theonegalen

[1.3.1-1.5.1] UBM Extended TechTree configs 3.0 - Porkjet Tankbutt Switching! Making History, Missing History, and more!

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Version 3.0 is released on Spacedock!

How to install:

Spoiler

1. Get the original:

2. Get the Extension: 

https://spacedock.info/mod/1720/UnmannedBeforeManned - Extended Mod Configs

IMPORTANT: If you are updating from v.2.0 of the mod, make sure to completely delete the Galen/UBM_Extended folder from your GameData before installing v.3.0! If you're using any of the mods that use the CTT Naval Branch, remove the old "GameData/Ships" folder, and download the updated version from https://spacedock.info/mod/1283/Community Tech Tree Naval Branch.

I've been playing with UnmannedBeforeManned for a long time. In that time, I've made UBM configs for a bunch of mods. In the past, I've sent them to Yemo and had them integrated into the main UBM mod, but Yemo hasn't been answering my PMs. Therefore, I've decided to release what I have as an add-on for UBM. As UBM is released under an ARR license, I have not modified or redistributed anything from UBM, and you will need it to use these configs. 

Configs included:

Spoiler

Making History Expansion
SQUAD / Stock

Aircraft Carrier Accessories
AirplanePlus
Cormorant Aeronology / Shuttle Lifting Body and Block II
Davon Supply Mod
Extraplanetary Launch Pads
Grounded
Kerbal Aircraft Expansion
kerBalloons
Maritime Pack (requires CTT Naval Branch released by PDelta41 - no longer included because mod was updated!)
Mark IV System
Missing History (ALSO ADDS STOCK VARIANT SWITCH SUPPORT FOR PORKJET OVERHAULS - UBM NOT REQUIRED!)
OpenCockpit
SETI Part Overhauls - Still included, but not updated. I recommend using Missing History instead.
SM_Marine (very basic)
SXT Continued
Taerobee
WildBlueIndustries: BARIS, DSEV, Heisenberg, and MOLE
Ven's Stock Revamp

 

Dependencies:

Unmanned Before Manned, by Yemo - required

Community Tech Tree, by Nertea - recommended

ModuleManager, by sarbian. - required

Hide Empty Tech Tree Nodes, by ev0. - recommended

Community Tech Tree Naval Branch, by Pdelta41 - Required for Aircraft Carrier Accessories, MaritimePack, and SM_Marine

 

License: CC BY-NC-SA 3.0

This mod contains models and textures by Porkjet and SQUAD, released under the CC-BY-NC 3.0 License.

 

Changelog

Spoiler

Version 3.0: added .version file.

Updated Configs for

  • SQUAD / Stock KSP
  • Making History Expansion
  • Missing History
  • AirplanePlus
  • Grounded 
  • OpenCockpit
  • KAX
  • BARIS
  • MaritimePack
  • SXT
  • SoundingRockets (thanks to @severedsolo)

Version 2.0:

New TechTree Configs for

  • Making History Expansion
  • Cormorant Aeronology / Shuttle Lifting Body and Block II
  • Davon Supply Mod
  • Grounded
  • Missing History
  • SETI Part Overhauls

Updated Configs for

  • SQUAD / Stock KSP
  • SXT Continued - now works with the whole mod!

Optional Configs

  • hide parts duplicated between Making History and SETI Part Overhauls
  • hide mk2pod if MOLE is installed
  • hide other duplicate parts between mods.

Version 1.0: Initial release.

Edited by theonegalen

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A small update: I'm currently working on configs to update Unmanned Before Manned to 1.4.1 and the Making History DLC. Right now, I'm working on balancing the RK-7 against early LV-series rockets, and making it upgradable throughout the Tech Tree, just as the RD-107 has gone through many upgrades in history.

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What do these configs do? Is it you placing those mod parts where they'd make more sense in a UbM tree?

Also, what happens if you don't have one (or more) of the mods you mention? Will it cause problems?

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11 hours ago, Jognt said:

What do these configs do? Is it you placing those mod parts where they'd make more sense in a UbM tree?

Also, what happens if you don't have one (or more) of the mods you mention? Will it cause problems?

Yes, specifically Unmanned Before Manned by Yemo. Most configs will depend on it, aside from Airplane Plus.

Shouldn't cause any problems, but let me know if anything does.

Edited by theonegalen

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MOD TALK:

Here's what I'm thinking about regarding Making History.

  • First, the R-7 "Bear" and the new Vernier Engine
    • It's based on the RD-107, the engine that launched Sputnik, and the basis for the RD-107A which currently powers the first one and a half stages of the Soyuz which services the ISS.
    • It's stock attributes are identical, identical, to the LV-T30 "Reliant." However, it appears two nodes further down the tech tree, making it completely useless for a career or science mode save.
    • Fix: move it up to Basic Rocketry, increase it's mass and decrease it's ISP and thrust to make it slightly better than Yemo's LV-T15 included in SETI Part Overhauls or UBM with Ven's Stock Revamp.
      • Making a Sputnik replica at those stats gives enough dV to get into solar orbit. Whee. I might tweak this some more.
      • I'm trying to decide if I should put the classic 1.875m side boosters in Basic Rocketry as well, or place them in General Rocketry with the radial decouplers. Once you get the Reliant and Swivel, there's not much point in using the Bear.
      • I'm using the stock upgrade system to allow it to continue to be used throughout a career save. Thrust and efficiency upgrades can be unlocked in the engine and fuel branches. If you want to play as Krussia and fly the same engine to LKO (with upgrades) for 60 years, you can!
      • Vernier also nerfed, in Basic Rocketry, and 
  • Second, the Saturn V parts.
    • The engines are all underpowered, and I think I know why. Tank mass ratios and engine balance in KSP are all already out of whack, but especially for the upper stage Saturn V parts, because they're all based on Kerolox instead of the cryogenic upper stages of the Saturn V - Kerosene is a lot denser, and therefore heavier in the same volume, than cryogenic H2. I haven't touched the ISPs of the engines as yet.
    • Fix: I've modified the engines to make them competitive, hopefully without making them ridiculous.
      • The J-2 analogue now has a mass of 1.5, with a vacuum thrust of 425, and is moved to Very Heavy Rocketry with the F-1 analogue. Balanced to the actual S-IVB stage TWR.
      • The F-1 analogue now has a SLT equal to that of the Mainsail at a fraction of the weight, but keeps the same 280/290 ISP so it falls behind as the Mainsail becomes more efficient at higher altitudes. Balanced to the actual S-IC stage TWR.
    • Once CryoEngines and CryoTanks is updated to support 1.4.1 and Making History, I will add a set of configs to turn the J-2 into a cryogenic rocket, which should help fix the TWR issues with Saturn V replicas.
  • Third, the 1.875m tanks and engines. 
    • Placed them in Advanced Rocketry with Yemo's 1.875m parts that appear if you use SETI Part Overhauls. I haven't made a Gemini-Titan replica just yet, but it will probably have more dV than the real thing.
  • Fourth, the new command pods.
    • Mk1-3 is where the Mk1-2 used to be for now. I'm considering making a custom IVA using the ASET props that fits out the mk1-3 with Apollo-era props under my Warbird Cockpits mod. Later.
    • Mk2 Command Pod (Gemini) is placed in Simple Command Modules. If you have MOLE installed, the Mk2 pod will be hidden and you'll have the Brumby instead.
    • MEM Lander is currently pushed back from Command Modules to Heavy Command Modules. Because no one is going to use the Mk2 Lander Can if the MEM is also available. Thinking of just hiding the Mk2 lander can if MH is installed. Because the Mk2 Lander Can is awful.

A question: should I set the SETI Part Overhaul 1.875 parts to hide when Making History is installed, or leave them be?  They are slightly different in length and capacity from the MH parts, but generally look like the stock 1.25m parts I might do it as an optional config. And @Angel-125's size 1.5 parts in MOLE are being refurbished and are looking really nice, so I'm thinking I might hide the SETI parts if those are installed as well.

Tagging users I know who might be interested or have opinions: @kcs123 @Jacke @Gordon Dry @Enceos @Spike88 @DStaal 

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Seems that you thought about it quite well. Can't give good opinion, I didn't have oportunity to play KSP 1.4.1 much, lot of mods still waiting to be updated and real life commitments kicked in at same time.

Only when I try new parts in game I will be able to tell if something need to be nerfed or boosted. Regarding tech tree node, I think that you got it well, but yet have to try it with some other mods to be able to tell if something need to be changed or not.

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21 hours ago, theonegalen said:

no one is going to use the Mk2 Lander Can if the MEM is also available. Thinking of just hiding the Mk2 lander can if MH is installed. Because the Mk2 Lander Can is awful.

It's awful, but it's also a different form-factor and I will still use it in some cases where I need to fit a command pod into a 2.5 m cylindrical stack.

I would suggest not hiding stock or other mod parts by default.  If users really want them gone, they can use the Janitor's Closet to make that happen.

Edited by RoboRay

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Worked on it last night and today while I should've been studying for my archaeology and prehistory test, and some things changed in the execution. I ended up putting the 1.875m tanks in a new "Early Fuel Systems" node instead.

@RoboRay I think you're right; the part hiding configs will be optional.

As soon as I finish integrating @Snark's Missing History parts as an optional alternative to SETI Part Overhauls, I will be ready for the next release.

EDIT: Ready to go. I'll upload tomorrow when I have a internet-capable computer, as typing the descriptions on my phone is terrible.

Edited by theonegalen

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15 hours ago, theonegalen said:

Worked on it last night and today while I should've been studying for my archaeology and prehistory test, and some things changed in the execution. I ended up putting the 1.875m tanks in a new "Early Fuel Systems" node instead.

@RoboRay I think you're right; the part hiding configs will be optional.

As soon as I finish integrating @Snark's Missing History parts as an optional alternative to SETI Part Overhauls, I will be ready for the next release.

EDIT: Ready to go. I'll upload tomorrow when I have a internet-capable computer, as typing the descriptions on my phone is terrible.

Awesome! Question though. so with this, will we be put in the current (1.3.1) version of UBM, and then add UBM Extended to bring it up to 1.4.1?

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4 hours ago, DracoSilverpath said:

Awesome! Question though. so with this, will we be put in the current (1.3.1) version of UBM, and then add UBM Extended to bring it up to 1.4.1?

Yes. First install the most recent (1.3.0.2) version of UBM and then add UBM Extended. :)

Version 2.0 is out!

Changes in this version:

New TechTree Configs for

  • Making History Expansion
  • Cormorant Aeronology / Shuttle Lifting Body and Block II
  • Davon Supply Mod
  • Grounded
  • Missing History
  • SETI Part Overhauls

Updated Configs for

  • SQUAD / Stock KSP
  • SXT Continued - now works with the whole mod!

Optional Configs

  • hide parts duplicated between Making History and SETI Part Overhauls
  • hide mk2pod if MOLE is installed
  • hide other duplicate parts between mods.

VERY IMPORTANT: If you are updating from v.1.0 of the mod, make sure to completely delete the Galen/TechTree folder from your GameData before installing v.2.0!

Edited by theonegalen

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35 minutes ago, theonegalen said:

Yes. First install the most recent (1.3.0.2) version of UBM and then add UBM Extended. :)

Version 2.0 is out!

Changes in this version:

New TechTree Configs for

  • Making History Expansion
  • Cormorant Aeronology / Shuttle Lifting Body and Block II
  • Davon Supply Mod
  • Grounded
  • Missing History
  • SETI Part Overhauls

Updated Configs for

  • SQUAD / Stock KSP

VERY IMPORTANT: If you are updating from v.1.0 of the mod, make sure to completely delete the Galen/TechTree folder from your GameData before installing v.2.0!

You the best! :) Another question. If we have additional mods that aren't integrated into the tree already, how do you go about placing the parts exactly?

 

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@DracoSilverpath, they're all set up through modulemanager configs. The original UBM has them all in a huge single config file sorted by tech node, but I put them in individual configs for each mod which helps figuring out when things are bugged.

Generally, if a mod is focused on end-game tech and has a Community Tech Tree config, it should work pretty well with UBM. If it's for the beginning of the tech tree, you'll need to make configs, and then playtest.

What mods are you referring to, specifically?

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1 minute ago, theonegalen said:

@DracoSilverpath, they're all set up through modulemanager configs. The original UBM has them all in a huge single config file sorted by tech node, but I put them in individual configs for each mod which helps figuring out when things are bugged.

Generally, if a mod is focused on end-game tech and has a Community Tech Tree config, it should work pretty well with UBM. If it's for the beginning of the tech tree, you'll need to make configs, and then playtest.

What mods are you referring to, specifically?

I'm at work right now and won't be able to get the names till this afternoon, but there's a handful of them to be sure. Will get back to you on them as soon as I'm able. Also, thank you for the explaination!

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thank you for this, ive been loving Unmanned before Manned mod, and extending to it will be great, i will install this tonight and give you more information about my play tomorrow. 

Im also playing with Yemo's Metamodpack too, there sure is alot of stuff in there, any other mods you would suggest?

Thank you very much

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Sweet. I didn't even know this was a thing. I was just thinking yesterday how much I wished UBM supported MH. You rock!

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Just realized that I borked the upgrade configs by adding modulemanager conditionals to them. Bugfix out in a moment.

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1 hour ago, severedsolo said:

Sweet. I didn't even know this was a thing. I was just thinking yesterday how much I wished UBM supported MH. You rock!

Thanks so much! It's great to hear that from one of my own favorite modders.

2.1 is now live on Spacedock.

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I just did the jump in the cold water and tried it with

  • UnmannedBeforeManned

  • UnmannedBeforeMannedChallenge

  • SETIcustomBarnKitConfig

  • SETIcontracts

  • SETIcareerChallenge

  • Galen (+ Optional - Hide Duplicate Parts)

  • Ships

  • SETIrebalance

  • SETIprobeParts

  • PartOverhaulsSETI

 

The last 3 ones I had to delete because the SETIrebalance triggers MM errors and the other 2 depend on SETIrebalance.

So now I created a new career and will see ...

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3 hours ago, Gordon Dry said:

I just did the jump in the cold water and tried it with

  • UnmannedBeforeManned

  • UnmannedBeforeMannedChallenge

  • SETIcustomBarnKitConfig

  • SETIcontracts

  • SETIcareerChallenge

  • Galen (+ Optional - Hide Duplicate Parts)

  • Ships

  • SETIrebalance

  • SETIprobeParts

  • PartOverhaulsSETI

 

The last 3 ones I had to delete because the SETIrebalance triggers MM errors and the other 2 depend on SETIrebalance.

So now I created a new career and will see ...

Cool. I haven't taken on SETIrebalance yet. If you want something broadly similar, to the science rebalance, I use Science Revisited. I'm not sure how to deal with SETI rebalance, really. But I'll give it a shot before long.

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Okay, finally got a moment to get a list of the extra mods I use that add additional parts:

  • Bluedog Design Bureau
  • All the Contares parts mods
  • DMagic Orbital Science
  • Ground Construction
  • Internal RCS
  • K2 command Pod Continued
  • Kerbal Reusability Expansion
  • Infernal Robotics
  • Mk2/3 Expansion Mods
  • Modular Rocket Systems
  • Kerbal Planetary Base systems
  • Procedural Fiairings
  • Deep Freeze
  • Space-Y Expanded/Lifters
  • Station Science
  • Surface Experiment Package
  • Tarsier Space Technology
  • Tokamak Industries
  • Tundra Exploration
  • USI mods
  • Universal Storage
  • KSPI-E
  • WildBlueIndustries mods

 

these are the ones I could find in short notice. I'm a bit confused as to how your mod plays in with UBM and CTT, and which of the mods handles which other mods' configs, etc.

 

 

 

Edited by DracoSilverpath

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is there anyway you can add this to ckan also, alot easier for me to get mods from there and stay up to date there

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@Dprince12 Unfortunately not. UBM Extended is dependent on Unmanned Before Manned, which may never be updated again. So you'd never be able to download it throigh CKAN anyway because the dependency would be out of date.

11 hours ago, DracoSilverpath said:

Okay, finally got a moment to get a list of the extra mods I use that add additional parts:

  • Bluedog Design Bureau
  • All the Contares parts mods
  • DMagic Orbital Science
  • Ground Construction
  • Internal RCS
  • K2 command Pod Continued
  • Kerbal Reusability Expansion
  • Infernal Robotics
  • Mk2/3 Expansion Mods
  • Modular Rocket Systems
  • Kerbal Planetary Base systems
  • Procedural Fiairings
  • Deep Freeze
  • Space-Y Expanded/Lifters
  • Station Science
  • Surface Experiment Package
  • Tarsier Space Technology
  • Tokamak Industries
  • Tundra Exploration
  • USI mods
  • Universal Storage
  • KSPI-E
  • WildBlueIndustries mods

Most of those should work without new configs. DMagic and Universal Storage are included in the original Unmanned Before Manned. SpaceY, KSPI-E, KPBS, DeepFreeze, and USI are late-game tech and have good CTT integration, so they're fine. Same for Nertea's Near Future mods, as soon as they're updated. I use Ground Construction, Station Science, TST, SEP, and Infernal Robotics and I think they're good where they are. Procedural fairings should be fine.

WBI are supported in UBM Extended but I haven't checked MOLE against the Making History parts, except for the Brumby. DSEV and Heisenberg are fine where they are. Angel-125 is very particular about the tech progression of his mod and did an excellent job fitting it into the tree. He's about the only mod author that actually uses the upgrade system and I think he's fantastic for it.

BDB, Contares, Internal RCS, Mk2/3 Expansion, MRS, and Tundra Exploration are the ones I don't know, and can see being potential problems. Mk2/3 do have CTT integration, but they probably don't fit my tech development ideas. Tokamak and K2 shouldn't be too hard to arrange.

 

11 hours ago, DracoSilverpath said:

I'm a bit confused as to how your mod plays in with UBM and CTT, and which of the mods handles which other mods' configs, etc.

So the way it works is all through modulemanager conditions. First CTT goes through and adds new nodes to the tech tree, then Unmanned Before Manned does it's thing, and finally I come through with my :AFTER[UnmannedBeforeManned] patches and modify a few things and integrate the other part mods into the tree.

I use a lot of conditional statements in my patches to move things around depending on what mods are installed. For example, in my UBM-Squad-theonegalen patch, if Airplane Plus with its propeller engines are installed, the stock jet engines are moved later in the tech tree, which affects a lot of mods, so you will see the :NEEDS[Airplane Plus] condition on a lot of patches for mods that add jet engines.

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36 minutes ago, theonegalen said:

@Dprince12 Unfortunately not. UBM Extended is dependent on Unmanned Before Manned, which may never be updated again. So you'd never be able to download it throigh CKAN anyway because the dependency would be out of date.

Most of those should work without new configs. DMagic and Universal Storage are included in the original Unmanned Before Manned. SpaceY, KSPI-E, KPBS, DeepFreeze, and USI are late-game tech and have good CTT integration, so they're fine. Same for Nertea's Near Future mods, as soon as they're updated. I use Ground Construction, Station Science, TST, SEP, and Infernal Robotics and I think they're good where they are. Procedural fairings should be fine.

WBI are supported in UBM Extended but I haven't checked MOLE against the Making History parts, except for the Brumby. DSEV and Heisenberg are fine where they are. Angel-125 is very particular about the tech progression of his mod and did an excellent job fitting it into the tree. He's about the only mod author that actually uses the upgrade system and I think he's fantastic for it.

BDB, Contares, Internal RCS, Mk2/3 Expansion, MRS, and Tundra Exploration are the ones I don't know, and can see being potential problems. Mk2/3 do have CTT integration, but they probably don't fit my tech development ideas. Tokamak and K2 shouldn't be too hard to arrange.

 

So the way it works is all through modulemanager conditions. First CTT goes through and adds new nodes to the tech tree, then Unmanned Before Manned does it's thing, and finally I come through with my :AFTER[UnmannedBeforeManned] patches and modify a few things and integrate the other part mods into the tree.

I use a lot of conditional statements in my patches to move things around depending on what mods are installed. For example, in my UBM-Squad-theonegalen patch, if Airplane Plus with its propeller engines are installed, the stock jet engines are moved later in the tech tree, which affects a lot of mods, so you will see the :NEEDS[Airplane Plus] condition on a lot of patches for mods that add jet engines.

Interesting! Thanks a lot for the information there. So for the mods that don't have any super clear integration then, I'd need to write. Ustom patches I take it? I'm sure I could likely use some of the ones I. Your mods as a guideline for doing so I assume.

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3 minutes ago, DracoSilverpath said:

Interesting! Thanks a lot for the information there. So for the mods that don't have any super clear integration then, I'd need to write. Ustom patches I take it? I'm sure I could likely use some of the ones I. Your mods as a guideline for doing so I assume.

Sure! I don't use BDB, Contares, or Tundra Exploration, but I will be integrating Internal RCS and Tokamak in the next version of UBM Expanded.

I would recommend you start with the K2 pod and then move to Tundra Exploration and Reusability Expansion, as those seem less part-intense than BDB or Contares. Feel free to upload your configs and send them to me once you've got a good start, or ask if you have questions about balance. Once they get all ironed out, we can integrate them into the main UBM Extended download for everyone to use - with credit, of course.

If you haven't used ModuleManager before, this wiki page is a good starting place.

https://github.com/sarbian/ModuleManager/wiki/Module-Manager-Handbook

Good luck!

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Thank you for the clear answer, i do hope UMB does get updated and you keep doing your thing, This is one of my favorite games, with in the past 5 days i have jumped from about 10 mods to 114 (currently) always looking for more realism, wishing RSS would get updated, but not holding my breath there, Thank you very much for what you do. any updates i will be looking forward to.

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