FreeThinker

[1.7.3/1.6.1/1.5.1/1.4.5/1.3.1] KSP Interstellar Extended 1.23.8 Support Thread

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Another question about ISRU: While we have Mo_na_zite (for some reason it is changed to Mopedantte every time I edit this post) to get Thorium and Uraninite -> EnrichedUranium chain to get Uranium, ISRU Converter require LqdFluorine to produce UF4 or ThF4, which is logical, but (seems) you have no source of Fluorine other than bringing tank with you. Any plans to add it?

Edited by ThirdOfSeven

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15 hours ago, ThirdOfSeven said:

Another question about ISRU: While we have Mo_na_zite (for some reason it is changed to Mopedantte every time I edit this post) to get Thorium and Uraninite -> EnrichedUranium chain to get Uranium, ISRU Converter require LqdFluorine to produce UF4 or ThF4, which is logical, but (seems) you have no source of Fluorine other than bringing tank with you. Any plans to add it?

Yes, I will add Fluorine (Gas) as a waste product of the Anticides processing, which can be reused for the production of Nuclear Fuel and a Raw Fluorine resource (Fluorite) which can be mined from the surface

Edited by FreeThinker

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Hello everyone,

I have been mocking around with the ISRU system (in sandbox) before i get to it in carrier to figure it out and the more i tried the less I understood. Searching the internet led to no up to date ducumentation on the new-ish multipart ISRU system, so i ended up here with my confusion. I will try to be the helpful uninformed and give a picture of what i didn't figure out as precise as possible. (also note that i am somewhat familiar with the reactors, engines, heat mechanic and beamed power in KSPI-E) So: The main thing i was trying to test is how i can launch a Duna-direct style misson with bringing just enough dv to get there and then refine Methane+lqdOx there for the trip back.

-So after trying the different combinations of the atmospheric scoop ISRU Refridgerator, CO2 crystat tank megajoule generation, and of course the ISRU Converter i figured out the following:

1. The scoops, converter and cryostat all use stock Electric Charge (correct me if i am wrong), but they use so much of it that it drains it real fast if i dont use a reactor+generator combo.

2. The scoop cant feed directly into the Converter so you need a cryogenic storage tank for CO2.

3. The ISRU Refridgerator is not needed to convert the CO2 coming from the scoop into lqd, the cryostat seems to handle it just fine. In fact i couldn't make anything work with the Refridgerator, the Atmospheric Extraction button in its GUI remained grayed out regardless of what i did.

4. Though i have not tested them really as i understand it the ISRU Processor is to be used with the stock mining drill/the regolith drill for processing solid materials (and Nuclear fuel reprocessing), and the Elecrtolyzer is also for use with the drill for Water/Alumina Electrolysis (Minmus/Mun respectively)

So in question form i guess:

-Can whole ISRU system can work without Reactors+Generators? (but needs a lot of EC somehow)

-What is the purpose of the Refridgerator?

-What are the MJ/Electric Charge systems used for respectivele in KSPI-E? Is MJ only for transmitters and electric engines and nothing else?

Thanks for the help in advance, and sorry for the wall of text, I tried to keep it as structered as possible but in hindsight i kinda failed at that.

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Hiya folks! I'm working on a putting together a video tutorial on as much of the ISRU bits as I can. Soon as it's done I'll upload it to youtube. Fair warning, my last video took over 24 hours just to upload (really slow connection). cheers.

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Version 1.12.13 for Kerbal Space Program 1.2.2

Released on 2017-03-22

  • Added Fluorite Mining, Scanning and Processing into Fluorine
  • Added Ability of Fuel Processing to use Enriched Uranium to replace Depleted Fuel or produce Fluorine when missing.
  • Added Attach Node to Laser Transmitter allowing it easy radially attachment
  • Fixed Vista compatibility with Near Future and Tweakscale
  • Balance: Replaced ISRU chemical LqdOxygen by Oxygen
  • Balance: Magnetic Confinement Reactor Lithium Blanket replaced by Lithium6
  • Balance: Reduced power output Fission Fragment Reactor power output by 25%
  • Balance: Reduced power output Tri Alpha power output by 25%
  • Balance: Increased high core temperature to Fission Fragment Reactor, allowing usage with Plasma Engine produce higher Isp

 

 

Edited by FreeThinker

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I'm having an issue with the radiators in KSPI, it seems that I am only getting about 10% of the performance I should be. Example; I'm trying to build a power station with a molten salt reactor and a thermoelectric generator, both 3.75m size. Total heat production in thermal helper is 5.79 GW. I'm trying to cool this with large folding radiators, which I believe are upgraded to Mk IV (any way to check this?). The tool tip says one of these should provide 2868 MW of cooling at Mk IV, but thermal helper says I'm only going to get 310 MW of cooling. Any reason for the discrepancy? I know near Future mods can interact with KSPI stuff, but I don't have any installed. 

If the stats I'm reading are correct, I will need 24 of these radiators to cool a 3.75m molten salt station. That seems absurd, and I'm not sure how I will realistically handle stations that generate more heat as I progress.....Any suggestions?

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Something strange happened when I was recording the tutorial. I built a vessel on the runway to demonstrate Uraninite processing up through Uranium Nitride (there's a deposit of Uranium right under my runway on my save XD ).

Anyway, all the conversions work until the UF4 -> UN. I had about ten kilograms of UF4 and it ended up converting, instantly, to a full tank of UN as soon as I clicked the refinery window button.  If it would help I'll upload the video (no voiceover, yet) for a visual reference of what happened. Oh, and it was the big part, not the hex part, it was the hex part that I used for the UF4 -> UN. cheers

 

Video will be live at https://youtu.be/YtAbVVhUcUI 

Edited by jhook777
correction and link

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So the normal sized Thermal Electric Generator weighs 6 tons. When using tweakscale on it to make it smaller or bigger the weight does not change. I checked the craft weight using MechJeb and the standard in-game function to check the craft's weight. This has to be a bug, right? I'm using the latest version of the mod.

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29 minutes ago, HerpDerpHurpDurp said:

So the normal sized Thermal Electric Generator weighs 6 tons. When using tweakscale on it to make it smaller or bigger the weight does not change. I checked the craft weight using MechJeb and the standard in-game function to check the craft's weight. This has to be a bug, right? I'm using the latest version of the mod.

It's not a bug, but a feature.

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On 3/18/2017 at 3:19 AM, FreeThinker said:

Yes, I will add Fluorine (Gas) as a waste product of the Anticides processing, which can be reused for the production of Nuclear Fuel and a Raw Fluorine resource (Fluorite) which can be mined from the surface

I've been playing with this and haven't been able to get the ISRU Refrigerator to convert the Fluorine into Lqd Fluorine. There are no buttons other than Sample Atmosphere, Sample Ocean, and Toggle Refinery Window. The refinery window only has Atmospheric Extraction and Solar Wind Process.

I was able to convert it using the Universal Liquidifcator part, though the UI is a bit wierd on that. (You have to move a slider instead of clicking a button.)  I noticed the same slider is on the IFS Cryogenic Tank (CT2501), and also appears to work if the slider is between 5 and 95, but trails off after awhile.

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Am I missing something?  There doesn't seem to be any way to make a beamed-power craft that uses the atmosphere as it's reaction mass.

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3 hours ago, Loren Pechtel said:

Am I missing something?  There doesn't seem to be any way to make a beamed-power craft that uses the atmosphere as it's reaction mass.

I think if you put a thermal reciever (inline or the mk2 since you will fly in atmosphere so any radial dish would get torn off), some intakes and connect a thermal turbojet directly to the reciever you should be good to go. If you want to fly at high altitude and speed you will probably need a precooler as well.

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6 hours ago, kukuc96 said:

I think if you put a thermal reciever (inline or the mk2 since you will fly in atmosphere so any radial dish would get torn off), some intakes and connect a thermal turbojet directly to the reciever you should be good to go. If you want to fly at high altitude and speed you will probably need a precooler as well.

Yeah, that looks like what I'm envisioning.  I don't know how I missed it.

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Version 1.12.14 for Kerbal Space Program 1.2.2 can be downloaded from here

Released on 2017-03-25

  • Added DanamicBuffer for Beamed Power receiver, allowing Ablative Nozzle to operate correctly in NF mode
  • Added Increased Tweakscaling for most parts up to 40m diameter
  • Added improved status messages for Beamed power Transmitter
  • Fixed Heat Transfer Radiators in NF mode
  • Fixed extreme G-Forces when accelerating with Alcubiere FTL Drive

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9 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

Version 1.12.14 for Kerbal Space Program 1.2.2 can be downloaded from here

Released on 2017-03-25

  • Fixed Heat Transfer Radiators in NF mode
  •  

Hi @FreeThinker

Thanks for the release, just so you're aware a mining base w/Nuclear reactor I had working fine in 1.12.11 is still broken in 1.12.14, I've also tried a new craft with radiators directly attached to the reactor with no difference, the reactor overheats and the radiators do not cool at all.

if you're interested in the 2 craft you can download the craft files in a zip format from here: Overheating craft.zip

Edited by narvster

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4 minutes ago, narvster said:

Hi @FreeThinker

Thanks for the release, just so you're aware a mining base w/Nuclear reactor I had working fine in 1.12.11 is still broken in 1.12.14, I've also tried a new craft with radiators directly attached to the reactor with no difference, the reactor overheats and the radiators do not cool at all.

if you're interested in the 2 craft you can download the craft files in a zip format from here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/d0t6d0ww0w4rc0a/Overheating craft.zip?dl=1

How to test it?

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Structural parts still aren't resizable including heatshield radiator.

Edited by raxo2222

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I managed to achieve around 50% efficiency of turning energy into beam:

21 GW generated, 11 GW sent to Earth.

 

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4 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

How to test it?

It might be hard if you've not got the mods, but for example put the "al in one drilling rig" on Minmus or the Mun using Hyperedit, fire up the reactor 100% without extending the radiators and it overheats quickly as expected.  Then extend the radiators and fire it up 100% again and it exhibits the same behaviour overheating quickly.  I've found with this craft I can run the radiator at about 1-4% and keep it from overheating.

Again with the second craft the "mining base & orbital depot" it's got a smaller reactor and small radiators and again follow the same steps and it overheats.

Both of these craft were provided sufficient cooling as per the VAB KSPI heating panel as shown in the linked pics below (I couldn't get the forum to allow me to embed pictures for some reason...)

All in one mining rig - this has huge amounts of cooling MW vs KW of actual output

mining base & orbital depot - this has close to the required level of cooling

 

 

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1 hour ago, raxo2222 said:

I managed to achieve around 50% efficiency of turning energy into beam:

21 GW generated, 11 GW sent to Earth.

 

Notice D-Li6  can also be used for D-T fusion but the fuel can be stored more efficiently using LithiumDeuteride which effectively is a mix of Lithium6 + Deuterium that does not require cryogenic storage and can be stored at higher mass fraction 

Edited by FreeThinker

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It would be nice to have fusion fuel tank since resource consumption isn't 1:1, if there are 2 different resources used in reaction.

Such tank would have fairing, so you wouldn't have to design tanks for each reaction - part of it would keep solid material and other part - liquid material.

Here are fusion modes from your table that uses more than single resource (removed singhle resource ones)

 
Fuel Mode Reactors Types Tech Requirement

 

Reactor Power

Reaction Energy

 

Reaction Rate

Power Requirement Multiplier

Neutral Plasma / Non Neutral

Fuel Products Charged Particles Brems-strahlung Neutron Energy Ratio
D-T Fusion MCF / MIF Fusion Power 1 1 1 1x LqdDeteurium + LqdTritium Helium4 19.3% 0.7% 80%
                       
D-He3 Fusion MCF Advanced Fusion 0,884 1.04 0.85 2x / 4x LqdDeteurium + LqdHe3 Helium4 + LqdHydrogen 79.13% 15.87% 5%
                       
                       
                       
D-Li6 Fusion MCF / MIF Exotic Fusion 0.889 1.27 0.7 6x / 9x LqdDeteurium + Lithium6 Helium4 18.2% 81.8% 2.5%
He3-Li6 Fusion MCF / CBF Exotic Fusion 0.672 0.96 0.7 6x / 9x LqdHe3 + Lithium6 Helium4 + LqdHydrogen     0.1%
                       
p-B11 Fusion CBF Exotic Fusion 0.3458 0.494 0.7 6x / 9x LqdHydrogen + Boron Helium4 + LqdHydrogen  36,3% 63.6% 0.01%
                       
p-Li6 Fusion CBF Ultra High Energy Physics 0.154 0.22 0.6 10x LqdHydrogenLithium6 Helium4 + Helium3 41.9% 58.1% 0.1%
p-Li7 Fusion MCF / CBF Ultra High Energy Physics 0.6839 0.977 0.6 10x LqdHydrogen + Lithium Helium4 75% 24.9% 0.1%
p-N15 Fusion CBF Ultra High Energy Physics 0.1704 0.284 0.6 10x LqdHydrogen + Nitrogen15 Helium4  + Carbon 60% 40% 0.1%
p-O18 fusion CBF Ultra High Energy Physics 0.1363 0.227 0.6 10x LqdHydrogen + Oxygen18 Nitrogen15 + Helium4  

Since there is something called Lithium Deuterite can we have other fusion mixes for other reactions?

Deuter-Tritium or Deuter-Helium3 fuel could be stored as one gas for example.

Can this Lithium6/7 be mixed with Hydrogen/He3 just like LithiumDeuterite?

What about fusion methane/water (containing N15/O18 respectively)?

Also can Hydrogen+Boron be stored as one compound?

 

Oo LithiumHydrate exists

Edited by raxo2222

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22 minutes ago, raxo2222 said:

It would be nice to have fusion fuel tank since resource consumption isn't 1:1, if there are 2 different resources used in reaction.

This is one of the reasons I introduced LithiumDeuteride, it has a guaranteed balanced ratio because it contains the fuel in the exact correct ratio.

It's also ideal for any high temperature environment life venus or in a low orbit of the sun.

Edited by FreeThinker

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7 minutes ago, FreeThinker said:

This is tone of the reasons I introduced LithiumDeuteride, it has a guaranteed balanced ratio because it contains the fuel in the exact correct ratio.

It's also ideal for any high temperature environment life venus or in a low orbit of the sun.

Saw your post when I was editing my post.

What about other fuels?

 

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