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Updated Terms Notice & Privacy Policy

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1 minute ago, Shushoni said:

That's not how it works. They already have your IP address because you're using it to rage on these forums. It genuinely seems like you don't understand how the internet and IP addresses work. You don't need to type it in. It's all automatic. You simply connecting to the internet means you've given your IP Address out.

I said they take it without me typing it in right? That's how it works because I'm connected to the internet they have my IP address. I get it. 

Im saying they can collect that information without me knowing. They have the ABILITY and the RIGHT to do it.

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Just now, Cheif Operations Director said:

I said they take it without me typing it in right? That's how it works because I'm connected to the internet they have my IP address. I get it. 

Im saying they can collect that information without me knowing. They have the ABILITY and the RIGHT to do it.

They get your IP when you connect to one of their services, be it an online part of a game, or even an internet forum etc, that's why it's in the EULA they need you to agee to the fact that your IP is exposed to them when you use their services. 

As for the EULA giving them the right to mine your computer, I'm not convinced it does.  The EULA is implied to apply the software you are using, in this case KSP.  The agreement for collecting information would therefore also be implied to include information given and exchanged within the application.  I don't think agreeing to this EULA would actually give them the right mine data from parts of your computer that are not considered part of the application.  I'm not a lawyer of course, but you're agreeing to a contract relating to KSP, and so all the agreements are implied to apply to KSP or it's associated online services, if any.

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Just now, AngryBadger said:

They get your IP when you connect to one of their services, be it an online part of a game, or even an internet forum etc, that's why it's in the EULA they need you to agee to the fact that your IP is exposed to them when you use their services. 

As for the EULA giving them the right to mine your computer, I'm not convinced it does.  The EULA is implied to apply the software you are using, in this case KSP.  The agreement for collecting information would therefore also be implied to include information given and exchanged within the application.  I don't think agreeing to this EULA would actually give them the right mine data from parts of your computer that are not considered part of the application.  I'm not a lawyer of course, but you're agreeing to a contract relating to KSP, and so all the agreements are implied to apply to KSP or it's associated online services, if any.

When you connect to the internet the "Internet" technically mines your IP address without your approval. Technically.

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3 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

I said they take it without me typing it in right? That's how it works because I'm connected to the internet they have my IP address. I get it. 

Im saying they can collect that information without me knowing. They have the ABILITY and the RIGHT to do it.

Frankly, EVERYBODY has the ability and the right to get the IP-adress of those who seek a connection to them.

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Just now, Cheif Operations Director said:

When you connect to the internet the "Internet" technically mines your IP address without your approval. Technically.

You're right in that it's exposed to the outside world.  The reason Take Two has to make it clear that they are collecting it and you are agreeing to it, is because it's personally identifiable information and they are doing their best to cover every single base they can to avoid legal issues down the road.

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16 minutes ago, AngryBadger said:

You're right in that it's exposed to the outside world.  The reason Take Two has to make it clear that they are collecting it and you are agreeing to it, is because it's personally identifiable information and they are doing their best to cover every single base they can to avoid legal issues down the road.

It wouldn't be such a problem if that would be the only reason, but it is not. At the same time you agree with that, you agree with their right to sell all your information to third parties.

Edited by TheCardinal

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1 hour ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

They why does the EULA and Privacy Policy allow them to do it?

Because it is an EULA.
 

1 hour ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

The facts you surrender the ability to keep your information such as zip code and IP address secret is a gift to the hackers of this world.

Uh huh. Ip addresses were supposed to be public, from day-one of the internet. And GeoIP is nothing new, thousands of websites know your location.

 

1 hour ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Don't call people dumb and such for whatever reasons. It's called a Strawman arguement.

It's nothing of the sort, I suggest you recheck your definitions. I was referring to those spreading unsubstantiated FUD, which was the topic of the post I replied to.
People are both stupid and gullible, if they continue to believe that an application is doing something which repeatable evidence shows it is not, without testing such claims themselves. If they then spread misinformation, they are also amazing persons as horrific as this profanity filter.
Trace the syscalls, cap the packets. Then you can make the case that KSP collects unreasonable user data and/or scrapes your filesystem.
I have, it doesn't. But don't believe me, check it yourself.

 

1 hour ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

You do surrender your right to that privacy. So they technically could if they wanted too.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be a PR nightmare but they CAN. And Hackers would take advantage of that

Oh, I see. Those nefarious Hackers. Do you even hack bro?
Clearly, you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

1 hour ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

For all those know it all's I know you can't start a sentence with And ok?

Riiight. :confused:

 

1 hour ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

WE DONT HAVE ONLINE PURCHASES!

Calm down, it's just boilerplate. Probably the same EULA they use for all their games.

 

1 hour ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

I intend to only use steam cards to buy the expansion.

Oh dear, looks like they're out of stock. If you give me your postal address, I have spares.

 

1 hour ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Why does Take-Two need my info if I don't want to give it to them and I want to get the expansion though an an alternate means.

Your choice is a simple one. Agree to the silly license, or stop playing KSP. There is no legal "alternate means".

 

59 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Again why do they need my banking info if I want make a purchase to them directly?

They don't. It's in there to allow them to store it on their servers if you provide it to make a purchase. Boilerplate.

 

TT are only going to get information that a) you give them by entering it into a form, willingly, or b)  a product sends home, which one can trivially block. What's the big deal?

------

2 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

I'm not complaining about IP addresses. 

Oh, really?:

1 hour ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

The facts you surrender the ability to keep your information such as zip code and IP address secret is a gift to the hackers of this world.

Sure looks like that to me.

Edited by steve_v
Oh god, he's still going.

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Just now, TheCardinal said:

It wouldn't be such a problem if that would the only reason, but it is not. At the same time you agree with that, you agree with their right to sell all your information to third parties.

Exactly,

quick off-topic question why won't my KSP load it gets stuck on "Expansion Complete" in the yellow bar. Everything is loaded and looks like it's ready to launch then it just quits? Anyone?

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1 minute ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Exactly,

quick off-topic question why won't my KSP load it gets stuck on "Expansion Complete" in the yellow bar. Everything is loaded and looks like it's ready to launch then it just quits? Anyone?

I had that, I just force closed it and rebooted my PC.  I'm pretty much playing on a potato laptop for the next month at least so I'm used to this kinda thing happening.  Maybe it'll help?

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2 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Exactly,

quick off-topic question why won't my KSP load it gets stuck on "Expansion Complete" in the yellow bar. Everything is loaded and looks like it's ready to launch then it just quits? Anyone?

Would you be willing to post your output log?

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Locked, pending trimming.

   There was some backseat moderating going on, which has been removed. Sorry, I also had to remove or edit a few other posts that quoted and reacted to the backseat moderation - no fault to them, but it's no good removing a post if I leave the quotes in!   

   Please try to avoid attacking other forum users, even in an anonymous "what is the forum coming to" fashion.   

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30 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

I have no idea what that is.

It’s a debug file that allows modders to see what causing issues in your install.

the location of the file changed with 1.4, so I can’t tell you where to find it anymore and my “how to get support” button is outdated now.

Edited by Galileo

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3 hours ago, klgraham1013 said:

So, if I start saying lies about you, you're not going to speak up?  This is real life that could affect their reputation.  Say something.

If it causes me material loss due to damage to my reputation or something I'll sue you for libel. Otherwise, oh no - someone said something untrue about me on the internet, what will I do now!

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8 minutes ago, Van Disaster said:

If it causes me material loss due to damage to my reputation...

Isn't that what people are trying to do?  If we've learned anything the past 5 years, lies can get people fired; ruin businesses.  I'm not saying this won't blow over in a few weeks.  I'm asking how saying "We aren't collecting this stuff" is somehow legal advise, or open to interpretation.  Maybe if businesses started talking like people, we would start trusting them more.

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8 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

I'm asking how saying "We aren't collecting this stuff" is somehow legal advise, or open to interpretation.

What if some of that stuff accidentally ends up on their servers? What if they decide to change their minds on what to collect, some time in the future?
Defining "this stuff" is going to require a committee, and those never decide anything.

EULAs are intentionally all-encompassing because it keeps options open and the company's ass well covered, it doesn't mean they're going to actually use any of it.

8 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

Maybe if businesses started talking like people, we would start trusting them more.

Amen. It will never happen though.

If you ask me, TT deserves a bit of bad press over this. That EULA is pretty ridiculous.

Edited by steve_v

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3 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

Isn't that what people are trying to do?  If we've learned anything the past 5 years, lies can get people fired; ruin businesses.  I'm not saying this won't blow over in a few weeks.  I'm asking how saying "We aren't collecting this stuff" is somehow legal advise, or open to interpretation.  Maybe if businesses started talking like people, we would start trusting them more.

Because with all the frivolous and idiotic lawsuits companies have lost over the years, they've learned to clam up and not offer the slightest hint of weakness. They'll say nothing that might weaken their EULA, they'll say nothing that might hint at a guarantee, all because they've lost lawsuits.

There's been lawsuits like "I spilled my hot coffee from McDonalds: I'll sue them for not labeling their coffee".

It's a miserable situation we're in because of a handful of people and a handful of corporations that abuse their situation and force everybody else to walk a tightrope.

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I work for one of the largest financial companies in the world. Their silly social media policy actually forbids me from telling you which one over the internet, but you've almost certainly heard of them, wherever you are.

Anyway, Data Protection is a BIG DEAL. Let's not forget that this is a global agreement, but for the purposes of this post I will talk specifically about EU Law, because that's what I'm familiar with.

When you hand your data over to any company, by filling in a form etc, they take on the role of what is known as a "Data Controller" (which is a fancy way of saying "you gave them your data". That comes with many responsibilities, not least of which is you have to tell customers EXACTLY what you are collecting.

It sounds silly, I know - I am giving you xyz data, but you have to tell me that you are getting xyz data, even though I know you are getting it because I gave it to you, but that's the law.,

That's the reason for that clause that is getting people bent out of shape. They have to tell you everything they might ever reasonably need, even if they never get it from you specifically. Because if you do somehow get that data (for whatever reason - say you buy the DLC from the store for example) - and they haven't told you, they can get fines.

That's the reason for it. It's been proven that they aren't collecting personal data, but you might buy something from them. They are LEGALLY OBLIGED to tell you that if you do, they will have that information about you.

Oh, and to satisfy above mentioned silly social media policy: The post above is entirely my own opinion and does not necessarily represent the views of the company I work for.

Edited by severedsolo

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Probably the reason Squad/Take Two doesn't address some of the rants, raves and conspiracy theories online (forums or otherwise), is because they don't believe it's worth their time.  I seriously doubt scientists go out of their way to repeatedly try to convince flat-earthers that the Earth is a sphere, because conspiracy theories and paranoia are rarely ever de-bunked with facts in the eyes of those that believe in such theories, no matter what.  There will always be one more person in the crowd that stands up with a finger pointed at them and says "Yeah BUT....!"

Squad/Take Two could come online and state in a deadpan manner: "We are not doing anything nefarious.  We are not an evil corporation.  We are normal people trying to make a living by selling a product."  And you know what would happen?  There would still be a litany of forum posts here, or on Reddit, or elsewhere, lighting virtual torches to shout down the "liars".  Best to just let the forum threads run their course, let the moderators keep users from directing their anger at their fellow players, and keep driving forward with their product development and business.

Edited by Raptor9
the darned there/their/they're got me again lol

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20 minutes ago, Starman4308 said:

Because with all the frivolous and idiotic lawsuits companies have lost over the years, they've learned to clam up and not offer the slightest hint of weakness. They'll say nothing that might weaken their EULA, they'll say nothing that might hint at a guarantee, all because they've lost lawsuits.

There's been lawsuits like "I spilled my hot coffee from McDonalds: I'll sue them for not labeling their coffee".

It's a miserable situation we're in because of a handful of people and a handful of corporations that abuse their situation and force everybody else to walk a tightrope.

That McDonalds Lawsuit was justified. They overheated the coffee so hot that it burned to the plaintiffs bones if I remember correctly.y 

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46 minutes ago, Starman4308 said:

There's been lawsuits like "I spilled my hot coffee from McDonalds: I'll sue them for not labeling their coffee"

Its extremely sad just how effective McDonald's slander campaign against that poor woman was. McDonalds was 100% in the wrong and owed that woman her medical bills. Instead they slandered and distorted and tried to make themselves somehow the victim. And to this day you'll still hear excrements like this because unlike the woman who had her GENITALS BURNED OFF they had the money to fund a smear campaign against her. 

Edited by Frybert

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59 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

That McDonalds Lawsuit was justified. They overheated the coffee so hot that it burned to the plaintiffs bones if I remember correctly.y 

 

37 minutes ago, Frybert said:

Its extremely sad just how effective McDonald's slander campaign against that poor woman was. McDonalds was 100% in the wrong and owed that woman her medical bills. Instead they slandered and distorted and tried to make themselves somehow the victim. And to this day you'll still hear excrements like this because unlike the woman who had her GENITALS BURNED OFF they had the money to fund a smear campaign against her. 

I've looked into it a bit, and on this specific case, I would concede that the woman did deserve some compensation and that industrial standard needed to change. I apologize for bringing up a case that wasn't as relevant as I thought to the discussion.

 

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Here is a solution to the hole EULA thing: 

just add some language to the EULA that makes it clear that they don't have the right to mine for information. I don't even care that we are conceding the right to it, so long at I willinging give it to them. Is that to much to ask. I intend to buy the expansion via a steam gift card. So this way I don't need to give my info. Same with Xbox. I go it back in 2012 and haven't typed in a credit card yet. Just buy gift cards but this EULA gives them the right to the data. I just want my privacy. Change the EULA so Take Two can Take the info when we submit it but not at any other way. This also gives a last line of defence against hackers. 

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