475, 1.500,  but as soon as the parts are 1.525x scale, they will no longer move in flight, it seems.

Are these just scales your testing? Because for the rework parts at least those scales were chosen for specific reasons and should be kept.

 

[viperwolf]

Just now, Rudolf Meier said:

Yes... the KJR included in my download contains many fixes not related to IR

Thats incredible man, thank you very much. It looks like alot of work, my hats off to you. You are fixing issues that have been around for a very long time.

[AccidentalDisassembly]

3 minutes ago, ZodiusInfuser said:

Are these just scales your testing? Because for the rework parts at least those scales were chosen for specific reasons and should be kept.

 

Yes, these are in my personal IR test config - as I mentioned before, I've done nothing to the scaletypes included already in the mod (other than change them to MM patches with the idea in mind that the modules will be removed from the part configs). EDIT: Also, those patches (the unchanged scaletype ones) aren't included in the current DL, they're just hanging out in dropbox if anyone wants to use them.

EDIT2: Also, I should mention that I understand why they were chosen for the stacking telescopic extendatrons, but they're very arbitrary for the rest of the parts.

Edited March 12, 2018 by AccidentalDisassembly

[ZodiusInfuser]

Just now, AccidentalDisassembly said:

Yes, these are in my personal IR test config - as I mentioned before, I've done nothing to the scaletypes included already in the mod (other than change them to MM patches with the idea in mind that the modules will be removed from the part configs).

Ah okay, apologies. As you were.

[Rudolf Meier]

*hmm* ... I'm scaling to 5 now and... it works... with extendatrons at least

... oh, no... now I see it... *hmm* ...

I can make everything very strong... and then it bends in strange ways and breaks... when I move the joints...

Edited March 12, 2018 by Rudolf Meier

[Rudolf Meier]

ok, I know what it is... it seems that TweakScale is also scaling the size of the AttachNode... and if this size is >= 2, KSP doesn't use 1 but 3 joints between parts... you're right with > 1.5... this rounds up to 2 and then we have too many joints

either we need to talk to @pelinor (I think he's developing this, right?) or... we should never scale a moving part > 1.5

and by the way... I wasn't able to make TweakScale ignoring the "mass" when scaling... no idea if my cfg was wrong or if that's another problem with TweakScale? ... (but I guess it's my config...)

... ok, there's also another option... I could rewrite IR so that it can handle those 3-joint joints... for huge parts... but... well...

Edited March 13, 2018 by Rudolf Meier