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[adsii1970]

7 hours ago, Space Kadet said:

And when they stop making money from a game, how dose it hurt them to implament these things and carry on... it dosent it makes them money for a fun title, itll liquid off some fanboys (ironically the ones thet are saying they woundent do it) but thats a small price to pay for profit. And as anyone with no eyes can see in the dark AAA gaming in general has done this over and over again.

But until that time comes...

Right now, in my Steam library, I still play about eight games where either the production company doesn't exist anymore OR the production company has moved on from the title and are now doing other things. But the games are still in my Steam library and I can and do play them. I imagine that before Squad or TakeTwo puts KSP behind some sort of paywall, it will be on another game platform besides Unity. In fact, I think one of the reasons we haven't seen more development and refinement in KSP is because of the limitations of Unity.

In the late 1970s and the early 1980s, I, like many of the older players here, began learning programming basic from PC World Magazine. And at the time I was programming in Basic, a new platform, MS-DOS was coming out. And even though it was easier than using the old fashioned Basic, many of us saw the potential for programming but still held on to the Basic we knew so well. By 1989, MS-DOS had taken over even PC World Magazine and we were gently coerced into following suit. I imagine much is the same with our current development team from @SQUAD.

I'm not a Squad employee nor do I have any additional insight other than my experience. But I consider KSP 1.4 and all previous editions as a sort of a testing ground for Squad. They know the concept works, they know that folks will buy it. And they are aware, as programmers, of better gaming platforms out there. So there will come a time when the current version of KSP becomes Roller Coaster Tycoon - an older edition that's no longer supported. And we can either go purchase and install the newly released version of whatever Kerbal Space Program becomes or we can continue to play the version we have.

The EULA is not a deal breaker to me. I work in higher education and let me tell you, if you're melting down over this EULA, then you'd melt down over what I had to agree to. For one of the universities I work for (I am a part-time instructor at two), if I publish anything, regardless of the publisher, I must give "credit" to that university either in a brief (and very stock) bio line and have to give their publishing division consideration for publication BEFORE I go to an outside publisher or self-publish. No, I do not like it and think it is draconian - since the university also claims a "administrative fee" on any royalties generated if they are the publisher of the book. But it is a part of the agreement which allows me to work.

If Take Two/Squad wants to collect data on the type of system I have, on the operating system I am using, and even my Steam activity, I have no problem with it. That information is already collected by Facebook (oh, and they collect a lot more than that), Google, Bing (Microsoft), and even my ISP. With the Internet, privacy died a long time ago and we shouldn't act shocked or angry when we realize even our gaming data is up for grabs.

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2018 by adsii1970

[Space Kadet]

that seems an od analogy as the university employes you, they take a credit because they pay your wage. im fine with a games company taking my data if they are going to pay me for it. but to make your analogy correct it would mean that you paid the universitys your wage and they still took some of your stuff. 

facebook google and the rest collect data, but they are free. i dont like it, but its the barter they demand in exchange for their product.

But thats wasent my point and im not against the eula, i agreed to it after reading it (and storing a separate version of the game) , my point, and dismay was at the amount of people that where on here saying 'they cant do that' or 'i know they CAN, but they WOULDENT EVER' even after they have done it with other games. I was so stumped at how naive people are just because they like the game. And i think you are right, it wont be this game it happens too itll be their next one. that dosent mean they cant do it. 


but to end this on a cheery note heres a random fact for you on tracking. if you create a new google account and disable all tracking and relivent data cookies, and just let it know your male and in your 30s, the majority of adds you see are for 'asian wives' or 'asian women' i literally did this on a fresh computer no cookies or trackers and different mac and ip addresses in every country i drove through a year back (half of europe) and always the same adds after you created the new account and logged into chrome!

theres some weirdness you never needed to know :p 


 

Edited August 14, 2018 by Space Kadet

[Phelan]

As the title says, has there been any movement about changing the current EULA which is actually violating European law?

And yes, this isn't just a wild guess, Gamestar has asked a lawyer about it; if you can read German, here's the article - https://www.gamestar.de/artikel/kerbal-space-program-spyware-vorwuerfe-neue-softwarelizenz-bringt-spieler-auf-die-palme,3329796.html

Edited August 29, 2018 by Phelan
linked source

[Vanamonde]

Overlapping threads have been merged. 

[Kernel Kraken]

Obligatory meme:

WE HAVE UPDATED OUR PRIVACY POLICY

Edited August 30, 2018 by Vanamonde
Don't get carried away with font sizes, please.

[Kerbital]

So I haven't played in many months. I launched the game today and there is a message during startup that Unity collects "certain" personal information. I'd like to know "exactly" what personal information is collected. What does Unity have access to?

[Space Kadet]

19 minutes ago, Kerbital said:

So I haven't played in many months. I launched the game today and there is a message during startup that Unity collects "certain" personal information. I'd like to know "exactly" what personal information is collected. What does Unity have access to?

under rough t&cs that would be 

"The information we collect may include personal information such as your first and/or last name, e-mail address, phone number, photo, mailing address, geolocation, or payment information. In addition, we may collect your age, gender, date of birth, zip code, hardware configuration, console ID, software products played, survey data, purchases, IP address and the systems you have played on. We may combine the information with your personal information and across other computers or devices that you may use."

dosen anyone remember what happened to playstation when they had this data and got hacked.... do you think t2 or unity spends as much money on their security.....

[linuxgurugamer]

2 hours ago, Space Kadet said:

under rough t&cs that would be 

"The information we collect may include personal information such as your first and/or last name, e-mail address, phone number, photo, mailing address, geolocation, or payment information. In addition, we may collect your age, gender, date of birth, zip code, hardware configuration, console ID, software products played, survey data, purchases, IP address and the systems you have played on. We may combine the information with your personal information and across other computers or devices that you may use."

dosen anyone remember what happened to playstation when they had this data and got hacked.... do you think t2 or unity spends as much money on their security.....

They don't scan your computer for that information, that's a generic paragraph.  But when you register at Unity, they get some of that info.  

Specifically they could be reasonably getting the hardware configuration.

Edited August 30, 2018 by linuxgurugamer

[Space Kadet]

On 8/29/2018 at 5:23 PM, Phelan said:

As the title says, has there been any movement about changing the current EULA which is actually violating European law?

And yes, this isn't just a wild guess, Gamestar has asked a lawyer about it; if you can read German, here's the article - https://www.gamestar.de/artikel/kerbal-space-program-spyware-vorwuerfe-neue-softwarelizenz-bringt-spieler-auf-die-palme,3329796.html

no, its still against the law as under eu law you must be able to opt out, and they dont provide that option, but also 'technically' an eula isint binding, they have never been properly tested in a European court. you dont have to do anything it says.

[linuxgurugamer]

4 minutes ago, Space Kadet said:

no, its still against the law as under eu law you must be able to opt out, and they dont provide that option, but also 'technically' an eula isint binding, they have never been properly tested in a European court. you dont have to do anything it says.

There is an opt out, although I'm not thrilled with the way it works

[Space Kadet]

1 minute ago, linuxgurugamer said:

There is an opt out, although I'm not thrilled with the way it works

if you mean uninstalling it, thats not an option, and actually under eu law could be shown as extortion because you are not allowed to take money for a product and then change the details of the contract substantially or without agreement of both parties. 

you can change the terms of a service without agreement, but anyone not agreeing to it and having already paid for it must be refunded.

if there is another way i am curious thow?

 

[linuxgurugamer]

4 minutes ago, Space Kadet said:

if you mean uninstalling it, thats not an option, and actually under eu law could be shown as extortion because you are not allowed to take money for a product and then change the details of the contract substantially or without agreement of both parties. 

you can change the terms of a service without agreement, but anyone not agreeing to it and having already paid for it must be refunded.

if there is another way i am curious thow?

 

It's not simple, but it's mentioned on the page.  You need to go to the Unity site, and somehow (I didn't bother doing this) register and specify that no info is to be collected.

Like I said, I'm not thrilled with it, but don't really care too much about it.  There are so many other way for information to be gathered, I'm not concerned about the minimal info they get from KSP

[Space Kadet]

4 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

It's not simple, but it's mentioned on the page.  You need to go to the Unity site, and somehow (I didn't bother doing this) register and specify that no info is to be collected.

Like I said, I'm not thrilled with it, but don't really care too much about it.  There are so many other way for information to be gathered, I'm not concerned about the minimal info they get from KSP

i love that in its beautiful irony, you have to register and give them more details to tell them to stop taking your details. I dont really mind beacause i run a blocker anyway, but if i see anything sending my personal data im not gonna be happy.

ive been screwed by adobe once and saw my mates card get maxed in 2007 after the PSN BS thank god for visa insurance.

[linuxgurugamer]

1 minute ago, Space Kadet said:

i love that in its beautiful irony, you have to register and give them more details to tell them to stop taking your details. I dont really mind beacause i run a blocker anyway, but if i see anything sending my personal data im not gonna be happy.

ive been screwed by adobe once and saw my mates card get maxed in 2007 after the PSN BS thank god for visa insurance.

That's what I don't like about it.  It may be technically legal, but it's on the hairy edge

[halina]

On 3/12/2018 at 3:29 PM, nightstalker101s said:

I guess I'll say a little more although I know it is a waste of my time. 

1. If I share a picture I own the rights to on the forum and one of the forum administrators shares its elsewhere then I have the right legally to take action. The EULA's purpose is to prevent these accidental actions of its employees from leading to a lawsuit.

2. If you have an awesome mod that makes the game more functional and you post a link to the content with a Totally, Take Two cannot steal your mod or code. Please note that this is if you shared a link to another site. If you posted the content directly to their site then they again have rights to it.  What they can do because you have explained its purpose is to recreate the content themselves. The other site is out of their reach. They then don't have to credit you and most likely won't credit you as they have recreated it. You have given them the right to "STEAL" your idea by posting it to the forum. Which again is to protect the company from being sued or having other legal action taken. 

3. The EULA is written in a way to protect the company. Not to steal your identity and blackmail you into sending them nudes. 

 

2

Totally agree with you. Also, I think that NDA contract is really good way to protect ideas.

[Cheif Operations Director]

I'm  not going to accept the new EULA. I want to play game on th latest version I can play with the old EULA.  However when I tried reverting it in steam it still wanted by Approval for the new EULA. What is the last version with the old EULA? I want to double check I have it right

Edited May 25, 2019 by Cheif Operations Director
Content

[Gargamel]

Overlapping threads have been merged.

[Lisias]

On 5/25/2019 at 4:37 PM, Cheif Operations Director said:

I'm  not going to accept the new EULA. I want to play game on th latest version I can play with the old EULA.  However when I tried reverting it in steam it still wanted by Approval for the new EULA. What is the last version with the old EULA? I want to double check I have it right

What EULA? The first big change that I'm aware came with 1.4.0 .

You can use Steam's Console to download 1.3.1 without having to click on EULAs. As long you bought the game before accepting the >= 1.4.0 EULA, you are entitled. If you had bough the game after 2018-0306, you had accepted that EULA and as far as I understand, you are already bound to it no matter the KSP version you choose to use.

Then came a new updated EULA on 2019-0315 (yearly updates?) . The first KSP version with this EULA is 1.7.0, so you would wanna to keep yourself up to 1.6.1 if this is the EULA you are angry about. As long you had bough the game before this date, you should be fine. Otherwise, you are already bound to the EULA.

[Cheif Operations Director]

38 minutes ago, Lisias said:

What EULA? The first big change that I'm aware came with 1.4.0 .

You can use Steam's Console to download 1.3.1 without having to click on EULAs. As long you bought the game before accepting the >= 1.4.0 EULA, you are entitled. If you had bough the game after 2018-0306, you had accepted that EULA and as far as I understand, you are already bound to it no matter the KSP version you choose to use.

Then came a new updated EULA on 2019-0315 (yearly updates?) . The first KSP version with this EULA is 1.7.0, so you would wanna to keep yourself up to 1.6.1 if this is the EULA you are angry about. As long you had bough the game before this date, you should be fine. Otherwise, you are already bound to the EULA.

I can revert to 1.6.1 but it still wants me to accept the 2019 Eula

I guess I should be more clear the forum stated the new EULA will be realised Mar 27 19 but my EULA stil, says last updated October 2018. Mine in fully up to date so which Eula is it?

[Lisias]

2 hours ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

I can revert to 1.6.1 but it still wants me to accept the 2019 Eula

You can't blame them for trying.

Use the Steam Console to download the 1.6.1 manually. It's awkward , but it works and you don't have to click on that EULA. Depending the country you live it will not make any difference, but whatever - better safe than sorry.

I'm not aware of any other (legal and ethical) way to accomplish that.

[Cheif Operations Director]

1 minute ago, Lisias said:

You can't blame them for trying.

Use the Steam Console to download the 1.6.1 manually. It's awkward , but it works and you don't have to click on that EULA. Depending the country you live it will not make any difference, but whatever - better safe than sorry.

I'm not aware of any other (legal and ethical) way to accomplish that.

Did you see the second part of my quote?

1 minute ago, Lisias said:

You can't blame them for trying.

Use the Steam Console to download the 1.6.1 manually. It's awkward , but it works and you don't have to click on that EULA. Depending the country you live it will not make any difference, but whatever - better safe than sorry.

I'm not aware of any other (legal and ethical) way to accomplish that.

Ok I will try that when I get some time

[Lisias]

Just now, Cheif Operations Director said:

Did you see the second part of my quote?

Yes, but it's not relevant for 1.6.1 and previous. You are bound to the EULA you accepted by the last time, and no one else.

A lot of confusion would be prevented by adding the EULA to the depot itself, but whatever. Things are what things are.

This Forum's posts about the EULA are canon to the subject anyway.

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/search/&q=eula&author=UomoCapra&sortby=relevancy&search_and_or=or&search_in=all

You will find them (somewhere on that mess) on the Announcements on Steam:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/220200/announcements/

Interesting enough, I'm facing some difficulties on locating the original KSP EULA.  All I can find is the TT2 "Standard" EULA for their games, that what's is being enforced since March/15 I think.

https://www.take2games.com/eula/

If I find something, I will post a follow up.

[Cheif Operations Director]

1 hour ago, Lisias said:

Yes, but it's not relevant for 1.6.1 and previous. You are bound to the EULA you accepted by the last time, and no one else.

A lot of confusion would be prevented by adding the EULA to the depot itself, but whatever. Things are what things are.

This Forum's posts about the EULA are canon to the subject anyway.

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/search/&q=eula&author=UomoCapra&sortby=relevancy&search_and_or=or&search_in=all

You will find them (somewhere on that mess) on the Announcements on Steam:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/220200/announcements/

Interesting enough, I'm facing some difficulties on locating the original KSP EULA.  All I can find is the TT2 "Standard" EULA for their games, that what's is being enforced since March/15 I think.

https://www.take2games.com/eula/

If I find something, I will post a follow up.

I can post it here tommorow