FreeThinker

[1.7.3/1.6.1/1.5.1/1.4.5/1.3.1] KSP Interstellar Extended 1.23.1 Support Thread

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10 minutes ago, pp3d said:

I am sure this is asked before--- but the usage of 'liquid' water instead of water --- adds some unnecessary complexity... 

“Liquid water” is used instead of “water” so that precious potable water for life support isn’t mistakenly used as propellant. Especially during thrust warping.

Also, since most IFS tanks convert between the two it can be a handy extra byproduct when playing alongside life support and colonization mods imo. 

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, pp3d said:

I am sure this is asked before--- but the usage of 'liquid' water instead of water --- adds some unnecessary complexity... 

Exactly where did it add unnecessary complexity? Perhaps I can do something about it

Edited by FreeThinker

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Posted (edited)
On 3/23/2019 at 5:42 AM, Omeran said:

Has there been a solution to the "DC Electrical System" problem where it consumes all the DC power for no apparent reason?

*snip*

In the interests of seeing this issue resolved, I created a test bed. (Can't seem to insert the URL for my image on Imgur.)

Essentially an RC-101 probe core, an IFS Electric Capacitor (with MegaJoules < > Electric charge set to 100), a MX-35 F.L.A.T Fission Reactor, Y-3000 Jumbo Convertor (with everything off), two ISRU Refrigerators with no conversions on and power control set to 0.5% (lowest possible setting) and two medium thermal control systems (off until the reactor is turned on.). (Also included, but very likely not relevant, some 4-way spotlights, two 3x2 solar panels, an inline stabiliser and a Clamp-o-tron.)

Without the capacitor the ship has no electric charge (dead ship) when the launch window comes up and the Megajoule Management Display shows the DC Electrical System using more and more power until it reaches several MW.

With the capacitor the Megajoules can be seen to drop steadily until the reactor is fired up or there are no MJ left, at which point it reverts to the 'dead ship' state. None of the components should be using MJ since they all use EC.

After firing up the reactor the Megajoule Management Display shows 1000 kW of power being consumed by the DC Electrical System. This appears to be the same as other configurations I've tried where the EC ramps up very slowly and there seems to be a very large parasitic MJ (?) load when there shouldn't be one.

Without the Y-3000 and the refrigerators things seem to behave normally. The very small amount of power used by the core comes from the EC and stops when the core is put in hibernation.

I'll add a link to the picture if somebody can explain to me why the "Insert image from URL" doesn't work (the link goes pink when I try to insert it and the post on imgur is public), or produce further details if requested.

Edited by HuubinNZ
Text put in wrong place.

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13 minutes ago, HuubinNZ said:

I'll add a link to the picture if somebody can explain to me why the "Insert image from URL" doesn't work

Welcome to the forum @HuubinNZ.

I paste the imgur 'direct link' straight into my posts. It should auto embed. 

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, James Kerman said:

Welcome to the forum @HuubinNZ.

I paste the imgur 'direct link' straight into my posts. It should auto embed. 

OK, here goes.

Direct link 

https://imgur.com/a/VYSKQEQ

or embed code

<blockquote class="imgur-embed-pub" lang="en" data-id="a/VYSKQEQ" data-context="false"><a href="//imgur.com/a/VYSKQEQ"></a></blockquote><script async src="//s.imgur.com/min/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Edited by HuubinNZ

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22 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

Exactly where did it add unnecessary complexity? Perhaps I can do something about it

the additional complexity is that you have to provision a tank for it in addition to regular water. 

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8 hours ago, pp3d said:

the additional complexity is that you have to provision a tank for it in addition to regular water. 

This exact same question was asked not a month ago. The reason that 'water' and 'liquid water' were made separate resources was so that, should you chose to play with a life support mod, you don't use your life support water as propellant.

 

Most tanks should be able to switch between water and liquid water if they use IFS and can hold water.

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An alternative solution would be that we make it possible to use Water as a propellant, but harder to do it accidently by making it only avaialble in the Switch window.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/7/2019 at 10:37 AM, James Kerman said:


I used the link that ends in the file descriptor: https://i.imgur.com/iJr2vya.png

Thanks, James. I see how it's done now.

 

On the testing front: I have found that the refrigerators are the problem. When I include only one, set it for Xenon, place the power control at 0.5, set the LiqXenon<>Xenon Gas slider to 0, no liquid Xenon or Xenon gas in the tanks, it behaves itself. As soon as I move the slider to -1 power usage jumps to 250kW. By the time I get the slider to -5 we've maxed at 1000kW of power use. The refrigerator says it's offline but it's still drawing power from the  capacitor.

Not sure what I changed but now I can set the slider ±5%, see the power consumption is 0 on the Megajoules Management Display but the MJ in the capacitor drops rapidly.I will try this on other items, like the cryogenic tanks, which I also suspect of skulduggery. The Y-3000 seems to behave itself, so that's in the clear. 

Update

On further testing of this configuration on Minmus, I find that there is no problem. Everything behaves as it should. I conclude that the refrigerators went to full load because I originally tested on Kerbin with an atmosphere that was acting as a source of Argon/Xenon. It doesn't explain why a refrigerator set to 0.5% power will draw 100% power as soon an input resource is present but at least it is slightly more understandable. It also doesn't explain how the refrigerator can show offline status, there is not power consumption from the DC Electrical System but the power is disappearing from the capacitor bank.

I have also not encountered anything anomalous with the cryogenic tanks.

Edited by HuubinNZ
Update

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Posted (edited)

the nuclear bulb engine creates by magic reserve thrust and opposites the gimbal z16DSfw.jpg

i realize that i had still controlling from the docking port that i used to dock the engine from other side sorry for the inovience :( 

Edited by tonimark

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Question:

What's the reason all types of fuel tanks support different types of fuel?

I understand some differences but others seem very odd.

For example:

1st tank, supports some IFS cryogenic fuels, others not.
2nd tank supports some unique combinations, but many fuels are 'missing'. eg. combining Kerosene + lqd Oxygen is possible, using only Kerosene is not.
The 3th and 4th tank are mostly the same except some fuels.
3th tank: Diborane, 4th tank: lqd Diborane (naming issue only I think)
3th tank does not support lqd Nitrogen-14 while 4th tank does not support regular ldq Nitrogen
5th tank supports lqd water and drinking water, other tanks support lqd water but not drinking water
5th tank: lqd Helium-3 lqd Helium-4, no normal Helium
etc..

Ql15j0A.jpg

 

Also:

1) Don't know if it has been reported/is known but the pop-up menu's are click through, same for the engines propellant menu
2) Some engines (electrical/RCS) do not have the propellant menu

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Dollehz said:

Question:

What's the reason all types of fuel tanks support different types of fuel?

I understand some differences but others seem very odd.

For example:

1st tank, supports some IFS cryogenic fuels, others not.
2nd tank supports some unique combinations, but many fuels are 'missing'. eg. combining Kerosene + lqd Oxygen is possible, using only Kerosene is not.
The 3th and 4th tank are mostly the same except some fuels.
3th tank: Diborane, 4th tank: lqd Diborane (naming issue only I think)
3th tank does not support lqd Nitrogen-14 while 4th tank does not support regular ldq Nitrogen
5th tank supports lqd water and drinking water, other tanks support lqd water but not drinking water
5th tank: lqd Helium-3 lqd Helium-4, no normal Helium
etc..

Ql15j0A.jpg

 

Also:

1) Don't know if it has been reported/is known but the pop-up menu's are click through, same for the engines propellant menu
2) Some engines (electrical/RCS) do not have the propellant menu

Good findings, some of the changes are intended, others aren''t

First a global overview:

Tanks 1 is basicly the global MM script whivh add popular fuel tanks to Stock stank or Mod with Liquid +Oxidizer

Tank 2 is a HigH performance tanks mend for Launch or SSTO with High strenth and hig temperature bonus

Tank 3 Is a Compact High Cry storage tank with reduced Power Cost

Tank 4 Tries to Minimize the mass for an stack inline Storage container at the expanse of versitility (no radial attachment)

Tank 5 Is a Radial Tank that minimize mass cost and which can be dropped when empty

 

Now for the Contens:

Tank 1 intentionaly only has a limited amount, which inludes stock resources, it cannot be switched in flight

Tank 2 contains some popular Duel Fuel configuration for launches of SSTO, it cannot be switched in flight

tank 3,4 should be the same, which they are excet for some minor differences, it can be switched in flight

tank 5 should be the same contens as 3,4 but no ability to switch content in flight, but it can drop using explosive bolds. Its not very suitable for atmospheric flight as the tanks will probably be ripped of.

7 hours ago, tonimark said:

the nuclear bulb engine creates by magic reserve thrust

Magic reserve thrust ???

Edited by FreeThinker

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4 minutes ago, FreeThinker said:

Good findings, some of the changes are intended, others aren''t

First a global overview:

Tanks 1 is basicly the global MM script whivh add popular fuel tanks to Stock stank or Mod with Liquid +Oxidizer

Tank 2 is a HigH performance tanks mend for Launch or SSTO with High strenth and hig temperature bonus

Tank 3 Is a Compact High Cry storage tank with reduced Power Cost

Tank 4 Tries to Minimize the mass for an stack inline Storage container at the expanse of versitility (no radial attachment)

Tank 5 Is a Radial Tank that minimize mass cost and which can be dropped when empty

 

Now for the Contens:

Tank 1 intentionaly only has a limited amount, which inludes stock resources, it cannot be switched in flight

Tank 2 contains some popular Duel Fuel configuration for launches of SSTO, it cannot be switched in flight

tank 3,4 should be the same, which they are excet for some minor differences, it can be switched in flight

tank 5 should be the same contens as 3,4 but no ability to switch content in flight, but it can drop using explosive bolds. Its not very suitable for atmospheric flight as the tanks will probably be ripped of.

Main issue with Tank 2 is that its the only atmosphere 'friendly' fuel tank.
So when making a craft that is planned to be used in atmo, fuel options become pretty limited.

Imagine an SSTO bound for Duna planning to scoop the high CO2 in the atmosphere and use it as propellant. You can't use the Tank 2.

Correct me if i'm wrong but shouldn't tank 2 be the same as tank 3 & 4,  except tank 2 supports dual configurations and has extra protection?
I imagine tank 2 to be the same as tank 3/4 but with a protecting cover.

 

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1 minute ago, Dollehz said:

Imagine an SSTO bound for Duna planning to scoop the high CO2 in the atmosphere and use it as propellant. You can't use the Tank 2.

I guess I need to added some additional configurations, besides CO2 any must have resources

2 minutes ago, Dollehz said:

Correct me if i'm wrong but shouldn't tank 2 be the same as tank 3 & 4,  except tank 2 supports dual configurations and has extra protection?

I imagine tank 2 to be the same as tank 3/4 but with a protecting cover.

To a large dregee, at least for the common resources, they should be the same, but more specialized resources like fusion fuel should limited to the mono cryo yanks

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2 minutes ago, FreeThinker said:

I guess I need to added some additional configurations, besides CO2 any must have resources

Well, the possibilities are endless with this mod. With my limited knowledge i'd say add them all (except the radioactive stuff) :D

You said the fuel tanks can not be switched, so when making an SSTO that has to land on several planets and mine for fuel, the selection of fuel will depend on the available resources on the planets.
Having many options will make selection of fuel type easier.

Any reason why Tank 2 supports less types of fuel as the others?
 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Dollehz said:

Any reason why Tank 2 supports less types of fuel as the others?

Well as said the idea is that these tanks can take a hit and a resistand againt high temperatures, but they are custom designed for one type of fuel/propellant

I guess now that I have a windows that allow easier configuration, I can more tank configurations.

Edited by FreeThinker

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2 minutes ago, FreeThinker said:

Well as said the idea is that these tanks can take a hit and a resistand againt high temperatures.

I guess now that I have a windows that allow easy switching, I can more tank configurations.

Well aside from the extra protection the inside is a cooled bag of fuel just like the other tanks so why can I not fill it with whatever i want?

Maybe you can slightly reduce the volume of the tank compared to the others as trade-off.
The extra protection takes up space.

Imagine tank 2 vs tank 3, same size
Tank 3 is a pure fuel tank, everything you see is filled with fuel
Tank 2 is a protected fuel tank, so some of the size of the tank is protection -> less fuel than Tank 3

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Dollehz said:

Well aside from the extra protection the inside is a cooled bag of fuel just like the other tanks so why can I not fill it with whatever i want?

Maybe you can slightly reduce the volume of the tank compared to the others as trade-off.
The extra protection takes up space.

Imagine tank 2 vs tank 3, same size
Tank 3 is a pure fuel tank, everything you see is filled with fuel
Tank 2 is a protected fuel tank, so some of the size of the tank is protection -> less fuel than Tank 3

Well Except for the super low temperature stuff I guess you shoul be able to fill it up with what ever liquid you want.

I think the Ballon tanks should also be suitable for storing Gas at low presures, this might be usefull when you want to save on power cost

Edited by FreeThinker

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Spoiler
On 6/27/2019 at 6:48 PM, Dollehz said:

@FreeThinker i'm afraid the resizing bug has not been fixed completely

1) New parts, all OK

PQFJlpO.jpg

 

2) reducing size, difference in thrust

4BJj6AV.jpg

 

3) increasing size to original size, difference in thrust

EKPC5Oj.jpg

 

When removing and re-attaching the nozzle, thrust is shown correctly.

 

Found this bug to also affect the other nuclear engines (LANTR, liquid core reactor engine, etc.)

Rescaling messes up the numbers, re-attaching the part fixes the numbers for the current size.
When rescaling numbers mess up again

This happens when changing scale either up or down

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4 hours ago, Dollehz said:
  Reveal hidden contents

 

Found this bug to also affect the other nuclear engines (LANTR, liquid core reactor engine, etc.)

Rescaling messes up the numbers, re-attaching the part fixes the numbers for the current size.
When rescaling numbers mess up again

This happens when changing scale either up or down

This is probably an VAB problem only because after going in flight, it should reeinitialize itself to the proper values

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Found a weird problem, I know it has been discussed before, but I couldn't find a conclusive answer.
The DC Electrical system seems to create an infinite consumption of power

My space station has been in space for years without having any problems used power is easily refilled within seconds.

Now I used up all its MJ and somehow its not able to recover.

d74qxyF.jpg

As you can see the Current Supply of 487 KW should be enough to cover the demand of 80.1 KW and recharge my MJ

To my understanding the DC electrical system is somehow related to the required power to fill the MegaJoules back to 100% and can generally be ignored, as confusing as it is.

However in this case nothing is recharging (not EC not MJ not KW) all 3 remain at 0, yet something is consuming all the power.

Even with everything turned off (0 consumption) DC Electrical System uses all my energy to do nothing.

Am I missing something?

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Dollehz said:

Found a weird problem, I know it has been discussed before, but I couldn't find a conclusive answer.
The DC Electrical system seems to create an infinite consumption of power

My space station has been in space for years without having any problems used power is easily refilled within seconds.

Now I used up all its MJ and somehow its not able to recover.

d74qxyF.jpg

As you can see the Current Supply of 487 KW should be enough to cover the demand of 80.1 KW and recharge my MJ

To my understanding the DC electrical system is somehow related to the required power to fill the MegaJoules back to 100% and can generally be ignored, as confusing as it is.

However in this case nothing is recharging (not EC not MJ not KW) all 3 remain at 0, yet something is consuming all the power.

Even with everything turned off (0 consumption) DC Electrical System uses all my energy to do nothing.

Am I missing something?

I'm not sure but I might alright have solved the problem, Are you running Kerbalism?  the problem might be caused by the Solar Panels that ar consuming power instead of producing power.

You might want to disable the solar panels, or try download and overwrite https://github.com/sswelm/KSP-Interstellar-Extended/raw/master/GameData/WarpPlugin/Plugins/Interstellar.dll

Edited by FreeThinker

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20 minutes ago, FreeThinker said:

I'm not sure but I think I have solved the problem, Are you running Kerbalism?  the problem might be caused by the Solar Panels that ar consuming power instead of producing power.

You might want to disable the solar panels, or try download and overwrite https://github.com/sswelm/KSP-Interstellar-Extended/raw/master/GameData/WarpPlugin/Plugins/Interstellar.dll

No, not running Kerbalism, I'll try the link. 

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Found the problem, the ISRU refrigerator consumes power even though it's not doing anything.

Forgot to turn of my lqd methane -> methane conversion (user error). Setting the slider to 0 fixed the problem.
Weird part is there was no lqd methane left but the ISRU kept draining power, don't know if it's suppose to do so.

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