Snark

[1.6.x] MissingHistory v1.7.2: Handy parts to complement Making History.

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So, I just started a test playthrough in Normal Career with PBC 2.0 and a few other mods.  Since my first orbital rocket is basically an OKTO with a heat shield and chute, have you considered moving the 0.625m rocket parts earlier, and the 1.25m ones a bit later? This seems like a rather odd upper stage. A Spark would be more suitable.B4hQTdT.png

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57 minutes ago, lordcirth said:

So, I just started a test playthrough in Normal Career with PBC 2.0 and a few other mods.  Since my first orbital rocket is basically an OKTO with a heat shield and chute, have you considered moving the 0.625m rocket parts earlier, and the 1.25m ones a bit later? This seems like a rather odd upper stage. A Spark would be more suitable.B4hQTdT.png

Don't you have the structural cone that's .625 at the top and 1.25 at the bottom? 

I agree that many parts are oddly organized in the stock tech tree, but I think this time there's an easy fix without modding.

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1 hour ago, Tyko said:

Don't you have the structural cone that's .625 at the top and 1.25 at the bottom? 

I agree that many parts are oddly organized in the stock tech tree, but I think this time there's an easy fix without modding.

That part is a bit further down, but that's not the point. The point is that the Terrier is at least 5 times too heavy and powerful for the obvious first-orbit payload. The 1.25m parts are first in stock because the mk1-pod is the starting payload; but as that's not the case, why should we start with medium-sized rockets?

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On 10/19/2018 at 2:37 PM, Snark said:

Hi all,

I'm very pleased to announce the release of MissingHistory v1.4.1, which restores the 1.25m engine plate to its former glory.  :D

Minor thing, but the "broken in 1.5, do not use" warning in the part description is still there

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1 hour ago, lordcirth said:

That part is a bit further down, but that's not the point. The point is that the Terrier is at least 5 times too heavy and powerful for the obvious first-orbit payload. The 1.25m parts are first in stock because the mk1-pod is the starting payload; but as that's not the case, why should we start with medium-sized rockets?

Um, please forgive me if I'm being dense, but what the dickens does any of this have to do with MissingHistory? "PBC"? I'm guessing that's some mod I've never heard of, but if you've got PBC suggestions, shouldn't you be posting them in the PBC thread?

Did you accidentally post in the wrong thread, or are there some dots I'm failing to connect, here?

5 minutes ago, rwilkinson said:

Minor thing, but the "broken in 1.5, do not use" warning in the part description is still there

Whoops, really? Oh dear. Thanks for the heads up, I'll have a look!

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1 hour ago, lordcirth said:

That part is a bit further down, but that's not the point. The point is that the Terrier is at least 5 times too heavy and powerful for the obvious first-orbit payload. The 1.25m parts are first in stock because the mk1-pod is the starting payload; but as that's not the case, why should we start with medium-sized rockets?

Are you sure you're in the right thread:P

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On 1/9/2019 at 10:04 PM, MaverickSawyer said:

Okay, I'll look into what's involved in making such a patch.

Turns out, Nertea has it covered if you get Kerbal Atomics. Swtiches it to LH2 only, but I'm sure I could kludge together a modified MM patch that'd allow dual mode...

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8 hours ago, Snark said:

Um, please forgive me if I'm being dense, but what the dickens does any of this have to do with MissingHistory? "PBC"? I'm guessing that's some mod I've never heard of, but if you've got PBC suggestions, shouldn't you be posting them in the PBC thread?

Did you accidentally post in the wrong thread, or are there some dots I'm failing to connect, here?

No, you're right, I meant to post in the Probes Before Crew thread.  Sorry!

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@Snark Been really loving the mods you're creating. Thanks!

Question about this one...I noticed you converted several of the structural adapters into fuel tanks. You left their weight alone so if there was no fuel they were back to their adapter weights, so in a way I can still use them as adapters. The problem is they are still empty fuel tanks which means that if I want just a structural adapter I get a fuel tank whether I want one or not. 

This isn't ideal though. If I'm refueling the vehicle I can pump fuel into it magically turning my structural piece into a fuel tank after launch which breaks immersion a bit - this is much the same issue you prevented in SimpleFuelSwitch by not letting users reconfigure a part after launch.

Just a suggestion, but if you used +Part and created a new part based on the same model you could accomplish your goal of adding fueled adapters without removing the standard structural adapters. You could also then up the dry mass a bit to reflect the extra components/plumbing needed for a fuel tank.

Thanks again for all the work  :) 

Edited by Tyko
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3 hours ago, Tyko said:

I noticed you converted several of the structural adapters into fuel tanks.

If by "several" you mean exactly one, then yes, that's correct. ;)

3 hours ago, Tyko said:

You left their weight alone so if there was no fuel they were back to their adapter weights, so in a way I can still use them as adapters. The problem is they are still empty fuel tanks which means that if I want just a structural adapter I get a fuel tank whether I want one or not.

Sure, but you can just empty it of fuel and then it's physically exactly the same as if I hadn't touched it.  So, if you just want a structural adapter, there you go.

3 hours ago, Tyko said:

This isn't ideal though. If I'm refueling the vehicle I can pump fuel into it magically turning my structural piece into a fuel tank after launch which breaks immersion a bit - this is much the same issue you prevented in SimpleFuelSwitch by not letting users reconfigure a part after launch.

Shrug.  Yes, "don't reconfigure after launch" because "things are set up the way they are in the factory, before building the ship."  So, this part ain't a structural adapter anymore.  It's a fuel tank.  If you don't want to put fuel in it, then don't put fuel in it, and it acts exactly the same as before, so where's the harm?

Note that there's precedent for this.  The stock 2.5m-to-3.75m adapter didn't have fuel in it... until Squad came along and recently turned it into a fuel-bearing part.  Frankly, if it's okay for Squad to do that, then I have absolutely zero qualms doing the same thing, especially since that's how I want the part to act.

And, if someone (for reasons that are unfathomable to me, but hey, it takes all types) ;)really really wants this part to not be able to add fuel... then okay, just delete the relevant .cfg file from this mod and it'll go back to stock behavior.

3 hours ago, Tyko said:

Just a suggestion, but if you used +Part and created a new part based on the same model you could accomplish your goal of adding fueled adapters without removing the standard structural adapters.

Yes, but since that's the exact dictionary definition of "What I Really Don't Want", then that's not what I'm going to do.  Reasons why that option is a total non-starter for me:

  • It means there would be multiple parts in the game with the same model and appearance.  This is anathema to me.
  • It would leave a (to me) totally useless and pointless structural adapter cluttering up the "structural" parts tab.  And I loathe clutter.  I didn't want to add a part, I wanted to give a more useful purpose to an existing part.
  • It would be inconsistent with the rest of the game, and inconsistency is another pet peeve of mine.  Show me the "structural only, not a fuel tank" adapter for going from 1.25m to 1.875m.  Or from 1.875m to 2.5m.  Or from 3.75m to 5m.  You can't, because there aren't any, because Squad has decided (and frankly, I agree with them) that only one part-- a fueled one-- is needed.  The only inconsistent "gap" there is from 2.5m to 3.75m, where the adapter is just a structural-- oh wait, never mind, Squad fixed that and now it has fuel.  :sticktongue:

To be clear:  My goal in this case wasn't to add a fueled adapter.  My goal was to make the existing part into a fueled adapter, for all the above reasons.  If you don't like that, then that's fine, just delete the .cfg.  :)

3 hours ago, Tyko said:

You could also then up the dry mass a bit to reflect the extra components/plumbing needed for a fuel tank.

Nope, that wouldn't be needed even if I did.  Because the standard wet-dry mass ratio is 9:1 for fuel tanks, and the FL-A10's mass ratio is already worse than that simply by adding fuel (the structural part is unreasonably heavy).  Therefore, when I added fuel to it, I didn't feel any need to raise its dry mass.

 

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On 3/14/2018 at 1:30 AM, Snark said:
  • Q: Hey! Didn't Porkjet release two versions of each engine, one "bare" and one "boat-tail"? Why don't you make these engines do the variant-switching thing between those two, like all those cool new engines in Making History?
  • A: Short answer is "because I couldn't figure out how, in the hour or so I spent tinkering with it." First, the whole "variant switching" thing is brand new to KSP, and I don't have any documentation to go by, so after a certain amount of futile trial-and-error effort, I gave up. Also, it's worth noting that Porkjet modeled these "variants" as separate parts, over a year ago when variant-switching wasn't a thing yet, and I don't know if it's actually physically possible to get them to work together as a single part with variants. If anyone else manages to figure this out, please let me know-- I'm all ears, and I'd happily add it to the mod.

PartVariants were just added for the Porkjet engines here:

 

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