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Brainlord’s Petition to Change the EULA


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7 minutes ago, Rocket In My Pocket said:

If the CEO of T2 buys a gun, should I be concerned? He has the potential to shoot me now.

If you are gonna go around protesting every EULA based on that logic, it might be easier to just be Amish? Learn to churn butter? The EULA you agreed to for every other digital thing you've ever used or bought is no better or worse.

Obviously he cares and he isn't Amish.

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4 minutes ago, Brainlord Mesomorph said:

That depends. is he asking for PERMISSION to shoot you?

This is the point of the thread people who are protesting this protest. T2 has a gun, it's the Squad KSP1.4. it's an effective model, with a relatively high stopping power. T2 has the gun. We know that. They just asked us our permission to shoot us with it, and if we decline, we cannot access the forums, wiki, or our copy of KSP. This is why I have not updated. I want to play the game and post on the forums and learn about the game on the wiki without the possibility of T2 updating their KSP gun and shooting me. I agreed to the EULA, I was too stupid to read it and I wouldn't have been able to learn about the controversy without my forum account. This sucks, in my opinion. Stop saying that we are trying to hurt T2's sales and stop them from providing content and blah blah blah. We simply want T2 to clarify if they will shoot us or ask them to give up their permission to shoot us.

-Kraken.

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Just now, TheMadKraken2297 said:

This is the point of the thread people who are protesting this protest. T2 has a gun, it's the Squad KSP1.4. it's an effective model, with a relatively high stopping power. T2 has the gun. We know that. They just asked us our permission to shoot us with it, and if we decline, we cannot access the forums, wiki, or our copy of KSP. This is why I have not updated. I want to play the game and post on the forums and learn about the game on the wiki without the possibility of T2 updating their KSP gun and shooting me. I agreed to the EULA, I was too stupid to read it and I wouldn't have been able to learn about the controversy without my forum account. This sucks, in my opinion. Stop saying that we are trying to hurt T2's sales and stop them from providing content and blah blah blah. We simply want T2 to clarify if they will shoot us or ask them to give up their permission to shoot us.

-Kraken.

Don't hold your breath, the smart thing for Take Two to do is just ignore any back lash, and that's exactly what they'll do.

As I've said before; it won't hurt my feelings if you guys get whatever EULA it is you want. I'm not against you.

I'm just pointing out that you're tilting at windmills Don Quixote.

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2 minutes ago, Rocket In My Pocket said:

Don't hold your breath, the smart thing for Take Two to do is just ignore any back lash, and that's exactly what they'll do.

As I've said before; it won't hurt my feelings if you guys get whatever EULA it is you want. I'm not against you.

I'm just pointing out that you're tilting at windmills Don Quixote.

They will ignore  that backlash, we already know they do. (GTA Modding fiasco) and I don't think they'll follow in EA's path in listening to mob mentality. I just feel better thinking something out and presenting a calm argument. For some reason I think debating a point is relaxing. :P

Edited by TheMadKraken2297
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1 minute ago, TheMadKraken2297 said:

They will ignore  that backlash, we already know they do. (GTA Modding fiasco) and I don't think they'll follow in EA's path in listening to mob mentality. I just feel better thinking something out and presenting a calm argument. For some reason I think debating a point is relaxing. :P

Fair enough. I suppose I'm here for the same reason, lol.

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Here, I found I EULA I wrote.

It covers the Company's butt in terms of implied warranty, liability, explains the license models and protects the IP.  It doesn't say anything about about collecting information, because we weren't selling spyware.

Quote

Rocketship Technologies, Inc.

End User License Agreement

IMPORTANT READ CAREFULLY: This End User License Agreement (“Agreement”) is a legal and binding agreement between you (either an individual or a single entity) (“you” or “your”) and Rocketship Technologies, Inc. (“Rocketship Technologies”) for the software product you are about to install and the associated proprietary media, printed materials, any associated documentation (including electronic documentation), and also any updates or modifications of the foregoing provided by Rocketship Technologies or its licensees or agents to you (collectively “Software”). 

WHEN YOU CLICK ON THE “I ACCEPT” BUTTON OR WHEN YOU OTHERWISE INSTALL OR USE ANY PART OF THE SOFTWARE, YOU ARE CONSENTING TO BE BOUND BY AND ARE BECOMING A PARTY TO THIS AGREEMENT. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO (OR CANNOT COMPLY WITH) ALL OF THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT, CLICK THE “I DO NOT ACCEPT” BUTTON, AND YOU WILL NOT BE AUTHORIZED TO USE OR HAVE ANY LICENSE TO USE ANY PART OF THE SOFTWARE. WRITTEN APPROVAL IS NOT A PREREQUISITE TO THE VALIDITY OR ENFORCEABILITY OF THIS AGREEMENT AND NO SOLICITATION OF ANY SUCH WRITTEN APPROVAL BY OR ON BEHALF OF ROCKETSHIP TECHNOLOGIES SHALL BE CONSTRUED AS AN INFERENCE TO THE CONTRARY.  IF THESE TERMS ARE CONSIDERED AN OFFER BY ROCKETSHIP TECHNOLOGIES, YOUR ACCEPTANCE IS EXPRESSLY LIMITED TO THESE TERMS.

Under this Agreement, you are obtaining one of the following three types of licenses:  (1) a “Trial License” which will allow you to use the Software free of charge, for a limited period of time designated by Rocketship Technologies for evaluation purposes only; (2) a “Single-User License” which will allow you to use one copy of the Software for your personal use; or (3) a “Volume License” which is a license granted when you have purchased multiple seats to the Software and which will allow you to use the Software on multiple computers at once.

1.             License. 

(a)           Trial License.  If you are purchasing a Trial License, subject to your compliance with the terms and conditions of this Agreement, Rocketship Technologies hereby grants to you a limited, personal, non-sublicensable, non-transferable, non-exclusive license to:

(i)            use one copy of the Software to evaluate the Software and only for your personal, noncommercial use on a single computer system and only in accordance with the accompanying end user documentation; and

(ii)           make one copy of the Software in machine readable form solely for archival back-up purposes, provided you reproduce Rocketship Technologies’ copyright proprietary legends in any such copy. 

(b)           Single User License.  If you are purchasing a Single-User License, subject to your compliance with the terms and conditions of this Agreement, Rocketship Technologies hereby grants to you a limited, personal, non-sublicensable, non-transferable, non-exclusive license to:

(i)            use one copy of the Software only for your personal, noncommercial use on a single computer system and only in accordance with the accompanying end user documentation; and

(ii)           make one copy of the Software in machine readable form solely for archival back-up purposes, provided you reproduce Rocketship Technologies’ copyright proprietary legends in any such copy. 

(c)            Volume License. If you are purchasing a Volume License from Rocketship Technologies or one of its authorized distributors, subject to your compliance with the terms and conditions of this Agreement, Rocketship Technologies hereby grants to you a limited, personal, non-sublicensable, non-transferable, non-exclusive license to:

(i)            install the object code of the Software on computers owned or controlled by you only for your business purposes, provided that the number of computers that the Software may be installed on shall never exceed the number of seats of the Software you have purchased from Rocketship Technologies or its distributors; and

(ii)           use the Software in accordance with the relevant Rocketship Technologies end user documentation.

2.             License Restrictions.

(a)           General Restrictions.   You shall not (nor shall you permit anyone else to) directly or indirectly: (i) copy (except as expressly set forth above), modify, or distribute the Software or any portion thereof; (ii) reverse engineer, disassemble, decompile or otherwise attempt to discover the source code or structure, sequence and organization of the Software or any portion thereof (except where the foregoing is permitted by applicable local law, and then only to the extent so permitted); (iii) rent, lease, or use the Software or any portion thereof for timesharing or service bureau purposes, or otherwise use or allow the use of the Software or any portion thereof for any commercial purpose or on behalf of any third party; (iv) remove or obscure any proprietary notices on the Software; (v) post or otherwise make available the Software, or any portion thereof, in any form, on the Internet or the World Wide Web; (vi) distribute copies of the Software to others (electronically or otherwise); (vii) use a previous version of the Software after you receive a new version and are asked to discontinue using the previous version; (viii) export or reexport the Software in violation of any laws or regulations; or (ix) make any single copy of the Software available for use by multiple users over any network or from any remote workstation or terminal.  Each single computer on which Software is installed and used shall be primarily available to only a single user.  You are responsible for all fees and costs associated with the copying and installation of the Software. 

(b)           Restrictions limited to Volume License.   If you are purchasing a Volume License:  (i) if the Software is moved from one single computer to another computer owned or controlled by you, you must destroy the copy on the first computer, unless the number of Seats purchased allows for the addition of another copy; and (ii) you may not install the Software on any computer not owned or controlled by you.

3.             Special Third Party Limitations/Requirements/Restrictions/Disclaimers/Liability Limitations with respect to the use of the Software.   The Software contains certain third party materials and technology and the use of the Software is therefore subject to additional limitations, requirements, restrictions, disclaimers and liability limitations regarding said third party materials.

THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED “AS IS” AND ROCKETSHIP TECHNOLOGIES MAKES NO WARRANTIES, EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED, AS TO NON-INFRINGEMENT OF THIRD PARTY RIGHTS, MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  Some states do not allow the exclusion of implied warranties or limitations on how long an implied warranty may last, so the above limitations may not apply to you.

IN NO EVENT WILL ROCKETSHIP TECHNOLOGIES BE LIABLE TO YOU OR ANY THIRD PARTY FOR ANY PUNITIVE, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR INDIRECT DAMAGES, INCLUDING ANY LOST PROFITS, LOST SAVINGS, OR LOSS OF DATA, EVEN IF ROCKETSHIP TECHNOLOGIES HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES, OR FOR ANY CLAIM BY ANY OTHER PARTY.  ROCKETSHIP TECHNOLOGIES’ LIABILITY FOR DAMAGES OF ANY KIND WHATSOEVER ARISING OUT OF THIS AGREEMENT OR THE USE OF THE SOFTWARE SHALL BE LIMITED TO THE PURCHASE PRICE PAID BY YOU FOR THE SOFTWARE, EXCEPT WHERE NOT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, IN WHICH CASE ROCKETSHIP TECHNOLOGIES’ LIABILITY SHALL BE LIMITED TO THE MINIMUM AMOUNT PERMITTED BY SUCH APPLICABLE LAW. Some states do not allow the exclusion or limitation of special, incidental, or consequential damages, so the above limitation or exclusion may not apply to you.

YOU MAY NOT MODIFY, ADAPT, TRANSLATE, RENT, LEASE, LOAN, RESELL FOR PROFIT, DISTRIBUTE, NETWORK OR CREATE DERIVATIVE WORKS BASED UPON THE SOFTWARE OR ANY PART THEREOF.

4.             Proprietary Rights. Rocketship Technologies and its licensors shall own and retain all right, title, and (except as expressly licensed hereunder) interest in and to the Software, all copies or portions thereof, and any derivative works thereof (by whomever created).  The Software is protected by copyright laws and international copyright treaties, as well as other intellectual property laws and treaties.  Notwithstanding anything else, the Software is licensed and not sold.  All rights in the Software not specifically granted in this Agreement are reserved by Rocketship Technologies and its licensors.

5.             Confidentiality.  You agree to maintain the Software and any data or databases contained therein in confidence and that you will not disclose the Software to any third party without the express written consent of Rocketship Technologies.  You may not use the Software except as set forth herein.  You further agree to take all reasonable precautions to preclude access of unauthorized persons to the Software.

6.             Term and Termination.  This license is effective until terminated hereunder; provided, however, that if you are only permitted to use the Software on a trial basis, this license is only effective for the trial period specified by Rocketship Technologies.  you may terminate the license at any time by destroying the Software (including the related documentation) together with all copies or modifications in any form.  Rocketship Technologies will have the right to terminate the license granted herein immediately if you fail to comply with any term or condition of this Agreement. The license granted to you herein will terminate automatically upon any breach of Section 2 or 3. Upon termination of this Agreement for any reason, you shall immediately stop using the Software and shall destroy and remove from all computers, hard drives, networks, and other storage media all copies of the Software.  Sections 2, through 15 shall survive any termination of this Agreement.

7.             Limited Warranty.  Except if you are purchasing a Trial License, for a period of ninety (90) days from the date you purchase the Software (the “Warranty Period”), Rocketship Technologies and its licensors warrant only that the Software will perform substantially in accordance with the specifications stated for the Software in the accompanying written end-user documentation. THIS WARRANTY SHALL NOT APPLY TO ANY SOFTWARE WHICH HAS BEEN ABUSED, MISUSED, DAMAGED IN TRANSPORT, ALTERED, NEGLECTED, OR SUBJECTED TO UNAUTHORIZED REPAIR OR INSTALLATION, AS REASONABLY DETERMINED BY ROCKETSHIP TECHNOLOGIES.  THE FOREGOING LIMITED WARRANTY SHALL NOT APPLY IF YOU ARE PURCHASING A TRIAL LICENSE.

                NOTWITHSTANDING ANYTHING ELSE HEREIN, THE ENTIRE LIABILITY OF ROCKETSHIP TECHNOLOGIES AND ITS LICENSORS, AND YOUR EXCLUSIVE REMEDY FOR A BREACH OF THE FORGOING WARRANTY, SHALL BE, AT ROCKETSHIP TECHNOLOGIES’ OPTION AND EXPENSE: (A) REPAIR OR REPLACEMENT OF THE SOFTWARE FOR SOFTWARE THAT MEETS THE WARRANTY OR (B) A REFUND OF THE PURCHASE PRICE PAID BY YOU FOR THE SOFTWARE.

8.             Warranty Disclaimer. THE LIMITED WARRANTY SET FORTH IN SECTION 7 IS THE ONLY WARRANTY PROVIDED BY ROCKETSHIP TECHNOLOGIES AND DOES NOT APPLY IF YOU ARE PURCHASING A TRIAL LICENSE.  EXCEPT FOR THE FOREGOING, THE SOFTWARE AND ANY SERVICES ARE PROVIDED “AS IS” AND ROCKETSHIP TECHNOLOGIES MAKES NO WARRANTY OF ANY KIND WITH REGARD TO THE SOFTWARE OR ANY SERVICES PROVIDED BY ROCKETSHIP TECHNOLOGIES HEREUNDER.  ROCKETSHIP TECHNOLOGIES EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS ANY OTHER WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION, ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE OR NONINFRINGEMENT. 

FURTHER, ROCKETSHIP TECHNOLOGIES DOES NOT WARRANT RESULTS OF USE OR THAT THE SOFTWARE IS BUG FREE OR THAT ITS USE WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED. ROCKETSHIP TECHNOLOGIES AND ITS LICENSORS DO NOT AND CANNOT WARRANT THE RESULTS YOU MAY OBTAIN BY USING THE SOFTWARE. THIS DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY CONSTITUTES AN ESSENTIAL PART OF THIS AGREEMENT. Some states do not allow the exclusion of implied warranties or limitations on how long an implied warranty may last, so the above limitations may not apply to you.  This warranty gives you specific legal rights and you may also have other rights which vary from state to state.             

9.             Limitation of Liability. NOTWITHSTANDING ANYTHING ELSE HEREIN, UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES AND UNDER NO LEGAL THEORY, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, TORT, CONTRACT, NEGLIGENCE, STRICT LIABILITY, OR OTHERWISE, SHALL ROCKETSHIP TECHNOLOGIES OR ITS LICENSORS BE LIABLE TO YOU OR ANY OTHER PERSON (I) FOR ANY PUNITIVE, INDIRECT, SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES OF ANY CHARACTER INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, DAMAGES FOR LOST PROFITS, LOSS OF GOODWILL, WORK STOPPAGE, ACCURACY OF RESULTS, COMPUTER FAILURE OR MALFUNCTION, OR DAMAGES RESULTING FROM YOUR USE OF THE SOFTWARE OR THE SERVICES PROVIDED BY ROCKETSHIP TECHNOLOGIES, OR (II) FOR ANY MATTER BEYOND ROCKETSHIP TECHNOLOGIES’ OR ITS LICENSOR’S REASONABLE CONTROL. ROCKETSHIP TECHNOLOGIES’ AND ITS LICENSOR’S MAXIMUM LIABILITY FOR DAMAGES OF ANY KIND WHATSOEVER ARISING OUT OF THIS AGREEMENT SHALL BE LIMITED TO (I) THE PURCHASE PRICE PAID BY YOU FOR THE SOFTWARE OR (II) IF YOU RECEIVED THE SOFTWARE FREE OF CHARGE ON A TRIAL BASIS, FIFTY DOLLARS ($50.00), EXCEPT WHERE NOT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, IN WHICH CASE ROCKETSHIP TECHNOLOGIES’ LIABILITY SHALL BE LIMITED TO THE MINIMUM AMOUNT PERMITTED BY SUCH APPLICABLE LAW. THE FOREGOING LIMITATIONS SHALL APPLY EVEN IF ROCKETSHIP TECHNOLOGIES HAS BEEN INFORMED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. Some states do not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages, so the above limitation and exclusion may not apply to you.

10.           Export. You shall comply with all export laws and restrictions and regulations of the Department of Commerce, the United States Department of Treasury Office of Foreign Assets Control ("OFAC"), or other United States or foreign agency or authority, and you shall not export, or allow the export or re-export of the Software in violation of any such restrictions, laws or regulations. By using the Software, you agree to the foregoing and represent and warrant that you are not located in, under the control of, or a national or resident of any restricted country.

11.           Indemnity. You agree that Rocketship Technologies shall have no liability whatsoever for any use you make of the Software. You shall indemnify and hold harmless Rocketship Technologies from any third party claims, damages, liabilities, costs and fees (including reasonable attorney fees) arising from your use of the Software as well as from your failure to comply with any term of this Agreement.

12.           Government Restricted Rights.   If you are an agency, department, or other entity of the United States Government ("Government"), the use, duplication, reproduction, release, modification, disclosure or transfer of the Software, or any related documentation of any kind, including technical data or related manuals, is restricted in accordance with Federal Acquisition Regulation 12.212 for civilian agencies and Defense Federal Acquisition Regulation Supplement 227.7202 for military agencies. This Software is commercial computer software and the related documentation is commercial computer software documentation. The use of the Software and related documentation is further restricted in accordance with the terms of this Agreement, or any modification hereto.

13.           WARNING:  IF YOU ARE PURCHASING A TRIAL LICENSE, THE SOFTWARE CONTAINS A ROUTINE THAT WILL CAUSE THE SOFTWARE TO CEASE PROPER FUNCTIONING AFTER A CERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME. THIS MAY OCCUR BEFORE OR AFTER EXPIRATION OR TERMINATION OF THE LICENSE, SO YOU MUST BE PREPARED FOR SUCH EVENT AT ALL TIMES AND MAY NOT RELY ON THE SOFTWARE.

14.           Volume License Installation Process and Support Terms.  This Section 14 only applies to you if you are purchasing a Volume License. 

a.             Irrespective of the number of seats you have purchased, you should receive at least one object code copy of the Software, and a “multiple user installation license key” in order to install the Software on the number of computers for which you have purchased seats.

b.             Support in connection with your purchase of a Volume License shall be provided in accordance with Rocketship Technologies’ then-standard support terms and conditions for volume license purchasers effective in the territory in which you use the Software.

c.             If you receive any separate volume license agreements from Rocketship Technologies, any additional terms in such agreements will apply to you and any terms of this Agreement that conflict with such separate agreements shall not apply to you. 

15.           General. This Agreement and the terms of any Volume License Agreement provided to you (if any) represent the complete agreement concerning this license between the parties and supersedes all prior agreements and representations between them. This Agreement may be amended only by a writing executed by both parties. If any provision of this Agreement is held to be illegal or unenforceable, that provision shall be limited or eliminated to the minimum extent necessary to make it legal and enforceable and this Agreement shall otherwise remain in full force and effect and enforceable. The failure of Rocketship Technologies to act with respect to a breach of this Agreement by you or others does not constitute a waiver and shall not limit Rocketship Technologies’ rights with respect to such breach or any subsequent breaches. This Agreement is personal to you and may not be assigned or transferred for any reason whatsoever without Rocketship Technologies’ prior written consent and any action or conduct in violation of the foregoing shall be void and without effect. Rocketship Technologies expressly reserves the right to assign this Agreement and to delegate any of its obligations hereunder. This Agreement shall be governed by and construed under Florida law (without regard to its conflicts of laws provisions) as such law applies to agreements between Florida residents entered into and to be performed within Florida. The sole and exclusive jurisdiction and venue for actions arising under this Agreement shall be the State and Federal courts in Palm Beach County, Florida; you hereby agree to service of process in accordance with the rules of such courts. The party prevailing in any dispute under this Agreement shall be entitled to its costs and legal fees.

Each party recognizes and agrees that the warranty disclaimers and liability and remedy limitations in this Agreement are material bargained for bases of this Agreement and that they have been taken into account and reflected in determining the consideration to be given by each party under this Agreement and in the decision by each party to enter into this Agreement.

Questions concerning this Agreement should be sent to the address set forth below. Any notices or correspondences will only be effective if sent to such address.

Rocketship Technologies, Inc. 
P.O. Box 2449
Palm Beach FL USA 33480.

 

Somebody asked if it was approved by a lawyer, of course it was, the same one who told me I could get a job writing tort.

Edited by Brainlord Mesomorph
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Wanna see how to start a flamewar and totally detail the thread at hand? 

KSP is spyware. The NRA brainwashed y'all and they're gonna steal your children. THE RAPTURE IS HERE! REPENT

Add 2 teaspoons of salt and let boil for 3 days.

4 minutes ago, Brainlord Mesomorph said:

 

It covers the Company's butt in terms of implied warranty, liability, explains the license models and protects the IP.  It doesn't say anything about about collecting information, because we weren't selling spyware.

 

Ninja'd... You already started the flamewar with that spyware thing.

Edited by TheMadKraken2297
Why do you ask me my motive for improving my posts?!
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18 minutes ago, Rocket In My Pocket said:

So...a year from now when the EULA hasn't changed one bit, and nothing sinister has happened with KSP, can I tell you guys I told you so?

I mean, I'm gonna either way; I just want to make sure you'll be cool about it.

I won't be here.

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1 hour ago, Brainlord Mesomorph said:

Thank you.

That's the point.

On the contrary, it would be naive to give someone permission to do something bad to you,  based solely on the assumption that they won't take you up on it.

tac·it 
  1. understood or implied without being stated.

Maybe by you, but not by me.  I understand that it's a standard EULA, used by the company for most if not all of their games.  As such, it needs to cover all cases, WHETHER OR NOT THE SOFTWARE ACTUALLY DOES IT OR IS INTENDED TO DO SO.

So, let me present a case:

  1. Microsoft releases an update for Windows which breaks about 5% of all KSP installs
  2. Squad is unable to easily replicate or debug  this, so they release an update with a partial fix and some  data gathering to return debugging data to Squad to help in the final resolution of the problem
  3. Squad finally fixes the problem and releases yet another update.

This EULA covers these cases, so that when people install the updates, they don't get more EULAs to respond to, don't get confused, etc.

If they were to totally remove the sentences in question, then every time they release an update, people would have to respond to the new EULA for every update.

Since most people use Steam, their games can get updated automatically, making a smoother user experience.  Otherwise, it can be a real pain

Oh, and thank you for posting your EULA, I'll be reading it later.  I assume it was for a game?

Edited by linuxgurugamer
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40 minutes ago, Rocket In My Pocket said:

If the CEO of T2 buys a gun, should I be concerned? He has the potential to shoot me now.

If you are gonna go around protesting every EULA based on that logic, it might be easier to just be Amish? Learn to churn butter? The EULA you agreed to for every other digital thing you've ever used or bought is no better or worse.

You're overly flippant and drawing parallels to things which have no bearing. This has me not taking you seriously.

The dressed insults and poking aside, there is an issue here for some people and your dismissing it and them does nothing but inflame the situation.

 

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5 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Maybe by you, but not by me.  I understand that it's a standard EULA, used by the company for most if not all of their games.  As such, it needs to cover all cases, WHETHER OR NOT THE SOFTWARE ACTUALLY DOES IT OR IS INTENDED TO DO SO.

As I said in the OP:

Would you sign an agreement with your gardener that gave him access to your bank account, because in his other job, he’s an accountant? And he just uses the same contract for everybody? (“Oh, that part doesn’t apply to you, just sign here, and also I’ll need your account number.”)

I don’t think so.

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1 minute ago, Brainlord Mesomorph said:

As I said in the OP:

Would you sign an agreement with your gardener that gave him access to your bank account, because in his other job, he’s an accountant? And he just uses the same contract for everybody? (“Oh, that part doesn’t apply to you, just sign here, and also I’ll need your account number.”)

I don’t think so.

And you conveniently ignored the second part of my post, the one which actually asked you a question

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34 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Oh, and thank you for posting your EULA, I'll be reading it later.  I assume it was for a game?

This question?

No not a game. A DB app for 3D animators.

... and 40 users on the petition 

 

EDIT: But you didn't answer my question: Does the gardener get access to your bank account? 

Edited by Brainlord Mesomorph
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1 hour ago, Brainlord Mesomorph said:

This question?

No not a game. A DB app for 3D animators.

... and 40 users on the petition 

 

EDIT: But you didn't answer my question: Does the gardener get access to your bank account? 

So a DB app for 3D animators is a little different than a consumer game release.  Which would require a more complicated EULA because of all the things that people tend to do.

And no, I don't even have a gardener :D

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2 hours ago, The Dunatian said:

KSP has adware.

Really?  Where?  

I am not aware of any ads in KSP.  Please show a screenshot of adware in KSP, I am very interested in seeing this

[snip]

Edited by Vanamonde
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17 hours ago, Kerbart said:

Any butcher can hold a knife. And yet. I'd rather have a certified surgeon cut me open to remove an infected appendix than the local meat cleaver "who has plenty experience with cutting meat it." Would you let the gas pipes in your house be fixed by your brother-in-law who has watched "three or four youtube videos, it's really not that hard" or do you play safe and use an licensed & bonded plumber?

It works the same with law. Yes, it would be nice if it were readable as plain English. But the words do not always have the same meaning, and punctuation matters. An experienced eye can spot deficiencies where you don't, and won't get alarmed where you will. So yes, I'll be more likely to take the word from "someone who studied for it" than from a good willing but untrained layman whose approach is "how hard can it be."

I agree completely.  However, you don't have to be a professional movie critic to know that the Holiday Special is worse that the Empire Strikes Back. 

Overall, I think whether or not anything in the EULA means something undesirable... nothing will happen.  After a few months, when nothing has changed, the forums will settle down.

KBDlq2p.png 

@KasperVld

Oh,he's gone :(

 

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I look at all EULAs pragmatically. I ignore them unless/until the EULA owner does something stupid. I must have accepted thousands of EULAs over the years, I don't know what any of them say. They could say I'm giving up the right to exist on Earth and I wouldn't know it.

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2 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

So a DB app for 3D animators is a little different than a consumer game release.  Which would require a more complicated EULA because of all the things that people tend to do.

What do you mean "all the things people tend  to do?"

Please be specific.

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1 hour ago, Brainlord Mesomorph said:

No that's BS.

Answer the question.

Sure.

I don't give my gardener my bank account info, but I do give him my CC info if/when needed

52 minutes ago, Brainlord Mesomorph said:

What do you mean "all the things people tend  to do?"

Please be specific.

How can I be specific when people (aka pirates, thieves, people who don't care about others, etc) are so inventive?  

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6 hours ago, Brainlord Mesomorph said:

EDIT: But you didn't answer my question: Does the gardener get access to your bank account? 

He doesn't (not that he exists), and I find it unlikely that Take Two gets access to your bank account from the EULA.

Once again, you are not a lawyer. Winning a case pro se does not make you a lawyer, reading EULAs doesn't make you a lawyer, only intensive study of the law, judicial precedent, and all the other things that can affect interpretation of the law does.

 

Without knowing the details of the case you won, I can surmise a few possibilities:

1) It was such an open-and-shut case that even pro se representation was sufficient to carry the day.

2) You were lucky and got an agreeable judge and/or jury, or possibly the opponents' lawyers were really bad. Bad lawyers do exist.

3) You put in a lot of study into an area of law with very few gotchas that only lawyers would be likely to know.

 

Who knows, maybe you're the best armchair lawyer in the world. Until I see any evidence of that, though, I'm going to chalk this up to a hefty case of the Dunning-Kruger effect, propped up by an n=1 anecdote about winning a case and a bunch of contracts that likely were never challenged in court.

I've by now read a fair bit about rocket science and engineering. Does that make me a rocket scientist? Absolutely not. There are endless details to it that only get taught with dedicated training. In my own field, I see new researchers struggle to try to figure something out that I can crack in seconds flat.

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1 hour ago, Starman4308 said:

He doesn't (not that he exists), and I find it unlikely that Take Two gets access to your bank account from the EULA.

Once again, you are not a lawyer. Winning a case pro se does not make you a lawyer, reading EULAs doesn't make you a lawyer, only intensive study of the law, judicial precedent, and all the other things that can affect interpretation of the law does.

 

Without knowing the details of the case you won, I can surmise a few possibilities:

1) It was such an open-and-shut case that even pro se representation was sufficient to carry the day.

2) You were lucky and got an agreeable judge and/or jury, or possibly the opponents' lawyers were really bad. Bad lawyers do exist.

3) You put in a lot of study into an area of law with very few gotchas that only lawyers would be likely to know.

 

Who knows, maybe you're the best armchair lawyer in the world. Until I see any evidence of that, though, I'm going to chalk this up to a hefty case of the Dunning-Kruger effect, propped up by an n=1 anecdote about winning a case and a bunch of contracts that likely were never challenged in court.

I've by now read a fair bit about rocket science and engineering. Does that make me a rocket scientist? Absolutely not. There are endless details to it that only get taught with dedicated training. In my own field, I see new researchers struggle to try to figure something out that I can crack in seconds flat.

And do you need to under stand "legalese" too :). Listen if you need to be a lawyer to read the EULA then it isn't a good Eula. It's like this analogy. A company sells you a car and put a 75% down payment. Then the next month they come to your door and say: Sign this contract, you might need to consult a lawyer. They hand you a 20 page contract in "legalese" you say let me consult a lawyer, they say ok but we won't leave your door until you sign it or we want your car back. You consult a lawyer and it reveals they can take all of your info you placed into your car which has a built in laptop that you already used. So now what you, you ask to get your money back right. Oh well in your orginal contract they won't issue a refund unless required by law. Also you technically used said car for a month. So now what what would you do... 

Edited by Cheif Operations Director
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