FreeThinker

[1.7.3/1.6.1/1.5.1/1.4.5/1.3.1] KSP Interstellar Extended 1.23.8 Support Thread

Recommended Posts

On 5/16/2019 at 5:31 AM, flyguybc said:

1.  There aren't any by default (unless i missed something) but there are the outer planets mod, and a system called Dawn, and a few others.  You would have to add them in.

3.  Kerbal Joint Reinfocement Continued - A mod you can get from ckan or elsewhere that enhances the integrity of joints so less SPLOSIONS!

1. Running 1.6.1, none of the outer planets mods seem to be updated past 1.5.9, but I'll try them out anyway. Assuming I'll need a new save to test after installing them.
3. Installed, now joints don't break anymore, discovering new and more interesting ways to explodinate my probes. Thank you <3

16 minutes ago, samooo2 said:

You're looking for LiquidHelium, the regular one. Helium3 is super rare fusion fuel, would be kind of a waste to use it for cooling telescopes...

Thank you, accidentally discovered it as well by docking two ships and suddenly noticing that the telescope was operational.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, samooo2 said:

You're looking for LiquidHelium, the regular one. Helium3 is super rare fusion fuel, would be kind of a waste to use it for cooling telescopes...

Actual Hellium-3 refrigerator is the best way to achieve the best result as it allow cooling down to 0.2 Kervin. So I wouldn't call it a waste if it allows you to achieve better results

1 hour ago, flyguybc said:

XCnlw3Q.jpg

 

What am I doing wrong FreeThinker?  It no go!

Notice the Atm Thrust Efficiency of 0.01%, it effectively means you do not generate enough thrust the overcome the atmospheric pressure. Try again at High atmosphere or space.

Edited by FreeThinker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gotcha.  I started messing with a bigger reactor and was able to get some thrust.  I guess I need Antimatter to actually use them as a lift off device.  Ok last question for the day.  So I am building a probe to go map out the Jool system.  

Based upon our earlier conversation on fuels I'm trying to reconcile what you were saying about liquid fuel vs liquid hydrogen.  So help me understand these.

In this one I have the engine set to liquid hydrogen.  So KER is giving me a TWR of .25 in space and a delta V of 1370m/s.  Then the engine window tells me I get a maximum ISP of 3500 with thrust being 61.8 KN

Cl9wh2d.jpg

 

Then we have liquid fuel.  KER tells me I get a .33 twr and a delta V of 5900m/s!  But if I look at the engine specs I only get a 1400s ISP and the thrust is double at 123.6 KN.

mhOghft.jpg

liquid hydrogen is half the thrust of liquid fuel

liguid hydrogen is 2.5x better ISP than liquid fuel

liquid hydrogen has a 4.3x worse Delta V than liquid fuel.  Tanks are the same volume.

 

Can you help me understand this?  This is why its hard for me to want to try out other fuels on these rockets because LF seems to just blow them all out of the water in Delta V.

I heard someone say something about Real Fuels Mod.  Is this because I don't have that installed?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, flyguybc said:

Based upon our earlier conversation on fuels I'm trying to reconcile what you were saying about liquid fuel vs liquid hydrogen.  So help me understand these.

In this one I have the engine set to liquid hydrogen.  So KER is giving me a TWR of .25 in space and a delta V of 1370m/s.  Then the engine window tells me I get a maximum ISP of 3500 with thrust being 61.8 KN

Then we have liquid fuel.  KER tells me I get a .33 twr and a delta V of 5900m/s!  But if I look at the engine specs I only get a 1400s ISP and the thrust is double at 123.6 KN.

liquid hydrogen is half the thrust of liquid fuel

liguid hydrogen is 2.5x better ISP than liquid fuel

liquid hydrogen has a 4.3x worse Delta V than liquid fuel.  Tanks are the same volume.

Can you help me understand this?  This is why its hard for me to want to try out other fuels on these rockets because LF seems to just blow them all out of the water in Delta V.

I heard someone say something about Real Fuels Mod.  Is this because I don't have that installed?

8

No, it has nothing to do with RF. It has to do how the Liquid Fuel and other complex propellants behave in a Gas core where the majority of the energy is provided by the reactor and the propellant is atomised before it heated to it maximum temperature. Liquid Fuel is here considered to be comparable with  Kerosene and there its isp ratio (of 0.4) is much lower than in solid core nuclear engines where it has a higher isp ratio (of 0.8). As a result, ISP of liquid fuel is (1 / 0.4 ) 2.5 x less. However, due to the horrible density of liquid Hydrogen is still has a higher deltaV then Hydrogen which simply requires you to take at least 5 times as much to get a comparable DeltaV as Liquid Fuel. To make a fair comparison between propellants, you should not compare with the same volume of tanks but rather with the same mass ratio between vessels.

Quote

"Mass Ratio" is just a fancy way to measure how much mass is the propellant and how much is the rest of the blasted rocket.

 

Edited by FreeThinker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks man!!  So what you are saying is if the fuel masses of the ships are equal LHydrogen should win the ISP and therefore DeltaV battle?

 

Speaking of fuels I thought I saw in someone elses vid that the Attila can use compressed air as a fuel.  Did that change?

 

I'm also trying to build some craft that can refuel mid trip, but I'm having a hard time understanding the ISRU stuff.  I'm trying to figure out what I need to make HTP.  I built a test bed in a sandbox save, but its just so complex.  Any guidance you can give me.

 

What did you think about the guide btw.  If there's any resources you want me to add to it let me know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, flyguybc said:

What did you think about the guide btw.  If there's any resources you want me to add to it let me know.

Yes I liked it. I have put it at the top of the Guides list

2 hours ago, flyguybc said:

So what you are saying is if the fuel masses of the ships are equal LHydrogen should win the ISP and therefore DeltaV battle?

Hydrogen always provide the best Isp, but DeltaV depends on the overall vessel configuration and for some configurations like SSTO it is more advantageous to use a more dense fuel then Hydrogen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, flyguybc said:

Speaking of fuels I thought I saw in someone elses vid that the Attila can use compressed air as a fuel.  Did that change?

Nope it still works.

QRnZPd4.jpg

Although it can be very convenient to directly use compressed air, it is not the most efficient electric propellant, due to the cost of ionization and efficiency is very important as it causes waste-heat which will affect your overall power production and therefore effective thrust.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can this tutorial be expanded/detailed?
https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Tutorial:_interplanetary_warp

It's really hard to follow, and unclear in points..
At the moment not having any trajectory calculations during Alcubierre Drive warp,  only seeing a straight line projected in the direction the ship jumped, with trajectories appearing again when I turn off the drive.

Makes circularizing around planets really difficult.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, TanoPrime said:

Can this tutorial be expanded/detailed?
https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Tutorial:_interplanetary_warp

It's really hard to follow, and unclear in points..
At the moment not having any trajectory calculations during Alcubierre Drive warp,  only seeing a straight line projected in the direction the ship jumped, with trajectories appearing again when I turn off the drive.

Makes circularizing around planets really difficult.

Well usually by the time you got access to the Alcubierre  drive, you also got access to very powerful and efficient engines which will have no trouble of getting you in orbit.

But if you insists doing it the hard way. Basically what is described here it to make use of the gravity of a star to slow yourself down and then speed up into the desired vector. First figure your existing vector (you can find out by dropping out of warp when leaving Kerbin SOI) , than travel to the opposite side of the star. slow down by freefall until you have zero speed, then move to the side of the star wher you freefall will get you to speed up into the desired vector, after that then move to your target planet.

Alternatively you drop out of warp very near the planet which will also decelerate you, this requires you to slow down to sub light speed

Edited by FreeThinker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@TanoPrime  Go to the very first page of this forum.  Find his link to my reddit guide.  In there is a link to Jhook777's video on the alucubierre drive.  Give it a watch.  VERY good info and he shows you how to orbit etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, FreeThinker said:

Well usually by the time you got access to the Alcubierre  drive, you also got access to very powerful and efficient engines which will have no trouble of getting you in orbit.

But if you insists doing it the hard way. Basically what is described here it to make use of the gravity of a star to slow yourself down and then speed up into the desired vector. First figure your existing vector (you can find out by dropping out of warp when leaving Kerbin SOI) , than travel to the opposite side of the star. slow down by freefall until you have zero speed, then move to the side of the star wher you freefall will get you to speed up into the desired vector, after that then move to your target planet.

Alternatively you drop out of warp very near the planet which will also decelerate you, this requires you to slow down to sub light speed

I have engines to circularize classically, but want to learn how to use the warp drive.

I still don't understand what you mean, none of my jumps to other planets decelerated me significantly.
I end up with hyperbolic orbits, and apparently I do not understand enough about orbits to get how to correct them - using maneuver nodes doesn't help, as I seem to just make things worse and worse until I need to reload and try again.

Also don't understand why all my indicators go off when in warp mode, as well as the nav ball becoming useless - there's way too little information presented in the Warp Drive info window to effectively navigate by (for me). Particularly since there are no orbits displayed even in map mode while jumping - see in screenshot, all I see is a straight line (1), even though the end result when turning off the warp drive is a curved orbit (2).

(1)
7yAYD2w.png

 

(2)

DmWt5qa.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, flyguybc said:

@TanoPrime  Go to the very first page of this forum.  Find his link to my reddit guide.  In there is a link to Jhook777's video on the alucubierre drive.  Give it a watch.  VERY good info and he shows you how to orbit etc.

I tried but wasn't able to follow it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

@FreeThinkerIts not there on my career save.  Does a particular technology unlock it as a fuel supply?

 

I understand its not idea, but its sustainable early on since you can refill it so easily by dipping into atmospheres.  A lot of beacoupzero's ships use it and they seem pretty sustainable.

 

I think I'm starting to get my head around the ISRU stuff I'm going to test it out if I play tonight.  The charts on the first page are starting to make sense, and are helpful now.  It would probably be really good to add a chart that has pictures of each ISRU on top of whatever process they provide.

Another suggestion - Reading through this forum it seems like most people struggle with getting engines etc. to work because they don't understand the requirements.  I'm not familiar enough with the mod to give a detailed suggestion, but it feels like you need a line on each engines little orange/grey window that identifies that.

So for example trying I try to start an engine and nothing happens I can go into that window and see "Engine Power Requirement:  45/63mw not met.  For example I finally found the reactor maintenance line on the reactors, but it took a lot of searching.

Or a green message that pops up.  For example when the ISRU tries to start a process it will say "Missing liquid nitrogen".  Something like that for engines/reactors.

Whatever you choose it needs to be in the same spot, on each engine/reactor/etc window.  So we get used to looking in the same spot.

 

Again not sure if that makes sense or can even be done.  I just see so many questions following that same vein on here, and I feel bad you constantly have to repeat yourself because its not readily clear in the game.

 
2 minutes ago, TanoPrime said:

I tried but wasn't able to follow it.

@TanoPrimeAs in you didn't understand his video?  Or the links to the guide/video weren't working?

 

Edited by flyguybc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, flyguybc said:

@TanoPrimeAs in you didn't understand his video?  Or the links to the guide/video weren't working?

Yep, found the video but getting lost in applying the details to my own flight.

Edited by TanoPrime

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Towards the end is when he starts talking about using planets to do orbits, similar to what Free was saying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, flyguybc said:

@kerbnubI have not seen that yet.  I'm on fully updated everything

Thanks. Narrowing this down with >100 mods is not going to be fun...

What version do you mean by "up to date?"

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am a returning player (5th time now :)) I would like to play KSPI-E again as I did everytime but unfortunately some new restrictions to my other favorite mods disables use of KSPI-e in a career. The guilty part is RP-1 real progression of Realism Overhaul mod. Apparently they overhauled the whole tech tree and now there is no way to get KSPI-E parts in a career. I would like to ask if there was a list of KSPI-I tech configs I can use so that I can add those tech nodes to my unyielding rp-1 tech tree manually. Going through every insterstellar part config is laborious work so I am looking for a faster way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, yafeshan said:

I am a returning player (5th time now :)) I would like to play KSPI-E again as I did everytime but unfortunately some new restrictions to my other favorite mods disables use of KSPI-e in a career. The guilty part is RP-1 real progression of Realism Overhaul mod. Apparently they overhauled the whole tech tree and now there is no way to get KSPI-E parts in a career. I would like to ask if there was a list of KSPI-I tech configs I can use so that I can add those tech nodes to my unyielding rp-1 tech tree manually. Going through every insterstellar part config is laborious work so I am looking for a faster way.

This should have been asked in the development thread but I'm afraid that putting parts into the RP-1 tech tree is not enough because it is probably lacking advanced tech nodes which are really required if you want some balance during your campaign. What I would advise is to make a modification of the existing CTT.cfg  or  ETT.cfg and adapt it to the RP-1 tech tree, which would add additional technodes that contain KSPIE parts

Edited by FreeThinker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I wish to report a bug. Similar to the areospike zpinch, the thermal turbojet seems to be bugged in that, once you leave an atmosphere, you can not switch back to atmospheric intake. This screenshot was taken landed in the grasslands after going into orbit. Atmospheric intake worked fine on takeoff.

 

I suspect all engines that can use atmospheric intakes have similar behavior.

 

Scratch all of the above. It is user error

Edited by wkwied
PEBCAK error

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Its not a bug.  That's the way they work.  They can only switch to a fuel that is present.

 

Think about it.  Lets say you make a ship with Thermal Turbo, you're going to use atmosphere and then HTP.  So you have air intakes to provide the atmosphere and fuel tanks for HTP.  There are however lots of other options LArgon, LKrytpon, etc.

Then you launch the craft.  The engine now only cycles between the fuels available to it.  There is intake air/atmosphere available, and then HTP in the fuel tanks.  So that's what you can switch between.  Can you switch to LArgon, or any of the others? no.  Because they are not present on the ship.

Therefore once you get into space there is no more intake air/atmosphere.  Therefore the only fuel available to the engines is HTP.  As soon as you dip down into an atmosphere again you will be able to switch back.

 

Edit:  Ok missed the landed on the grasslands part.....that's weird.  I don't have any trouble with mine coming back down.  What version are you running?  What do your air intakes say?  They aren't closed are they?

Edited by flyguybc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Actually.... I think this may be user error. I threw together a very simple craft (air intake, cockpit, thermal reactor and the turbojet) and I was able to get thrust after I reentered the atmosphere.

 

When I tested with my other craft, air intakes were all open

 

And... likewise the same with the areospike zpinch.

 

I think something on my craft has crossfeed disabled and it is not allowing intake atmosphere into the engine. Greeeat >.>

 

Yep, that is what it was. I think. I removed and replaced the engines and it worked without a hitch.

 

Shrug

Edited by wkwied

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.