Updated Terms Notice & Privacy Policy

[steve_v]

1 hour ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

This also gives a last line of defence against hackers.

What do "hackers" have to do with Take Two getting your information?
Jeez. Are "hackers" are the new bogeymen, to be invoked whenever you want to scare someone in an IT related context?
How are they going to extract your personal information from Take Two anyway? What makes you think your PC is more secure than their servers?

Whenever someone starts ranting about hackers, I tend to think that they either have no idea what they're talking about, or are simply trying to scare people.
If you can point out an exploitable security flaw in TTs data storage, then go ahead. Otherwise, hackers have nothing to do with this.

Edited March 11, 2018 by steve_v

[radonek]

2 hours ago, steve_v said:

Jeez. Are "hackers" are the new bogeymen, to be invoked whenever you want to scare someone in an IT related context?

Agreed so far.

2 hours ago, steve_v said:

How are they going to extract your personal information from Take Two anyway? What makes you think your PC is more secure than their servers?
…
If you can point out an exploitable security flaw in TTs data storage, then go ahead. Otherwise, hackers have nothing to do with this.

Are you implying that large swaths of personal data are not being extracted from corporate networks on almost daily basis? Even from entities that really should know better?

[steve_v]

1 hour ago, radonek said:

Are you implying that large swaths of personal data are not being extracted from corporate networks on almost daily basis? Even from entities that really should know better?

I wouldn't say daily, but sure, several large organisations have been cracked recently. Organisations that are much, much juicer targets than Take Two Interactive.
It's possible that this happens to TT, but then it's equally possible that some zero-day driveby grabs your data right out of your browser. People's private PCs are also being cracked (and cryptolocked) on an almost daily basis.

I'd prefer that TT didn't have any sensitive data of mine, but it's hardly a "gift to the hackers of this world" as some have claimed here. Their servers are almost certainly more secure than the average Windows user's PC, if only because of what it would do to their rep if they leaked.

Besides, you don't actually have to give them anything horribly sensitive anyway. The EULA is just a catch-all in case you do.

Edited March 11, 2018 by steve_v

[Van Disaster]

17 hours ago, klgraham1013 said:

Isn't that what people are trying to do?  If we've learned anything the past 5 years, lies can get people fired; ruin businesses.  I'm not saying this won't blow over in a few weeks.  I'm asking how saying "We aren't collecting this stuff" is somehow legal advise, or open to interpretation.  Maybe if businesses started talking like people, we would start trusting them more.

I'm sure if it got bad enough that it was likely to actually lose sales someone would speak up - PR is cheaper than court cases ( especially random people on the internet who might not have any cash to hand over anyway ) given the legal department would spend less time on checking a release. There's many members of the public in this thread doing their job for them just fine though. There's been a few cases here of people trying to incite boycotts which I guess could be used as evidence of malicious attempts to cause material damage if there was a court case ( perhaps people should be a bit careful what they say without checking for evidence first, eh? ) but apparently not enough in a couple of days for it to matter.

Which is the better path? ignoring hysterical untruths or validating their existence by responding?

Edited March 11, 2018 by Van Disaster

[nightstalker101s]

I couldn't help but post this.. I love all of you. This forum had made me laugh and made me cry (laughing). I'm not even sure anyone by the end of this topic knows what the OP is or why it matters, but at least we know TT doesn't reserve the right to kick puppies. XD

Edited March 11, 2018 by nightstalker101s

[Cheif Operations Director]

Is nobody going to address my compromise with Take Two? I said that adding a clause that says take two won't take/mine that info off your computer unless you submit it to them would be fine. This way those who want to pay directly to Take Two can and as they do that accept the risk and people like me who just get steam giftcards are also happy. 

This way hackers can't attack Take Two they need to attack me. This means less users are less likely to be attacked seeing as all their data isn't in one spot. As to the person who thinks Take Two isn't a "juicy target" they own Rockstar Games, Private Division, and the NBA 2K series. Some of these are the best selling games of all time. One such game is GTA V which sold 85 million copies as of 2013! That is five years ago and atleast of 1/3 is of the population of the United States. That doesn't include smaller games such as KSP and NBA 2K series at the many other game franchises they own. Is some ways Take Two IS A BIG TARGET. 

Also they had 3 Billion in Assets and 1.117 Billion in revenue in 2017.

If you want a citation for my numbers here it is:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Take-Two_Interactive

https://www.take2games.com/games/

[Galileo]

18 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Is nobody going to address my compromise with Take Two? I said that adding a clause that says take two won't take/mine that info off your computer unless you submit it to them would be fine. This way those who want to pay directly to Take Two can and as they do that accept the risk and people like me who just get steam giftcards are also happy. 

I mean, TT is not going to change it because a small group of people need their hand held while they read a EULA that is pretty general across the board and in probably more than one game they own. It’s pretty simple; don’t give them your info, they can’t store it for “hackers to get” or whatever you are worried about. Amazon stores people’s info, but if people don’t feel comfortable inputting their bank info or name and address, they just don’t use Amazon and shop elsewhere with cash. It’s a personal option. Only you can prevent data collection, and it starts with you making the decision to not  type in your info. Nothing is stopping you from using a gift card and being happy. And nothing is stopping me from willingly giving them my info, and also being happy, regardless of the EULA.

That being said, many people saw your comment, but most people are tired of the circular arguments. So are you here to argue and kick up more dirt, or did you just want someone to acknowledge your comment, as I did?

this exact type of EULA has been around for years, and people have been able to make that decision for themselves. Give this a week or two and everybody will go back to quickly hitting “I agree” and jumping to the game without blinking. This only got as big as it did because TT was tied to it.

Edited March 12, 2018 by Galileo

[Cheif Operations Director]

P.S. Their stock trades higher than Aerojet Rocketdyne, Good Year Tire, Qualcomm, and Verizon just to name a few.

Its within a dollar of JP Morgan and Chevron. 

It's within 15 dollars of Visa.

 

I understand this really means nothing when you look at how many shares are outheir in a company. I understand that one of you is going to come back at me about valuation and try to "educate" me because "I'm obviously am just like super dumb or whatever" I understand that it means nothing BUT it does show that they are no small time studio or firm as some people here I think are thing to imply. SQUAD shares pre purchases by Take Two I doubt would have traded that high if unless they only had a few shares on the market. 

Citations:

https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/index/djia

https://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/ttwo

 

[Starman4308]

Just now, Cheif Operations Director said:

P.S. Their stock trades higher than Aerojet Rocketdyne, Good Year Tire, Qualcomm, and Verizon just to name a few.

Its within a dollar of JP Morgan and Chevron. 

It's within 15 dollars of Visa.

 

I understand this really means nothing when you look at how many shares are outheir in a company. I understand that one of you is going to come back at me about valuation and try to "educate" me because "I'm obviously am just like super dumb or whatever" I understand that it means nothing BUT it does show that they are no small time studio or firm as some people here I think are thing to imply. SQUAD shares pre purchases by Take Two I doubt would have traded that high if unless they only had a few shares on the market. 

Citations:

https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/index/djia

https://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/ttwo

 

What, precisely, does this have to do with the TOS/EULA/privacy policy?

Seriously, the sky, falling it is not. The scenario you outlined is absurd, based wholly on an overly-broad, layman's interpretation of a legal document of questionable enforceability, without any consideration of any other factor.

[Derb]

5 minutes ago, Galileo said:

It’s pretty simple; don’t give them your info, they can’t store it for “hackers to get” or whatever you are worried about.

@Cheif Operations Director - this, a thousand times this. If you don't give them your information, how exactly are they going to get it? You point back to the agreement giving them permission to collect and store data, and that's all well and good, but the information has to come from you in the first place. They can't collect what they aren't given. If you have concerns about them mining the data without your knowledge, learn how to configure your firewall so any data collection associated with KSP is blocked.

[Cheif Operations Director]

4 minutes ago, Galileo said:

I mean, TT is not going to change it because a small group of people need their hand held while they read a EULA that is pretty general across the board and in probably more than one game they own. It’s pretty simple; don’t give them your info, they can’t store it for “hackers to get” or whatever you are worried about. Amazon stores people’s info, but if people don’t feel comfortable inputting their bank info or name and address, they just don’t use Amazon and shop elsewhere with cash. It’s a personal option. Only you can prevent data collection, and it starts with you making the decision to not  type in your info. Nothing is stopping you from using a gift card and being happy. And nothing is stopping me from willingly giving them my info, and also being happy, regardless of the EULA.

That being said, many people saw your comment, but most people are tired of the circular arguments. So are you here to argue and kick up more dirt, or did you just want someone to acknowledge your comment, as I did?

this exact type of EULA has been around for years, and people have been able to make that decision for themselves. Give this a week or two and everybody will go back to quickly hitting “I agree” and jumping to the game without blinking. This only got as big as it did because TT was tied to it.

I gave you the proof that Take Two is a realistic target for a hacker. Yes Squad isn't that realistic of a target but Take Two is. That's why people are concerned. Squad talked to the customers because they cared more and had a small base. Take Two would sell KSP and leave it in the dirt if they could make a profit. I understand that's the end goal of a game but  compared to other games if Take Two they couldn't care less other than for profit. Stop trying to insult and such by saying "need their hand held"  and such. I understand the EULA and the fact that their isn't most likely any mining going on at this time, This isn't a conspiracy theory. My concern is that Take Two will see the dollar signs with an advertisement firm and do some mining of data with a smaller game of theirs like KSP which is nothing compared to their empire make us mad but we can do nothing about it "because we agreed" Nobody who plays GTA V is going to care that KSP data was mined unless they play KSP sure it's a PR problem but it isn't going to change anything. A change of the EULA with said clause would also show us some goodwill on the part of Take Two that they intend good along with profits. I'm not blatantly suggesting Take Two doesn't care about KSP, they do but they will dump it from a sensible business prospective if it is no longer profitable. It's a concern and one that Take Two needs to solve.

3 minutes ago, Derb said:

@Cheif Operations Director - this, a thousand times this. If you don't give them your information, how exactly are they going to get it? You point back to the agreement giving them permission to collect and store data, and that's all well and good, but the information has to come from you in the first place. They can't collect what they aren't given. If you have concerns about them mining the data without your knowledge, learn how to configure your firewall so any data collection associated with KSP is blocked.

If I log into a bank account and set it to "remember me" and then Take Two has the right to mine my computer for banking information... I want you to connect the dots. 

[Derb]

3 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

If I log into a bank account and set it to "remember me" and then Take Two has the right to mine my computer for banking information... I want you to connect the dots.

They can't if you configure your firewall.

Edit: I don't like describing what T2 can do under the Terms as "rights". They have contractual permission sure, but rights are usually those inalienable things granted equally to everyone. Sure you can say it that way because the word has broad meaning, but don't forget those connotations. It reads in a fearmongering way.

Edited March 12, 2018 by Derb

[Cheif Operations Director]

1 hour ago, Starman4308 said:

What, precisely, does this have to do with the TOS/EULA/privacy policy?

Seriously, the sky, falling it is not. The scenario you outlined is absurd, based wholly on an overly-broad, layman's interpretation of a legal document of questionable enforceability, without any consideration of any other factor.

Ok again "I'm absured and dumb, blah blah blah" It  has nothing to do with the EULA other than the fact that Take Two is a big target for a hacker.

[snip]

 

55 minutes ago, Derb said:

They can't if you configure your firewall.

How do you do that, and firewalls can be broken.

[snip]

[Derb]

9 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

How do you do that, and firewalls can be broken.

I believe in Windows you just open up Defender Firewall and create a new rule and block the program of choice from outbound connections.

[Cheif Operations Director]

Take indentured servents for example. They technically have unalienable rights... , until they sign them away. 

[Cheif Operations Director]

Just now, Derb said:

I believe in Windows you just open up Defender Firewall and create a new rule and block the program of choice from outbound connections.

This is a foreign language  to me I'm not computer savvy. Only enough to operate them.

[James Kerman]

Simple instructions on configuring windows firewall to block/unblock software:
https://www.technipages.com/blockunblock-programs-in-windows-firewall

[Cheif Operations Director]

32 minutes ago, James Kerman said:

Simple instructions on configuring windows firewall to block/unblock software:
https://www.technipages.com/blockunblock-programs-in-windows-firewall

Thanks I'll look into In when I have some more time .

[snip]

Edited March 12, 2018 by Vanamonde

[Vanamonde]

Some posts have been removed from this thread or edited. Please don't make the arguments personal, and stick to the topic. 

[Derb]

15 minutes ago, James Kerman said:

Simple instructions on configuring windows firewall to block/unblock software:
https://www.technipages.com/blockunblock-programs-in-windows-firewall

@Cheif Operations Director - As to concerns about firewalls being compromised: If you don't think your firewall can adequately protect you, you could go the more extreme route of creating a new boot disk solely for KSP which you only load up when physically unplugged from the internet. I don't have the energy to explain that process at the moment, but I'm sure you can find what you need on a site similar to the one linked above, if you choose to go that route. (Look for 'dual booting' a computer - often used for two different operating systems, but no reason you can't do it with two of the same. You'll want to do it with an external hard drive or USB [if you can get one that will fit the OS and KSP on it] that can be disconnected when running the online OS, for added security.) Simply put it would be like having another computer without needing to have all of the additional hardware. No way for data to be mined through KSP if your ethernet cable isn't plugged in and you aren't connected to Wifi, and the data can't be sent when you reconnect because that virtual computer will never be booted (or even attached with external HD) while connected to the internet.

I know this doesn't address the underlying philosophical issues you have with the Terms, but it would be the most foolproof practical solution to your concerns that I can offer.

[Cheif Operations Director]

1 minute ago, Vanamonde said:

Some posts have been removed from this thread or edited. Please don't make the arguments personal, and stick to the topic. 

Thanks

[Rocket In My Pocket]

On 3/10/2018 at 2:59 PM, Starman4308 said:

I've looked into it a bit, and on this specific case, I would concede that the woman did deserve some compensation and that industrial standard needed to change. I apologize for bringing up a case that wasn't as relevant as I thought to the discussion.

Just wanted to say; it takes a real man to take a step back and admit he was wrong.

Much respect.

[Cheif Operations Director]

Just now, Rocket In My Pocket said:

Just wanted to say; it takes a real man to take a step back and admit he was wrong.

Much respect.

I Concur

[artwhaley]

I've been gone from KSP most of a year.   I really tried to read through this whole thread.   I really tried.  But... seriously people.    This is a non-event.   If it SEEMS important to you, by all means, go play something else.   Preferably something you code from scratch in assembly without a bootloader... so you aren't subject to anyone else's Draconian EULA.   Truly it's a testament to how good your life is that this is what you have to be upset about!   It's good to be you.  Remember that.  

Do you guys all remove your cell phone batteries and dump the phone into a bucket of water before you play KSP to keep the NSA from tapping in and finding out how you get to Duna?  

[Cheif Operations Director]

Just now, artwhaley said:

I've been gone from KSP most of a year.   I really tried to read through this whole thread.   I really tried.  But... seriously people.    This is a non-event.   If it SEEMS important to you, by all means, go play something else.   Preferably something you code from scratch in assembly without a bootloader... so you aren't subject to anyone else's Draconian EULA.   Truly it's a testament to how good your life is that this is what you have to be upset about!   It's good to be you.  Remember that.  

Do you guys all remove your cell phone batteries and dump the phone into a bucket of water before you play KSP to keep the NSA from tapping in and finding out how you get to Duna?  

That isn't the concern. The new EULA allows Take Two to take much personal information from you. So much that they could identify you in almost anyway. The concern is that Take Two will get greedy and sell it,  OR that a hacker will take it.