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[1.5.0 <-> 1.8.1] Kerbalism v3.2

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11 hours ago, Azzinoth said:

Hello,

Is there a way to make contract packs work with kerbalism? I'm using the field research contract pack and the issue is that the condition "Must have valid experiments to run at KSC" is never fulfilled, so I can't accept the contract.

Kerbalism removes / doesn't support the KSC biomes, so you won't be able to fulfill those contracts. Others should work fine.

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19 hours ago, Sir Mortimer said:

If you want to use engine failures, you need the latest dev version. At this point I'd recommend using that version over the latest release anyway, since there is so much fixed in it and not many known issues, none of which are serious.

You can get the latest stable release version from GitHub or CKAN, dev builds can be found here.

Nice to learn more about this, great. I guess Kerbalism-Core_dev-7229_for_KSP1.5.0-1.8.9.zip is not working with older configs, isn't it? Too much in experiment handlng has changed.

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1 hour ago, New Horizons said:

Nice to learn more about this, great. I guess Kerbalism-Core_dev-7229_for_KSP1.5.0-1.8.9.zip is not working with older configs, isn't it? Too much in experiment handlng has changed.

You need the config zip that comes with the core zip. A couple of things changed in regards to experiment definitions. For this reason please make sure to delete any existing Kerbalism folders before copying the dev version into your GameData, otherwise you might end up with duplicate/redundant/conflicting configurations.

 

Edit: There's a New And Noteworthy page on the wiki if you're interested.

Edited by Sir Mortimer

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7 hours ago, Sir Mortimer said:

Kerbalism removes / doesn't support the KSC biomes, so you won't be able to fulfill those contracts. Others should work fine.

Thats good to know, but I have the same bug for all other field research contracts, for example this one.  https://imgur.com/IuKxfAC

The condition "Must have valid experiment to perform" is always unmet. Without Kerbalism it works. I'm using KSP 1.8 with the latest Kerbalism dev build-
 

Edited by Azzinoth

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@Sir Mortimer, I have a small issue. It seems that for whatever reason, Kerbalism shows my vessel as unpressurized in the Stress tab in the Kerbalism window in VAB, even though Habitat tab shows pressurization as Good. I have a ECLS module for pressurization, it is turned On in VAB, and there is a nitrogen reserve. So everything should be working fine. So why does Stress tab still think that the vessel is unpressurized? I am trying to complete the 30 day in orbit endurance contract, and this makes it difficult to gauge the actual stress a kerbal can take. Here is a screenshot showing the issue:

 

k5R4PMt.png

 

P.S. I also asked another question a while ago, it probably went unnoticed - with the Lifetime Radiation option turned on, how can I check the radiation levels on my Kerbals without having to send them on a flight?

Thank you for your time :)

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2 hours ago, aluc24 said:

@Sir Mortimer, I have a small issue. It seems that for whatever reason, Kerbalism shows my vessel as unpressurized in the Stress tab in the Kerbalism window in VAB, even though Habitat tab shows pressurization as Good. I have a ECLS module for pressurization, it is turned On in VAB, and there is a nitrogen reserve. So everything should be working fine. So why does Stress tab still think that the vessel is unpressurized? I am trying to complete the 30 day in orbit endurance contract, and this makes it difficult to gauge the actual stress a kerbal can take. Here is a screenshot showing the issue:

P.S. I also asked another question a while ago, it probably went unnoticed - with the Lifetime Radiation option turned on, how can I check the radiation levels on my Kerbals without having to send them on a flight?

Thank you for your time :)

The Mk1 pod is unpressurized. You will want a better pod to do the 30 day contract.

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6 hours ago, lordcirth said:

The Mk1 pod is unpressurized. You will want a better pod to do the 30 day contract.

Thank you, I missed that one! Now, only the question about radiation remains :)

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58 minutes ago, aluc24 said:

Thank you, I missed that one! Now, only the question about radiation remains :)

It doesn't have to be a better pod, the KV-1 "Onion" pod has a pressurized habitat and is avaiable from the start. About the radiation, I haven't seen any other way to check that. You have to put them on flight.

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Hmm, I was convinced I did the 30 day contract with an Mk1 pod...

Anyway, I noticed a minor issue in the current dev build: I like the idea of new science menu. But I turned off science in the config, so I guess the menu shouldn't be visible. Or can it still be useful?

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9 hours ago, aluc24 said:

Thank you, I missed that one! Now, only the question about radiation remains :)

For now, life time radiation isn't displayed anywhere.

On 10/19/2019 at 7:09 PM, Azzinoth said:

Thats good to know, but I have the same bug for all other field research contracts, for example this one.  https://imgur.com/IuKxfAC

The condition "Must have valid experiment to perform" is always unmet. Without Kerbalism it works. I'm using KSP 1.8 with the latest Kerbalism dev build-
 

Ah, I see. I just looked into it and I think Kerbalism breaks contract configurator contracts that query the stock science archive via AllScienceSubjects* - which FieldResearch is doing a lot. I'm afraid there's not much that can be done about this now. I'll add it to the list of known incompatibilities.

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4 hours ago, infinite_monkey said:

Anyway, I noticed a minor issue in the current dev build: I like the idea of new science menu. But I turned off science in the config, so I guess the menu shouldn't be visible. Or can it still be useful?

Good point! Will be removed when science is off.

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On 10/20/2019 at 5:46 AM, lordcirth said:

The Mk1 pod is unpressurized. You will want a better pod to do the 30 day contract.

Huh, never noticed that. And why it is like that?

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4 hours ago, JebIsDeadBaby said:

Huh, never noticed that. And why it is like that?

Because it is modeled after the Mercury capsule, which was unpressurized.

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27 minutes ago, lordcirth said:

Because it is modeled after the Mercury capsule, which was unpressurized.

It had pure oxygen atmosphere at 340 mbar (so I guess the same as in Apollo capsule?). Had it been unpressurized, the space suit would have to be, which would make it too stiff to operate the craft. 

Edited by JebIsDeadBaby

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46 minutes ago, JebIsDeadBaby said:

It had pure oxygen atmosphere at 340 mbar (so I guess the same as in Apollo capsule?). Had it been unpressurized, the space suit would have to be, which would make it too stiff to operate the craft. 

comfort is about the ability to move about a vessel without having to wear a space suit. As far as I know, they never put those suits off in mercury

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2 hours ago, Sir Mortimer said:

comfort is about the ability to move about a vessel without having to wear a space suit. As far as I know, they never put those suits off in mercury

Technically, they didn't have to, it was a safety measure. In fact they kept they visors open and breathed capsule atmosphere. They couldn't put them off because the space was so cramped, also flight duration was so short there really was no need to. If pressurized in the STRESS tab is supposed to reflect crew's confidence in pressurization system, then I don't think any pod deserves higher notes. In fact the only death caused by depressurization occurred on Soyuz 11, an advanced design. 

If it means that there is no pressurization system at all in the Mk1 pod, then there probably should be one, if you want to model it after the Mercury capsule, and it should use oxygen instead of nitrogen. If you don't, I'm fine with it anyway, as it is Kerbal Mk1 not the Mecury after all. However in both the crew window as in the capsule cutaway view one can clearly see that Kerbals wear no helmet during IVA. :-)

Edited by JebIsDeadBaby

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2 hours ago, JebIsDeadBaby said:

Technically, they didn't have to, it was a safety measure. In fact they kept they visors open and breathed capsule atmosphere.

Yes, the atmosphere in the mercury capsule was the same they still use today in the spacesuits themselves. It is 20.7 kPa partial pressure of oxygen + 5.3 kPa CO2 + 6.3 kPa water vapor pressure for a total of 0.32 bar, without any nitrogen. The lower pressure makes it easier to move in the spacesuit. According to this source you can live in such an atmosphere indefinitely.

Edited by Azzinoth

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As was said, it's about comfort. I guess cheating the comfort in some way that is easiest for those making this mod. I wouldn't want to spend 30 days in that tiny thing, pressurised or not...

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48 minutes ago, Azzinoth said:

Yes, the atmosphere in the mercury capsule was the same they still use today in the spacesuits themselves. It is 20.7 kPa partial pressure of oxygen + 5.3 kPa CO2 + 6.3 kPa water vapor pressure for a total of 0.32 bar, without any nitrogen. The lower pressure makes it easier to move in the spacesuit. According to this source you can live in such an atmosphere indefinitely.

That 5.3kPa CO2 partial pressure is almost certainly a typo, as that's almost a level that can asphyxiate despite the level of O2.  And I see it exists in the Wikipedia article too....

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12 hours ago, Sir Mortimer said:

This didn't age very well - @aluc24 try the latest dev build.

nice - works great with v 1.8 - Thanks!

just noticed that Jblrepos mod "ResearchBodies" (V.1.11.0.0 - max KSP version 1.8.9) causes a heavy (12) EC drain. All the other mods I use seem to be fine

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41 minutes ago, Jacke said:

That 5.3kPa CO2 partial pressure is almost certainly a typo

Yeah this raport states, that Mercury, Gemini and Apollo used 100% oxygen atmospheres with optimal allowed level of CO2 at 0.505 kPa and twice as much as maximum allowed. 

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2 hours ago, Jacke said:

That 5.3kPa CO2 partial pressure is almost certainly a typo, as that's almost a level that can asphyxiate despite the level of O2.  And I see it exists in the Wikipedia article too....

You're right thats not the actual atmosphere in the capsule. But I believe the calculation on wiki is correct.

Quote

The alveolar oxygen partial pressure is lower than the atmospheric O2 partial pressure for two reasons.

  • Firstly, as the air enters the lungs, it is humidified by the upper airway and thus the partial pressure of water vapour (47 mmHg) reduces the oxygen partial pressure to about 100 mmHg.
  • The rest of the difference is due to the continual uptake of oxygen by the pulmonary capillaries, and the continual diffusion of CO2 out of the capillaries into the alveoli.

So if I'm understanding that correctly, you need 32 kPa oxygen atmosphere to get 21 kPa alveolar partial pressure of oxygen, which is calculated by adding these values for CO2 and water vapor, because of some human biology stuff ...

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21 minutes ago, Azzinoth said:

So if I'm understanding that correctly, you need 32 kPa oxygen atmosphere to get 21 kPa alveolar partial pressure of oxygen, which is calculated by adding these values for CO2 and water vapor, because of some human biology stuff ...

That's not right.  Regular air has about 21 kPa oxygen partial pressure.  Whatever it becomes in the lungs because of added moisture is by effective evolutionary design (as are the pulmonary surfactants).  Oxygen partial pressures of are kept under tight control throughout the body to almost anoxic levels to keep a low but constant stream of oxygen to cells for metabolism.  This is to reduce the concentration of oxygen-related free radicals which are a constant source of damage that has to be repaired.  Those free radicals are the damaging intermediary for hard radiation as well as why 2 atmospheres of pure oxygen is lethal in 1 to 2 days.

I suspect Mercury used 32 kPa total pressure in the environment due to other limitations and didn't want to drop total pressure further.  Because they were only using humidified oxygen, the oxygen partial pressure was raised.  That much over normal air represented limited risk.

Edited by Jacke

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5 minutes ago, Jacke said:

That's not right.  Regular air has about 21 kPa oxygen partial pressure.  Whatever it becomes in the lungs because of added moisture is by effective evolutionary design (as are the pulmonary surfactants).  Oxygen partial pressures of are kept under tight control throughout the body to almost anoxic levels to keep a low but constant stream of oxygen to cells for metabolism.  This is to reduce the concentration of oxygen-related free radicals which are a constant source of damage that has to be repaired.  Those free radicals are the damaging intermediary for hard radiation as well as why 2 atmospheres of pure oxygen is lethal in 1 to 2 days.

In an earth like atmosphere it is 21 kPa, because the nitrogen somehow helps. Without the nitrogen you need 32 kPa oxygen to get the same amount of oxygen into your body as on earth. Thats why the spacesuits have 32 kPa oxygen apparently. I'm no expert, just repeating what I read in the source from wikipedia. It's not a typo on wikipedia, you can calculate the 32 kPa using the Alveolar gas equation.

But yes 21 kPa is not the alveolar partial pressure of oxygen, that would be even lower. I formulated that wrong, sorry.

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