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Brainlord’s Petition to Change the EULA

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2 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

I don't give my gardener my bank account info, but I do give him my CC info if/when needed

Precisely.  Even though his other job is being a accountant,  you'll still need a contract that is specific to his RELATIONSHIP with you.

One contract wouldn't be good enough.


2 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

How can I be specific when people (aka pirates, thieves, people who don't care about others, etc) are so inventive?  

Ah, so you mean modding, stealing, violations of IP, etc. Right?

Well all that happens WAY MORE in the 3D art world than in gaming.  We're dealing with apps costing hundreds, even thousands of dollars and users who have no money at all, but endless time to hack them. And cheap things like content (3d models, people, sets props)  the pass that stuff around like water. I know. I sold software to them. MY EULA is quite specific in addressing those things. My  $60 app had online registration and phoned home every time you launched it. And they still hacked it.

Games are actually far LESS complex, both programming and in licensing. (they just have to be fun) While KSP is complex in its way, it is also a simple computer program. Its a single process, operates in a box, no internet access. So, KSP does NOT require "a more complicated EULA" at all.  MUCH LESS ONE THAT SPECIFIES ACCESS TO PERSONAL INFORMATION.

So to reiterate:

The "one contact for everything and everyone"  BS  is a lousy excuse!  it just doesn't hold water. 

1 hour ago, Starman4308 said:

He doesn't ..(snip) ... flat. 

Absolutely none of that is on topic ..


Edited by Brainlord Mesomorph
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10 minutes ago, Brainlord Mesomorph said:

The "one contact for everything and everyone"  BS  is a lousy excuse!  it just doesn't hold water. 

1 hour ago, Starman4308 said:

Your opinion, and I can't really say it's wrong.

Regarding this thread, I think we've beaten it to death, so unless someone replies to one of my postings in a manner which would require me to respond, I'm pretty much finished here.

We both have our opinions, and obviously are not going to change the other's mind.

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These are the lines of concern. 



"The Company may also share your personal information with third parties as described in this Privacy Policy. The Company may share your personal information to fulfill a request you have made, such as signing up for an email list or requesting customer support. In the event we offer services or promotions where your personal information is separately collected and used according to the privacy policy of a third party, we will inform you of that at the time of collection and you may elect not to participate in the service or promotion. In addition, we may share aggregate and other information regarding Online Service usage statistics and user demographics with third parties.

We may share your personal and other information with third parties in connection with an investigation of fraud, intellectual property infringements, or other activity that is illegal or may expose you or us to legal liability, including as required by law enforcement or other government officials. We also may share your personal and other information with third parties when we have reason to believe that a disclosure is necessary to address potential or actual injury or interference with our rights, property, operations, users, or others who may be harmed or may suffer loss or damage, or when we believe that disclosure is necessary to protect our rights, investigate, or enforce our policies, terms and conditions, combat fraud and/or comply with a judicial proceeding, court order, or legal process served on the Company. In addition, your personal and other information may be disclosed to a potential or actual successor or assign in connection with a proposed or consummated merger, acquisition, reorganization, bankruptcy, or other similar event involving all or a portion of the Company, the Company's customer information may be transferred to our successor or assign. "



"To protect your personal information, the Company follows generally accepted industry standards and maintains reasonable safeguards to attempt to ensure the security, integrity, and privacy of the information you have provided. The Company has security measures in place designed to protect against the loss, misuse, and alteration of the information under our control. Personal information collected by the Company is stored in secure operating environments that are not available to the public (e.g., locked rooms). To prevent unauthorized electronic access to personal information, the Company maintains information collected online behind a firewall-protected server and uses SSL encryption for purchases made through our online store. However, no system can be 100% secure and human errors occur, so there is the possibility that there could be unauthorized access to your information. By using our services, you assume this risk."



"Your refusal to submit personal information may limit your ability to participate in some activities, such as sweepstakes or the use of certain Online Services. However, as described above, regardless of registration we may nonetheless publish gameplay boards and multiplayer match records that contain certain information as a result of your use of the products, such as your online ID, where they are essential components of the services we offer you and other users."


From the EULA

"By installing and using the Software, you consent to the information collection and usage terms set forth in this section and Licensor's Privacy Policy, including (where applicable) (i) the transfer of any personal information and other information to Licensor, its affiliates, vendors, and business partners, and to certain other third parties, such as governmental authorities, in the U.S. and other countries located outside Europe or your home country, including countries that may have lower standards of privacy protection; (ii) the public display of your data, such as identification of your user-created content or displaying your scores, ranking, achievements, and other gameplay data on websites and other platforms; (iii) the sharing of your gameplay data with hardware manufacturers, platform hosts, and Licensor's marketing partners; and (iv) other uses and disclosures of your personal information or other information as specified in the above-referenced Privacy Policy, as amended from time to time. If you do not want your information used or shared in this manner, then you should not use the Software. "

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From the Privacy Policy

"The types of information collected in connection with the activities listed above will vary depending on the activity. The information we collect may include personal information such as your first and/or last name, e-mail address, phone number, photo, mailing address, geolocation, or payment information. In addition, we may collect your age, gender, date of birth, zip code, hardware configuration, console ID, software products played, survey data, purchases, IP address and the systems you have played on. We may combine the information with your personal information and across other computers or devices that you may use. Prize winners may be required to provide additional information for prize fulfillment.

If you use, purchase, or register for an Online Service through a third-party service such as a gaming console's network service, an internet based gaming service, or a social network website, or request that we associate a Company account with a third-party service account, then limited user account personal information may be transferred to the Company as part of the registration process and we may be able to collect information about your use of the Online Services. For example, if you purchase virtual currency through a gaming console service, that gaming console service will provide us with information to effectuate the transaction, including the amount of virtual currency purchased and a means to identify your Online Service account.

When you use an application on a Social Networking Site ("SNS"), you allow us to access certain information from your profile from that SNS. The information you allow us to access is affected by the privacy settings you establish at the SNS. For example, our Facebook applications may access and store some or all of the following information, as allowed by you, the SNS and your preferences: your "basic information" you have shared with everyone on the SNS; your profile picture or its URL; your friends list, your user ID number, which is linked to publicly available information such as name and profile photo; or other information indicated as part of the "Request for Permission" prompt from the SNS. Your agreement to share this information takes place when you "accept" (or similar terms) one of our applications on an SNS. Once your information is received from an SNS, that information is stored and used by us in accordance with this Privacy Policy. The Company is not responsible for the terms, policies, disclosures or actions of any SNS.

When you use Facebook Connect, OpenID or another multisite ID to log in to an Online Service, those ID services will authenticate your identity and provide you the option to share certain personal information with us to pre-populate our sign up form. Depending on your account settings, multisite IDs may also provide other information to us. Please check the terms of those services before using them to log into an Online Service. When you play certain software products published by the Company, information about your gameplay may be collected and transmitted to the Company through network services or any other internet connection method used by the hardware on which you play such games (collectively and individually your "Internet Connection"). See "What Gameplay Information Does the Company Collect?" below for further details. "

Alpha 360 likes this

This is no way anyone could have read what I said and then voted that quickley. PLEASE READ WHAT I SAID

Edited by Cheif Operations Director
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Thanks for waiting.


Some posts have been put here, we dont need new threads constantly to talk about the EULA. Please try to keep discussions consolidated.

For transparency's sake, I also had to revert the title of this thread because I accidentally changed it to a different thread. Should be back to normal and how OP had it. Thanks for your patience.

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-Realistically using your "photo" probably just means your screenshots folder. Which makes sense, since they could use people's screenshots for publicity or to figure out what people are most interested in doing in the game.

-Geolocation is a bit wierd, but given how much T2 has been focused on localization, i can see why they would want to know what countries their users live in to see what languages to add next. If they start figuring out our addresses though, then there's a problem.

-I'm counting the days until someone just makes a mod that stops the "spyware" part of the game from running. I'd give it a month. This community seems pretty good at figuring things out on their own :wink:

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I think starting a watchdog is good this way we can get the DLC and the Watchdog can give weekly updates to ensure that no confidential information is being taken. This was SQUAD, Take-Two and the players all get what they want. My only concern is that Take Two will delete the watchdog I they want to take information and put the forums "up for maintience"

Anyone against a watchdog.

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1 hour ago, quasarrgames said:

Geolocation is a bit wierd

Coarse geolocation is derived from your IP address, and this is done by hundreds of thousands of websites already. Unity sends your IP, and the website gets it whenever you visit. Shock and horror, Take Two gets your IP address and coarse location every time you visit this forum.

1 hour ago, quasarrgames said:

I'm counting the days until someone just makes a mod that stops the "spyware" part of the game from running.

If by"spyware", you mean the standard, well documented Unity analytics that is in pretty much every game using this engine, then the "mod" you want is a system firewall or your hosts file.
If you are claiming there is something more than the  aforementioned analytics going on, provide your evidence before spreading misinformation.

1 hour ago, quasarrgames said:

I'd give it a month.

I'd give it never, as anyone canny enough to code such a thing is also capable of confirming that a) there is nothing worth blocking, and b) a mod can't do anything about Unity sending data anyway.

Honestly, I'm getting pretty irritated by the baseless accusations of spying and pseudo-technical scaremongering going on over this.


Enough already.The "spyware" horse is dead until proven otherwise.


42 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

My only concern is that Take Two will delete the watchdog

So watch it yourself, it's your PC.

Edited by steve_v
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Seems like a reputation grab to me.

Side note, why all the fuss? It doesnt matter. You'd find a lot of your personal information is stored on the internet. Your IP is globally visible. How do you think personalised ads work? And mods were always at the mercy of Squad, they just took the liberty of asking before merging it into the game.

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On 13/03/2018 at 1:13 AM, TheMadKraken2297 said:

If you don't like out arguments, you don't have to argue back. Mabye we want to believe what we want to believe. If we think it means this but you think it means that, WHATEVER! If you don't want to sign/ like the petition than just get out of the discussion.

I've been reading through this thread and "promised" myself that I wouldn't comment, however I had to when I read what you've said here.

What you've fundementally said is that if you don't agree with the OP, then don't post anything. That's the kind of ridiculous and to be frank, rude and unconstructive statement that I've come to expect on things like conspiracy theory forums. In fact the "Mabye we want to believe what we want to believe" reinforces that.

This is a forum in which civil discourse is exepcted and open to all opinion, not just one side of an argument.

Please don't turn it into something else.

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3 hours ago, purpleivan said:

however I had to when I read what you've said here.

I didn't see this until you quoted it, and now I cannot unsee it.
Wow. What's next, flat earth conspiracies? My vocabulary (and the profanity filter) is insufficient to express the absurdity of this comment. :confused:
Then again, certain people around here appear determined to make the whole "new EULA" situation as absurd and combative as possible, for reasons I cannot fathom.

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7 minutes ago, Brainlord Mesomorph said:

more than they care about their personal privacy

Oh but I do care. I simply took the obvious technical steps to protect it, rather than liquiding into the wind trying to change the EULA.

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6 minutes ago, Brainlord Mesomorph said:

Everyone who is still here has clearly decided that want to play a game more than they care about their personal privacy.

I thought KSP players were smarter than that.

Lol..yet apparently you don't think we're too smart for reverse psychology?

So I take it from your statement that you are done playing KSP unless the EULA changes? 

How about you show us the truth and the strength of your conviction by actually leaving? I might actually have some sort of respect for you then.

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I don't think Kerbal Space Program is spyware or that Take-Two would risk implementing it in the future. I am however deeply concerned that the new EULA seems to give them the right to do so.

I think it's sad that trying to bring this to the attention of the users and organising a protest to change the EULA to something better is met with such vitriol. The new EULA is a problem for many users, and a lot of players say they would have to give up playing a game they love because of the unacceptable new EULA. The discontent is apparent, not only on the KSP forum but also on the GOG.COM forum.
I think it is regrettable that the things you would have to agree with to be able to continue to use the software you purchased seem to imply that they may collect a lot of personal data. Without a way to effortlessly opt out or review the data being sent.

Because I was curious, I fired up a couple of different versions of KSP and checked how they differed using Little Snitch 4.0.5 on macOS. 

KSP 1.4.1 sends data to api.redshell.io, cdp.cloud.unity3d.com and config.uca.cloud.unity3d.com. The data KSP sends is probably entirely benign and not cause for concern. But I don't like it when a program decides to transmit information without informing me. Especially when said software forces you to agree to the collection of all kinds of personal information.

KSP 1.3.1 does not, as far as I can tell, try to send any information at all.

Then I tried KSP 1.2.2 because I play a lot with the RO suit of mods. When you start it up for the first time you get the KSP Stats Tracking dialogue, and I assumed that de-selecting the "Send anonymous game progress data", and selecting "Don't send my IP address" would make KSP not send anything. But I was unable to find a combination of options that made KSP not try to make a connection with kerbalspaceprogram.com. This behaviour was disappointing because I had assumed that not sending anonymous game data would mean not sending anything. Perhaps my grasp of the English language is not sufficient to understand the nuances in this dialogue, and they mean "we will collect your game data, do you wish for that data to be sent anonymously or not?". Perhaps this was a bug. I kinda hope so, because I read that stats tracking dialogue as "please send some anonymous game data to help us", not "do you wish your data to be anonymous or not when we collect it".

Album a/7xJB9 will appear when post is submitted

On a lighter note, this whole debate reminded me of episode 1 season 15 of Southpark called HUMANCENTiPAD. @Brainlord Mesomorph did what Kyle was unable to do; he read the EULA before signing it... :rolleyes:

Edited by MaltYebisu
imgur album (still) not showing...
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I wonder if the streamers realize in the EULA that TakeTwo is also claiming ownership of all content and income generated by the use of the product? But people like RPCG just say "Its boilerplate..." "Nothing to see here...".

We'll see how 'boilerplate' it is when TakeTwo sends him a 'pay-up or cease and desist' letter.

Edited by softweir
Name-calling removed.
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