Dragonwarp

has KER been broken?

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I've been seeing conflicting things in regard to kerbal engineer redux and kerbal alarm clock. On spacedock, it says that kerbal alarm clock does not work in 1.4, but i have seen many people use it in 1.4, and the same goes for KER. do they work or not?

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Despite it says they are not compatible it doesn't mean they do not work on 1.4

For example, KER, it is known to work but delta V and TWR calculations are wrong because of the changes in the parts and other functions may be working fine like telemetry for altitude and such. 

Edited by Devnull.13

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KER has not yet been officially updated, but there is a dev build for MechJeb2 that's compaitble with 1.4. Since (if I'm not mistaken) KER uses data from MJ, it might work. 

Found this handy list on Reddit showing which mods have been updated and which are known to be broken:

https://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/82qw3y/14_modlist_workingpartialnot_working_please/

 

Edited by softweir
Removed offensive video

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6 hours ago, Zoidos said:

KER has not yet been officially updated, but there is a dev build for MechJeb2 that's compaitble with 1.4. Since (if I'm not mistaken) KER uses data from MJ, it might work. 

Found this handy list on Reddit showing which mods have been updated and which are known to be broken:

https://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/82qw3y/14_modlist_workingpartialnot_working_please/

 

I dont think KER uses data from MJ,at least i have KER installed without MJ

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4 hours ago, Tarheel1999 said:

I’m pretty sure it’s the other way around Mechjeb used/uses the simulation code in KER.

It was used for a few month in 2015 before I reverted to MJ code.

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5 hours ago, sarbian said:

It was used for a few month in 2015 before I reverted to MJ code.

My bad. I remember a time when you said they were running the same simulation. Didn’t realize it was that long ago. 

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Yeah I use KER a lot so I'm hoping that it will get an update soon.

Otherwise I will switch to MJ if it has similar functionality to KER,  I've nothing against MJ of course, I just don't need the pilot abilities so I stuck with KER for the various information and design engineer.  

What's important to me though is if KER does fall by the wayside I'll need to know how to move the KER modules from my save files so that I don't lose vessels / missions in progress.

Edited by NewtSoup

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I threw KER into 1.4.1 and it seems to be working..

 

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2 minutes ago, Geonovast said:

I threw KER into 1.4.1 and it seems to be working..

 

Yes, me too.  I'm just concerned that at some point it may cease to work.  Then again it may work indefinitely but just give out more and more  inaccurate information as game data changes for parts.

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I have not noticed any problems with KER and the latest KSP versions. I can't see how it can be pre-loaded with data for engines, stock and add-on, so it must be getting its data for the calculation from KSP at runtime. And it isn't using fancy graphics. It just gives the delta-V, doesn't take into account atmospheric drag or gravity, or the ascent profile. or engine throttling. I think it would have to be a pretty major break-everything change that stopped KER from working.

If they switched to Smoots for measuring distance, that might do it.

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2 minutes ago, Wolf Baginski said:

I have not noticed any problems with KER and the latest KSP versions. I can't see how it can be pre-loaded with data for engines, stock and add-on, so it must be getting its data for the calculation from KSP at runtime. And it isn't using fancy graphics. It just gives the delta-V, doesn't take into account atmospheric drag or gravity, or the ascent profile. or engine throttling. I think it would have to be a pretty major break-everything change that stopped KER from working.

If they switched to Smoots for measuring distance, that might do it.

Reassuring - thank you.  I've no idea how it works.

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I did run into an issue with the MEM. Bare with just a spark engine under it, KER only reported it as having 69 Dv (staged inside a fairing.) I knew that had to be wrong so I sent it anyway. I had more than enough fuel to return to orbit and re-dock at about 40km. I'm not sure what could be throwing it off. Also a couple of times I've noticed with the atmosphere setting off, it adds all the Dv up on the stage side and the total Dv column, but they don't match and I can't tell if either is accurate (admittedly I haven't bothered to do the math when it has happened cause I knew I had more than enough.) I'll try to make note of what combo of parts gives strange numbers.

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On 18.3.2018 at 8:30 PM, Wolf Baginski said:

I have not noticed any problems with KER and the latest KSP versions. I can't see how it can be pre-loaded with data for engines, stock and add-on, so it must be getting its data for the calculation from KSP at runtime. And it isn't using fancy graphics. It just gives the delta-V, doesn't take into account atmospheric drag or gravity, or the ascent profile. or engine throttling. I think it would have to be a pretty major break-everything change that stopped KER from working.

If they switched to Smoots for measuring distance, that might do it.

It breaks with the engine plates (from the DLC), because they act as decoupler, but sit between engine and fuel tank. So KER thinks, the engine will be gone. Have not yet seen any problems with the base game.

 

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4 hours ago, Draradech said:

It breaks with the engine plates (from the DLC), because they act as decoupler, but sit between engine and fuel tank. So KER thinks, the engine will be gone. Have not yet seen any problems with the base game.

 

That sounds a little odd, because there were no problems with the engine plates in SpaceY, and I am not sure why they would need to act as a decoupler. I know there's similar parts in the SpaceY mods. Let me check something.

The Engine Plates in the Making History DLC use the different-style attachment point definitions, which might have some effect, but also lack the fuel crossfeed settings that similar parts in SpaceY use.

SpaceY has these two lines in the .cfg

fuelCrossFeed = True
NoCrossFeedNodeKey = bottom

What's interesting is the engine mount points are all using the Unity method, like this:

	NODE
	{
		name = N9_9
		transform = N9_9
		size=1
		method=FIXED_JOINT
		rigid = true
	}

I have an old multi-size docking adaptor set from Cpt. Kipard which uses that definition style, and I tested it, but they don't have crossfeed.

But there is also a KSP-standard definition, like this:

			NODES
			{
				node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -1.25, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 2
			}

So it's possible that you could use Module Manager to add the crossfeed command, but the structure of the .cfg for the Making History parts is confusing me. It looks to be something that gives length variations for the Engine Plate.

It looks worth trying, but I am short on sleep and planning an early night. KSP has been messing up my sleep patterns.

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It seems to work perfectly fine in MJ (unless I messed up my test) so my guess would be that KER does not handle something properly.

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I reloaded the craft file and KER's math works out. I had a docking port jr. on the top connected to the service module above and it was pulling fuel across the port. On it's own the math for the MEM appears to be correct. KER may be working just fine.

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On 3/18/2018 at 12:58 PM, NewtSoup said:

What's important to me though is if KER does fall by the wayside I'll need to know how to move the KER modules from my save files so that I don't lose vessels / missions in progress.

For parts that just link in mod functionality, I always try to avoid them for just this issue.  I either use custom settings to make the mod functions partless (KER has this) or add in a ModuleManager script to make the mod effectively partless by adding the appropriate MODULE to Command Pod parts.

Editing save files is very tricky.  There's a workaround you could do.  For your save files that include the KER parts, if you remove KER, leave behind its Parts directory ("GameData/KerbalEnginer/Parts/").  It'll have the 2 KER parts (Engineer 7500 and Engineer Chip) but there will be no KER windows or functions.  And pure and simple parts like this usually last through several KSP updates without breaking or even needing minor edits.

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On 3/18/2018 at 12:58 PM, NewtSoup said:

What's important to me though is if KER does fall by the wayside I'll need to know how to move the KER modules from my save files so that I don't lose vessels / missions in progress.

As well, you could start transitioning to partless KER.  In the VAB, go into KER settings and switch to partless.  To hide the KER parts on the tech tree and in the VAB/SPH but not break existing .craft files and in flight, you can use my MM script below to do that.

Spoiler

// MMJ-KerbalEngineer-Part-Block.<date-version>.cfg
//
// Powered by ialdabaoth and sarbian's ModuleManager
//      http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/50533--/
// ModuleManager config coding by Jacke
//      http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/profile/103694-jacke/
// Licence Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0
//      http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/4.0/
//
// Include this file with mod Kerbal Engineer
//
// for Kerbal Engineer
//
// Kerbal Engineer can be configured to be partless and not need actual Engineers
// block Kerbal Engineer function parts from showing in tech tree or editors
// while still allowing existing .craft files to have them.
//
// Version 20180321a
//
// 2018 Mar 21 Wed  change @TechRequired to -TechRequired
// 2017 Sep 04 Mon  added :NEEDS[KerbalEngineer]
// 2017 Aug 19 Sat  75 Anniversary of the Dieppe Raid - Lest We Forget
//                  confirmed good for Kerbal Engineer 1.1.3
// 2016 Dec 14 Wed  MM coding by Jacke similar to Mahal's StockPlugins
//
// where    GameData/KerbalEngineer/
// what     values for tech node & part category
// file     all part files for Kerbal Engineer function parts
// part     all Kerbal Engineer function parts
//
//
@PART[Engineer7500|EngineerChip]:NEEDS[KerbalEngineer]:FINAL
{
	-TechRequired = Unresearcheable
	@category = none
}
//
// END OF MMJ-KerbalEngineer-Part-Block.<date-version>.cfg

 

 

This way, all new .craft designs created and made won't need the KER parts.  If you look at existing designs, you'll see the KER parts on the rocket but not available as parts (and these shouldn't be editted until all examples in flight have landed).

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