Rudolf Meier

[WIP] Infernal Robotics - Next

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1 minute ago, kcs123 said:

... And could not agree more, it is quite nice mod ...

Uhm, I meant "niche" as the one, rarely finding an application, but still glad you're finding it "nice" :)

 

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so far I didn't find big problems... but what I found is this

1) inside the VAB (maybe also in flight mode) the gui seems to be a little bit slow (building up and hiding)... this can be improved... and I've already done something. This will be in the next patch

2) when comming out of timewarp, we have strange value shifts in the gui (e.g. a servo that was on 12 could be at 12.02) ... this one was due to a design decision... I've changed that now

3) when you use a docking port as endeffector to grab other parts, then those parts (when docked) seem to be wrongly positioned... that's something I don't know where it comes from and I will investigate this in the next days... this is the only bug I currently know of, but maybe I'll find others on my way to Duna :)

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for all those who are waiting for KJR... I did upload my version again

in the next days I will develop a new version from that which should be better balanced and hopefully generate less computational workload

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3 hours ago, Rudolf Meier said:

so far I didn't find big problems... but what I found is this

3) when you use a docking port as endeffector to grab other parts, then those parts (when docked) seem to be wrongly positioned... that's something I don't know where it comes from and I will investigate this in the next days... this is the only bug I currently know of, but maybe I'll find others on my way to Duna :)

I understand this one and the fix should be easy... but needs some analysis first

4) The "Engage Lock" is something I still don't like... why? because it doesn't work on uncontrolled joints and this shows the main problem of it... it is currently locking the motor of the joint. Now, without motor, you can't lock anything. And with motor, you can only lock it with the force of the motor. That's why I'm thinking about some kind of brake that I could add into those joints... it will most likely be what I will do, but it's not decided yet... I think this will be in the next patch as well

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I have fixed all the problems I found and released as Beta4, Patch1

and KJR Next is online...

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On 5/3/2019 at 8:42 PM, Rudolf Meier said:

That's why I'm thinking about some kind of brake that I could add into those joints... it will most likely be what I will do, but it's not decided yet... I think this will be in the next patch as well

You could just autostrut the thing. I managed to use moveable (big) wings with the Classic Infernal Robotics using AutoStruts to Grand-Parent on everthing those grand-parent would not be a moveable part. By adding a auto-strut on it, the motors weren't enough to move the thing. 

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12 hours ago, Lisias said:

You could just autostrut the thing. I managed to use moveable (big) wings with the Classic Infernal Robotics using AutoStruts to Grand-Parent on everthing those grand-parent would not be a moveable part. By adding a auto-strut on it, the motors weren't enough to move the thing. 

yeah... but that would generate a new joint and I try to avoid as many joints as possible. I only build them for limits because there it simply isn't possible otherwise (because joint limits are limited to 177° in Unity).

anway... it's already solved and in the Patch1

currently the only "bug" I know is, that a joint that is root (which can only happen when you decouple it somehow) does not work anymore... but since nothing is attached to it, it doesn't matter wheter or not it moves this "nothing"... so, the only negative effect of this is having entries in the log

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6 hours ago, Rudolf Meier said:

... the only negative effect of this is having entries in the log

ok, that's not true... the base remains where it was and when you move the part you can get strange situations in which this far away part still acts like connected :) ... anyway... really a minor thing and I will fix that later... so far: don't put decouplers directly below an IR part (above is ok)...

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Posted (edited)

Did ever someone try to use a docking port as an end effector on a robotic arm? That's just horrible and almost not working (with stock docking ports) ... that's the "missing link"...

now, why do I say this? because I want to complain about KSP? ... no :) ... for marketing reasons ... I'll tell you more about that soon...

 

oh and by the way... I was also thinking about a possibility to have a constant rotation on some parts... didn't decide yet what I will do, but might be useful for those who want to build helicopters and stuff like that

Edited by Rudolf Meier

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Rudolf Meier said:

Did ever someone try to use a docking port as an end effector on a robotic arm? That's just horrible and almost not working (with stock docking ports) ... that's the "missing link"...

That is long known issue from old IR plugin and interaction between IR and unity/KSP. It worked more less properly until KSP 0.90 or some other close release, can't recall exactly from top of my head. There is evem mention about it in OP in old IR thread.

Best semi-working workarounf combination is to place some IR part-> structural part-> docking port on one craft and on oposite craft in oposite order dock port->structural part -> IR part an other parts.

Also, if you dock craft with a lot of IR parts with some other craft with IR parts, positions of IR parts can be messed up, especialy if you have some IR parts on at least one craft placed in mirror or symmetry. Can't recall exact details what is happening with it, I tried it once with old IR long, long time ago. Might be more info with more details in old IR plugin thread.

Since I found of issue, I started to avoid too complicated crafts with IR parts. Still, it is possible to create some kind of candarm for sattelite deploymend or catching from/in cargo bay if you respect this:some IR part-> structural part-> docking port . Also there is some video from KSP streamers with using magnet attachment to attach/deatatch candarm to ship, but you need within arm control probe and power source, so whole candarm can be considered as whole craft from KSP game engine point of view.

Edited by kcs123

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23 minutes ago, kcs123 said:

That is long known issue ...

... it is possible to create some kind of candarm ... using magnet attachment to attach/deatatch candarm to ship, but you need within arm control probe and power source ...

That's not enough for me :rolleyes: ... and it was the main reason for IR Next. I will present you some kind of SSRMS or Canadarm2 or "walking arm" when I've built the last module.

By the way... I'm looking for someone who could do a youtube video about that... if someone is interested, then please contact me.

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I've just seen the news about the new DLC having robotics parts: 

Does anyone know about how they work (both from a user perspective and under the hood)? Wondering if they took any inspiration from IR at all for this, or went their own way. Also I only see two robotics parts in their teaser pictures (see their imgur album for the other picture). The Pivotron fits with their big trusses, and the rotatron looks like a 0.625m part, so don't fully overlap with what IR and the Rework offers.

P.S. Hi btw ;)

 

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46 minutes ago, ZodiusInfuser said:

I've just seen the news about the new DLC having robotics parts: 

Does anyone know about how they work (both from a user perspective and under the hood)? Wondering if they took any inspiration from IR at all for this, or went their own way. Also I only see two robotics parts in their teaser pictures (see their imgur album for the other picture). The Pivotron fits with their big trusses, and the rotatron looks like a 0.625m part, so don't fully overlap with what IR and the Rework offers.

P.S. Hi btw ;)

Hi :) ...

I guess they use the modules that were in the game for a long time (but unused). But I don't know...

What I know is... that we should have a release soon for IR Next... a real release with CKAN listing and stuff like that... and I think, the code is ready. Some little bugfix for situation that are almost never happening and then... we let it fly (hopefully save).

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4 hours ago, Rudolf Meier said:

That's not enough for me :rolleyes: ... and it was the main reason for IR Next. I will present you some kind of SSRMS or Canadarm2 or "walking arm" when I've built the last module.

By all means, I didn't won't to discourage you to not fix it. If you get idea where kraken comes from and have time and will power to put it away, go for it. I just get back from trip, so didn't have time to search for exact posts, so just wnated to point out where you can look for more info about that issue.

Wonder if stock game have encountered and solve same issues that were discovered trough IR development or it will bring some more kraken food.

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On 5/5/2019 at 5:32 AM, Rudolf Meier said:

currently the only "bug" I know is, that a joint that is root (which can only happen when you decouple it somehow) does not work anymore... but since nothing is attached to it, it doesn't matter wheter or not it moves this "nothing"... so, the only negative effect of this is having entries in the log

This could happen quite easily with KAS/KIS.  I'm curious how much IR would freak out if you completely detached something, then built it into some other vessel (but not enough to give it a try just at the moment :) ).

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1 minute ago, mbaryu said:

This could happen quite easily with KAS/KIS.  I'm curious how much IR would freak out if you completely detached something, then built it into some other vessel (but not enough to give it a try just at the moment :) ).

:) ... yeah, ok... detaching it with KAS/KIS and reattach it... that's something I didn't plan for, but it's not hard to add this capability... let's say it is about... 5 to 8 lines of code... maybe one 'if' and some value resets or something like that

I guess you can always find a way to destroy it... but, it's a good point and I'm sure I will fix this in a future version

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1 hour ago, Rudolf Meier said:

Hi :) ...

I guess they use the modules that were in the game for a long time (but unused). But I don't know...

What I know is... that we should have a release soon for IR Next... a real release with CKAN listing and stuff like that... and I think, the code is ready. Some little bugfix for situation that are almost never happening and then... we let it fly (hopefully save).

Quite possibly, or they have actually spent the time and written new code for it. Also, I see a piston I did not spot in my previous view of the teaser images, so that covers the essentials for what KSP players new to robotics would want. So that's how IR should be pitched, for those players wanting more, not just in terms of parts but depth of control too.

And if it turns out their system is better than IR in every way (because it's developed with game engine knowledge) then I guess I'll be porting the Model Rework over to it :P 

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, ZodiusInfuser said:

And if it turns out their system is better than IR in every way (because it's developed with game engine knowledge) then I guess I'll be porting the Model Rework over to it :P 

*um* ... it's not better ... :cool:

Edited by Rudolf Meier

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17 minutes ago, ZodiusInfuser said:

And if it turns out their system is better than IR in every way (because it's developed with game engine knowledge) then I guess I'll be porting the Model Rework over to it :P 

My guess is that it should not be hard to port your models to work over stock robotics modules. Should be just about writting config files/modules properly for parts and meshes for parts should not require any cahnges. 3D models/meshes should be the same unity assets for both stock and moded plugin. Only difference might be how SQUAD have handled moving limits and if they allow collisions within craft parts or not.

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2 minutes ago, kcs123 said:

Only difference might be how SQUAD have handled moving limits and if they allow collisions within craft parts or not.

Yes... and there they don't have many options. The collisions is something we do have too now and the limits is something Unity defines.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, kcs123 said:

By all means, I didn't won't to discourage you to not fix it. If you get idea where kraken comes from and have time and will power to put it away, go for it.

;) ... no, I knew what you meant. It is almost solved... I'm testing... as I said, the question was more marketing than a real question...

as usual I only have the problem to know which values are in which space... e.g. is the targetRotation of a joint related to the part, the joint, the joints axis, global or the connectedPart :) 

Edited by Rudolf Meier

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Posted (edited)

I have uploaded Beta 4 Patch 2

it contains a lot of bugfixes and improvements (but it could be that loading old saves does not work... some variable names changed... I hope for the last time now)

thanks to the help of @ZodiusInfuser it was possible to find and fix them

 

but, we are still working on 2 minor issues...

Edited by Rudolf Meier

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9 minutes ago, Rudolf Meier said:

thanks to the help of @ZodiusInfuser it was possible to find and fix them

but, we are still working on 2 minor issues...

Note that I have not done a thorough testing pass of it yet (Ziw used to hate it when I did that previously but it did find a lot of bugs!)

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Beta 4, Patch 2b is online

I've fixed the 2 minor issues...

servos do now also handle the "stuck" situation... might be that this handling needs some tuning, but at the moment I think it's ok

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Thanks for keeping this updated , appreciate the effort .

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