How to use Mobile Processing Lab

[Pawelk198604]

I heard that it can be used to generate science indefinitely  but how, with science modules generate it's the most?

[Clipperride]

A Mobile  Processing Lab can be used indefinitely, but you do need to keep it topped up with data from science experiments.  

To use the Laboratory, you first need to collect science data, by conducting experiments in a particular biome, as you do to gain Science Points.  Instead of returning home to the Space Centre, go and dock with your Lab.  Ideally the laboratory will be in orbit around a planet or moon (although they don't have to be!)

You can then open the Labs information window and Process the data.  The more data you have to process (up to a limit) the more Science Points per day the Lab produces.  Those points can be sent back to the Space Centre by using the "Transmit Science" command.

Hope that helps.

[Atkara]

Here's a rough description on how it goes:

• Do the experiments and take them to the MPL. You can store them to the MPL itself or in any other module that can hold them. 1 scientist at least has to be in it, out of 2 max. The higher the scientist's level, the faster the research.
• Review the data: A new option appears to put them in queue for processing. Depending on the level of your R&D lab, back on Kerbin, each MPL can store up to 750 data
• When the queue is full, press 'start research'. Let it do it's thing, until science output reaches 500 (max capacity). Transmit the science, fill up the data queue if needed, rinse and repeat until you're out of experiments and data.
• According to the Wiki, you get the most science out of an MPL, if it's processing the experiments on the surface of the planet/moon they're coming from. Doing it in orbit of the said planet/moon yields 10% less. Don't take them to be processed on Kerbin, or you'll suffer a huge penalty -unless the data originated from Kerbin ofcourse.
• Have adequate batteries and sufficient power generation: solar panels, fuel cells, RTGs, or all of them together. And bring a really good antenna to transmit the science, like the Communotron HG-55 or 88-88

That's it.

PS: You're not restricted to a single MPL on, or in orbit around a body. Also, if you use KAC, you can add alarms to notify you when the science is ready to be transmitted -there's a section, dedicated to it.

Edited February 25, 2018 by Atkara

[Pawelk198604]

6 minutes ago, Atkara said:

Here's a rough description on how it goes:

• Do the experiments and take them to the MPL. You can store them to the MPL itself or in any other module that can hold them. 1 scientist at least has to be in it, out of 2 max. The higher the scientist's level, the faster the research.
• Review the data: A new option appears to put them in queue for processing. Depending on the level of your R&D lab, back on Kerbin, each MPL can store up to 750 data
• When the queue is full, press 'start research'. Let it do it's thing, until science output reaches 500 (max capacity). Transmit the science, fill up the data queue if needed, rinse and repeat until you're out of experiments and data.
• According to the Wiki, you get the most science out of an MPL, if it's processing the experiments on the surface of the planet/moon they're coming from. Doing it in orbit of the said planet/moon yields 10% less. Don't take them to be processed on Kerbin, or you'll suffer a huge penalty -unless the data originated from Kerbin ofcourse.
• Have adequate batteries and sufficient power generation: solar panels, fuel cells, RTGs, or all of them together. And bring a really good antenna to transmit the science, like the Communotron HG-55 or 88-88

That's it.

PS: You're not restricted to a single MPL on or in orbit around a body.

And how to send "Space Station" to orbit in most economical way, i means something like Skaylab or Salyut?

[Atkara]

1 minute ago, Pawelk198604 said:

And how to send "Space Station" to orbit in most economical way, i means something like Skaylab or Salyut?

That's an unexpected question...

It depends. Where do you plan to send it?

[eddiew]

4 minutes ago, Pawelk198604 said:

And how to send "Space Station" to orbit in most economical way, i means something like Skaylab or Salyut?

Same as any other payload; by whatever makes sense   Remember to account for the MPL's power requirements.

[Streetwind]

2 hours ago, Clipperride said:

A Mobile  Processing Lab can be used indefinitely

Slight disclaimer: the Mobile Processing Lab can be used indefinitely, but a Mobile Processing Lab cannot.

A lab will accept each scientific experiment exactly once. So at some point, you're going to run out of science to put into the lab - especially if you're unwilling or unable to move it.

However, the game doesn't keep track of what you have researched in the lab... the lab itself keeps track of that. Meaning if you launch a new, different lab, it has no idea of what you have already done with the old one, and will accept the same experiments again. This way you can indeed generate science indefinitely - but you do occasionally have to replace the lab!

[Gargamel]

Reading through the Wiki, I noticed a couple things....

1) Diminishing returns.  It seem that the Data consumption rate is constant, while the science produced reduces as the amount of data remaining declines.  Almost Zeno's paradoxically.  Confirm?

2)  Does the context bonus (25%) apply to when the data is created from the experiment, or do you lose data if you switch ROI's later? 

[GrouchyDevotee]

I've had good success with a simple-ish setup,

Rocket parts to launch and stage, the final rocket motor and fuel tank don't have to separate, a lab, a hitch-hiker can,  a mk 2 lander can, and a mk 1 crew cabin on top, with a docking collar.

some solar panels, adequate batteries are important, a few lights in case you have to dock to it in the dark, and don't forget to include some antennas.

Launch a Kerballed or unKerballed mission to both the Mun and Minmus, collect a bunch of science, return and dock.

You will Science up.

 

[bewing]

1 hour ago, Gargamel said:

Reading through the Wiki, I noticed a couple things....

1) Diminishing returns.  It seem that the Data consumption rate is constant, while the science produced reduces as the amount of data remaining declines.  Almost Zeno's paradoxically.  Confirm?

No, the data consumption rate drops too, as a percentage of the maximum.

1 hour ago, Gargamel said:

2)  Does the context bonus (25%) apply to when the data is created from the experiment, or do you lose data if you switch ROI's later? 

Yes, it's applied at the moment of processing.

 

[Gargamel]

2 minutes ago, bewing said:

No, the data consumption rate drops too, as a percentage of the maximum.

So it seems the labs will produce science for a very long time, but only significant amounts for a short time?

Edited February 26, 2018 by Gargamel

[Streetwind]

Yes. You always get five science points for every point of data present, but if you want a speedy production of science, you need to keep the data storage topped up.

The processing rate never drops to zero, so the lab will eventually finish all of its data, but it may take some time for it to run completely empty.

[mikey117]

Not sure if you are aware (noones really mentioned it) but you will also need one /two scientists onboard to begin research.

It also helps to get your scientists to atleast level 2 before starting research, Will generate science quicker.

[Atkara]

I mentioned it

[Kryxal]

It's also worth remembering that you can store the various experiments without processing them, then process them later when you have the space in the lab.

[Atkara]

4 hours ago, Kryxal said:

It's also worth remembering that you can store the various experiments without processing them, then process them later when you have the space in the lab.

Yep. You can store them on any module that can hold them: pod, hitchhiker module, experiment storage unit or the MPL itself. As long as both the MPL and the 'x' module, belong to the same vessel/assembly, the experiments are available for processing.

I did cover that as well, but I chose to use rather simple wording, in a step-by-step format -had my reasons.

[boccelounge]

On 2/25/2018 at 3:29 PM, Clipperride said:

The more data you have to process (up to a limit) the more Science Points per day the Lab produces.

Thanks for that-- the MPL is not new to me; in my current SAVE I have 8-10 of them in various locations...  But I always forget that caveat.  I'll look at "Science/day," do some quick division, set an alarm to check the lab, and constantly wonder why it hasn't quite finished generating data...  what's the emoticon for *facepalm*?

Anyway, much appreciated info in this thread-- thanks to all.

Edited February 26, 2018 by boccelounge

[Clipperride]

1 hour ago, boccelounge said:

Thanks for that-- the MPL is not new to me; in my current SAVE I have 8-10 of them in various locations...  

I like to fill the Lab up with the full 750 units of data, then have 3 or 4 experiment results ready to go.  That way, each time you transmit some science back home, you can top up the amount of work the lab has to do.

[Gargamel]

16 hours ago, boccelounge said:

Thanks for that-- the MPL is not new to me; in my current SAVE I have 8-10 of them in various locations...  But I always forget that caveat.  I'll look at "Science/day," do some quick division, set an alarm to check the lab, and constantly wonder why it hasn't quite finished generating data...  what's the emoticon for *facepalm*?

Anyway, much appreciated info in this thread-- thanks to all.

Since  it appears you have KAC, you can set a "science" alarm. It accounts for the diminshing returns on the science, and is accurate within about 1-2 science points.   So stop doing what I was also doing, running the numbers yourself and wondering why the labs aren't full.    Just click "add alarm" in KAC, then on the far right of the types of alarms, there's a beaker, click that. 

[jpinard]

I'm a little confused on how to use this properly.  I just unlocked the lab and want to put it into Orbit around Kerbin.  But I've already done most of the science options in and around Kerbin and its moons.  Was I supposed to leave some science not done so I could give it to the lab?  Can I do the experiments over again to collect data bits so the lab will have something to do when orbiting Kerbin?  Feel like I may have made a big mistake if that's the case.  

Is the lab basically a "science multiplier"?  

[Zhetaan]

In order:

35 minutes ago, jpinard said:

Was I supposed to leave some science not done so I could give it to the lab?

No.  You can consider turning experiments into data for labs and recovery of experiments at the KSC to be two completely separate activities.

35 minutes ago, jpinard said:

Can I do the experiments over again to collect data bits so the lab will have something to do when orbiting Kerbin?

You can obtain science from experiments that you've already turned in by doing them over again.  The experiment window will show zero value for recovery and transmission, but so long as you have not already processed that experiment at that lab, a lab will still take the experiment and turn it into data.  For example, if you've already taken a crew report in high orbit and recovered it for full value, then you can take another crew report in high orbit and process it in a science lab for even more science.  I don't know how it gets more science--maybe Kerbal scientists are excellent proofreaders--but it does.

35 minutes ago, jpinard said:

Is the lab basically a "science multiplier"?  

Yes and no.  You can use a lab without recovering a single experiment.  You can also refuse to use the lab at all--a lot of people refuse to use the lab out of a conviction that it is overpowered--and rely solely on experiment recovery.  I meant what I wrote earlier about lab processing and experiment recovery being essentially two different processes.  It is an alternative avenue to obtain science points, in much the same fashion that doing certain missions (or using certain science parts while on missions) can also yield science points without requiring recovery.  However, it is also true that experiments processed by the lab have an increase in science value over recovered experiments, so in that sense, it is a science multiplier.

Edited July 2, 2019 by Zhetaan

[jpinard]

8 minutes ago, Zhetaan said:

In order:

No.  You can consider turning experiments into data for labs and recovery of experiments at the KSC to be two completely separate activities.

You can obtain science from experiments that you've already turned in by doing them over again.  The experiment window will show zero value for recovery and transmission, but so long as you have not already processed that experiment at that lab, a lab will still take the experiment and turn it into data.  For example, if you've already taken a crew report in high orbit and recovered it for full value, then you can take another crew report in high orbit and process it in a science lab for even more science.  I don't know how it gets more science--maybe Kerbal scientists are excellent proofreaders--but it does.

Yes and no.  You can use a lab without recovering a single experiment.  You can also refuse to use the lab at all--a lot of people refuse to use the lab out of a conviction that it is overpowered--and rely solely on experiment recovery.  I meant what I wrote earlier about lab processing and experiment recovery being essentially two different processes.  It is an alternative avenue to obtain science points, in much the same fashion that doing certain missions (or using certain science parts while on missions) can also yield science points without requiring recovery.  However, it is also true that experiments processed by the lab have an increase in science value over recovered experiments, so in that sense, it is a science multiplier.

OK Thanks!

I have another sciencey question.  Do you think you could answer it too?

 

[Geschosskopf]

18 hours ago, Zhetaan said:

You can obtain science from experiments that you've already turned in by doing them over again.  The experiment window will show zero value for recovery and transmission, but so long as you have not already processed that experiment at that lab, a lab will still take the experiment and turn it into data.  For example, if you've already taken a crew report in high orbit and recovered it for full value, then you can take another crew report in high orbit and process it in a science lab for even more science.  I don't know how it gets more science--maybe Kerbal scientists are excellent proofreaders--but it does.

I haven't used an MPL in quite a while so I'm wondering if it still works the same way as before...

The way I recall it working was that the data being processed by the MPL and the experimental results returned or transmitted by the ship worked on 2 separate but semi-related systems.  The fundamental difference was that returned/transmitted experimental results were always specific, discrete entities ("EVA report from KSC Launchpad") whereas the MPL's data was a generalized pool of "data points".  The 2 were related in that when you put a given experimental result into the MPL, this added some number of "data points" to the MPL's pool (the amount was based on a complicated formula).  HOWEVER, doing this did NOT destroy the original experimental result, so basically, the MPL "copied" the experimental result.  Thus, you could still return or transmit the original experimental result and meanwhile, the MPL would function essentially like an ISRU, gradually converting irs pool of "data points" into Science Points.

It was this "copying" that led to the MPL being considered OP.  You could put an MPL in Minmus or Mun orbit, have your lander stop there on its way home with the experimental results, and (after a fair amount of time) end up with way more Science Points than just the lander would get.  The balance trade-off was having to build and staff the MPL, both of which cost money, and performing docking.  And the rationalization was that the MPL, by combining the results of all the experiments, could make breakthroughs impossible from just the individual experimental results.  Of course, the counter-argument was that the R&D facility at KSC also could combine all the experimental results.  So the counter-counter-argument was the usual shtick used by folks wanting to send people to Mars:  2 sleep-deprived, half-starved Kerbals fighting microgravity in a small tincan are magically better able to figure things out than a whole complex of well-rested, replete, PhDs with their feet firmly on the ground, simply due to their proximity to the mystical source.

Does it still work this way?

[Zhetaan]

1 hour ago, Geschosskopf said:

Does it still work this way?

Some of it does, and some does not.  Processing an experiment for data destroys the experiment, and it's been that way since v1.1, I think.  However, it is still true that the labs can take a second experiment result and process it for far more science than you get from recovery of the first.  However, it takes in-game months for that to happen.

I certainly see your point about two one-star scientists floating in space somehow being able to generate more science from an experiment than all the facilities of R&D simply because the lab is closer to the origin point (it's not as though crew reports go bad), and that part does still work that way.  For this reason, some still insist that the lab is overpowered (and to be fair, I'm one of them), but I know how to edit .cfg files and most of the lab's underlying functionality is exposed in its file.

One tweak in particular that I like is to cut the data-to-science conversion by ninety percent:  rather than data somehow being worth five times the original experiment, it caps at half.  Since I tend to play with life support mods and with science turned most of the way down (though I'm not a nanocrystalline diamond player; those people are more dedicated to masochism than I'll ever be), it provides a way for me to give myself a bit of extra science that justifies the expense of staffing and supplying a science station off-world, but without also totally replacing the value of experiment return.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Zhetaan

[Geschosskopf]

12 minutes ago, Zhetaan said:

It does not.  Processing an experiment for data destroys the experiment, and it's been that way since v1.1, I think.  However, it is still true that the labs can take a second experiment result and process it for far more science than you get from recovery of the first.  However, it takes in-game months for that to happen.  Some still insist that the lab is overpowered, and to be fair, I'm one of them, but I know how to edit .cfg files and most of the lab's underlying functionality is exposed in its file.

Ah, thanks

So, from what you're saying, I gather it works like this:

1. Build your lander with a Science Container
2. Run all experiments and put the results in the container
3. Run all the experiments again and put the results in the pod
4. Stop at an MPL on the way home and drop off 1 set of results (and refuel lander and repeat for other biomes if possible)
5. Return the set of results remaining in the lander
6. Months later, get more Science! than if you'd just returned both sets of experiments without stopping at the MPL

How much more does the MPL get you than returning 2 copies?