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The Ultimate Jool 5 Challenge Continued


JacobJHC
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13 hours ago, Lt_Duckweed said:

This would qualify for Level 1, and I dont think it qualifies for any special accolades, as it is too heavy for low mass, too costly for low cost, and too partly for low part count.

Extremely impressive! No ISRU, fully recovered, no planetary gravity assists and highly enjoyable to watch. I've been working on a fully recoverable, non-ISRU Jool-5 lately, you have given me much to think about.

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On 7/6/2021 at 5:54 PM, Lt_Duckweed said:

I just finished my first ever Jool 5.  With the added twist that:

1. The craft travels from Kerbin to Tylo orbit as a single stage, then to laythe and back home as a single stage.

2. All parts are recovered on the runway at the end of the mission.

3. No isru, aero exploits, or abusive part clipping are used.

4. The transfer to and from Jool is direct, no assists.

5. And finally, it only uses 2 engines, one Rapier, and one Nerv.

This would qualify for Level 1, and I dont think it qualifies for any special accolades, as it is too heavy for low mass, too costly for low cost, and too partly for low part count.

 

Congratulations @Lt_Duckweed on completing the Jool 5 challenge on the 1st level! The design of this craft is very unique, I felt like I was watching an alien spacecraft. Additionally, your mission is only one of a handful of Jool 5 submissions I have seen which utilized nuclear engines for Tylo landings. I must say I think this is one of the first Jool 5 missions I've seen in which Laythe was the final moon visited. The video is well edited as well, and I will be adding you to the leaderboard now. :)

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Because the planet terrain maps were different in pre-0.21 versions of the game. Also, the unstable physics of the old game would be its own challenge.

Edited by KSP_linux0191
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1 hour ago, KSP_linux0191 said:

Do you know what the differences between KSP v0.19 and v1.11 are?

In 0.19:

  • Completely different aerodynamic model
  • Completely different thermal model
  • Different hydrodynamic model
  • No 64-bit version
  • No flags
  • No Clamp-o-Tron Sr.
  • Different Space Center
  • Somewhat different and lower-res celestial body maps
  • No vessel type filtering in Tracking Station
  • Different wheel physics
  • PNG textures loading is less efficient
  • Worse SAS, no direction aim
  • No Astronaut Complex
  • No Mission Control screen
  • No R&D screen
  • No Admin building
  • No science biomes
  • No science
  • No Lab module
  • No Career Mode
  • No currencies
  • No RAPIER
  • No tweakable options for parts
  • No 3.75m parts
  • No LES
  • No Kickback SRB
  • Weaker joints
  • No asteroids or comets
  • No grabbers
  • Maneuver nodes aren't saved on exiting the game
  • No 'Vernor' hot-gas RCS
  • No Puff OMS engine
  • No roll control by thust vectoring
  • Basically no Mk2 or Mk3 spaceplane parts
  • No upgradeable facilities
  • No Kerbal experience rankings
  • No offset, rotate gizmos in VAB/SPH
  • Tanks and engines are lumped into one Propulsion category
  • No fairings
  • No airbrakes
  • No mining equipment
  • No Flea booster
  • No fluid vario-spectrometer experiment
  • No climbing kerbals
  • No SAS direction hold, only basic stabilization
  • No kerbal specializations
  • Less structural bits
  • No service bays
  • No fuel cells
  • (iirc) Mainsail + Jumbo-64 = Rapid overheat
  • No Vector SSME
  • No 0.625m jet parts
  • No navball on EVA
  • No KSPedia
  • Buggier wheel physics
  • No CommNet
  • No KerbNet
  • Less easter eggs
  • No autostruts
  • No kerbal G-limit
  • No Panther jet engine
  • No dV display
  • No EVA parachute
  • No current part revamps
  • No part variants
  • No changeable control orientations
  • No AGL (ground level) altimeter
  • Worse terrain shader
  • No 2.5m SRBs
  • No 0.625m SRBs
  • No shuttle wings
  • Worse-looking wing parts
  • No discoverable launch sites
  • No inventory, construction mode
  • Less antennae
  • Infinite gliders
  • No proper electric motors (no Breaking Ground DLC)
  • No 1.875m parts (no Making History DLC)
  • No Mk1 Lander Can
  • No Cupola
  • Parts are more likely to explode on contact with another vessel
  • No same-vessel interaction between parts
  • And that's just some things.
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16 hours ago, OrdinaryKerman said:

In 0.19:

  • No 64-bit version
  • No flags
  • Different Space Center
  • No Astronaut Complex
  • Basically no Mk2 or Mk3 spaceplane parts

-No 64-bit version;     Actually, there is-at least on the linux distro. 

-No flags;     The ironic thing about that is that they actually appeared only one version later (0.20)!

-Different Space Center;     The space center was changed two versions later, in 0.21.

-No Astronaut Complex;     This was also added in version 0.21

-Basically no Mk2 or Mk3 spaceplane parts;     In advanced terms, the Mk2 and Mk3 parts consist of;

  • Mk2 liquid fuel fuselage (holds enough fuel for average jet engines only)
  • Mk2 to size 1 adapter (again, holds only enough fuel for average jet engine use)
  • Mk3 cockpit
  • Mk3 liquid fuel fuselage (same as first two above), and
  • Mk3 to Mk2 adapter (same as first two above)

Only five parts! Anyone can count that many on their fingers!

Another thing worth mentioning is that the external command seat was not available until version 0.20.

One thing that I have found out from transitioning old parts to the new simulator is that the old parts are visibly smaller than the new parts when stacked on top of each other. (This can be fixed by tweaking the "rescaleFactor" variable.)

Edited by KSP_linux0191
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4 hours ago, KSP_linux0191 said:

One thing that I have found out from transitioning old parts to the new simulator is that the old parts are visibly smaller than the new parts when stacked on top of each other. (This can be fixed by tweaking the "rescaleFactor" variable.)

Wait so are you doing it in 0.19 or just using parts from 0.19 in modern KSP?

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13 hours ago, JacobJHC said:

Wait so are you doing it in 0.19 or just using parts from 0.19 in modern KSP?

I'm going to TRY to do it in 0.19, but obviously I need more training for high Delta-V high TWR designs.

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9 hours ago, KSP_linux0191 said:

I'm going to TRY to do it in 0.19, but obviously I need more training for high Delta-V high TWR designs.

Don't we all. High TWR reduces delta-v usually, but adding more fuel then lowers the TWR, and so on and so forth...

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I forgot that I had been trying to do another low cost Jool 5 - this is my newest attempt:

2rDCenW.png

I use a much smaller Terrier stage and a larger Spark powered fuel tanker, as well as stripping down the landers significantly. I have three different landers now.

I haven't flown the full mission yet but I should be able to do everything with a good amount of fuel left over.

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@JacobJHC Jool 5 in 17635 funds, with a bonus journey to the bottom of Laythe's oceans. This mission is basically the same as the other one but stripped down a lot further.

2rDCenW.png

Launch and gravity assists

Spoiler

I1UaItG.png

Gravity turn

E3PkYW9.png

Kickback burns out

BRNwKRM.png

Circularizing. Here we get our first good look at the rocket. From top to bottom: Laythe ascent vehicle, Laythe submarine module, Vall lander, Tylo lander, fuel tanker, kick stage

IBLCoMB.png

Mun transfer

k6IHvAR.png

Finishing Mun transfer

mE9kv1x.png

Detaching empty tanks

OAdCj6H.png

Mun flyby

4Yw7T3e.png

Kerbin-Mun flyby

1OGF0jP.png

Close pass

2WO9VCb.png

Kerbin flyby

ERYhyXG.png

Eve flyby

iededBZ.png

Kerbin flybys

Sm6ptDk.png

Separation - tanker circularizes around Tylo with the Tylo lander, the rest of the craft goes to Laythe

Laythe and Tylo

Spoiler

bGqStwh.png

Laythe aerobrake

erjNrDD.png

I spin to throw the Vall lander into a stable orbit

O3kDvtz.png

After decoupling

mLoriF5.png

Laythe descent

0iX3ypQ.png

Chute deployed

Q2ffKZ4.png

Sinking

Y9sKtNv.png

Hit rock bottom. The craft barely sinks so I burn off a tiny bit of fuel from the Dumpling tanks to ascend back to the surface.

y8djujR.png

Spark burns out - I went as shallow as possible without melting the fairing

uRyxrFC.png

Circularizing with the jetpack

uW3m0VV.png

In orbit

NxDCjhP.png

Intersect

tLf52i8.png

"Docked"

FRBZQDD.png

Meanwhile the fuel tanker circularizes

DDwtpD8.png

Tylo transfer

J10GGbZ.png

Capture burn

iAwpLKc.png

Rendezvous

tj1R1Vt.png

I brought four jetpacks on this mission

Pur7sjo.png

Descent over Tylo

iX7ygal.png

Avoiding ground

NtmUJRJ.png

Landed

wPM9Uet.png

Ascent

ghwDHfL.png

Finishing with jetpack

FWUBLc6.png

In orbit

E9zk7Ls.png

Performed some weight reduction

The other moons

Spoiler

TVW7FIP.png

Descent over Vall (Ignore the VPN)

2XHEuo9.png

Landed

u9b0GK1.png

Ascent

yiakpm1.png

In orbit.

ik4Mb4w.png

Burning to elliptical Vall orbit

7rvytx8.png

Pol transfer

jR6I8Bk.png

Using the third jetpack

RS1c7b2.png

Landed

UMAZRPT.png

Ascent

cAuSaxe.png

Intersect

XWFHmU9.png

Tylo assist to Vall

yrRMYGM.png

Intersect

i2jemxk.png

Docked

vFe46CC.png

High over Jool, on the way to Bop, Bill does some space soldering

8DEsUEN.png

Descent over Bop using the last jetpack

hay3Axb.png

Landed on Bop

O38UDXX.png

Ascent

M6sxR1i.png

Rendezvous

Return

Spoiler

MpMECsD.png

Tylo and Laythe assists to escape from Jool

N5ptcER.png

Duna aerobrake

kZJpzcl.png

Aerobraking

AtjTNcF.png

Kerbin transfer

GHnsFoN.png

Mun assist to get good Kerbin aerobrake

qQiquaG.png

Burning off excess fuel

DVtjqRL.png

Aerobraking

nRlXJrh.png

Descent

XY4H6kr.png

Bailed out

nXga8AF.png

Landed

Y9sKtNv.png

NtmUJRJ.png

2XHEuo9.png

RS1c7b2.png

hay3Axb.png

nXga8AF.png

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On 8/3/2021 at 9:28 PM, camacju said:

@JacobJHC Jool 5 in 17635 funds, with a bonus journey to the bottom of Laythe's oceans. This mission is basically the same as the other one but stripped down a lot further.

2rDCenW.png

Launch and gravity assists

  Reveal hidden contents

I1UaItG.png

Gravity turn

E3PkYW9.png

Kickback burns out

BRNwKRM.png

Circularizing. Here we get our first good look at the rocket. From top to bottom: Laythe ascent vehicle, Laythe submarine module, Vall lander, Tylo lander, fuel tanker, kick stage

IBLCoMB.png

Mun transfer

k6IHvAR.png

Finishing Mun transfer

mE9kv1x.png

Detaching empty tanks

OAdCj6H.png

Mun flyby

4Yw7T3e.png

Kerbin-Mun flyby

1OGF0jP.png

Close pass

2WO9VCb.png

Kerbin flyby

ERYhyXG.png

Eve flyby

iededBZ.png

Kerbin flybys

Sm6ptDk.png

Separation - tanker circularizes around Tylo with the Tylo lander, the rest of the craft goes to Laythe

Laythe and Tylo

  Reveal hidden contents

bGqStwh.png

Laythe aerobrake

erjNrDD.png

I spin to throw the Vall lander into a stable orbit

O3kDvtz.png

After decoupling

mLoriF5.png

Laythe descent

0iX3ypQ.png

Chute deployed

Q2ffKZ4.png

Sinking

Y9sKtNv.png

Hit rock bottom. The craft barely sinks so I burn off a tiny bit of fuel from the Dumpling tanks to ascend back to the surface.

y8djujR.png

Spark burns out - I went as shallow as possible without melting the fairing

uRyxrFC.png

Circularizing with the jetpack

uW3m0VV.png

In orbit

NxDCjhP.png

Intersect

tLf52i8.png

"Docked"

FRBZQDD.png

Meanwhile the fuel tanker circularizes

DDwtpD8.png

Tylo transfer

J10GGbZ.png

Capture burn

iAwpLKc.png

Rendezvous

tj1R1Vt.png

I brought four jetpacks on this mission

Pur7sjo.png

Descent over Tylo

iX7ygal.png

Avoiding ground

NtmUJRJ.png

Landed

wPM9Uet.png

Ascent

ghwDHfL.png

Finishing with jetpack

FWUBLc6.png

In orbit

E9zk7Ls.png

Performed some weight reduction

The other moons

  Reveal hidden contents

TVW7FIP.png

Descent over Vall (Ignore the VPN)

2XHEuo9.png

Landed

u9b0GK1.png

Ascent

yiakpm1.png

In orbit.

ik4Mb4w.png

Burning to elliptical Vall orbit

7rvytx8.png

Pol transfer

jR6I8Bk.png

Using the third jetpack

RS1c7b2.png

Landed

UMAZRPT.png

Ascent

cAuSaxe.png

Intersect

XWFHmU9.png

Tylo assist to Vall

yrRMYGM.png

Intersect

i2jemxk.png

Docked

vFe46CC.png

High over Jool, on the way to Bop, Bill does some space soldering

8DEsUEN.png

Descent over Bop using the last jetpack

hay3Axb.png

Landed on Bop

O38UDXX.png

Ascent

M6sxR1i.png

Rendezvous

Return

  Reveal hidden contents

MpMECsD.png

Tylo and Laythe assists to escape from Jool

N5ptcER.png

Duna aerobrake

kZJpzcl.png

Aerobraking

AtjTNcF.png

Kerbin transfer

GHnsFoN.png

Mun assist to get good Kerbin aerobrake

qQiquaG.png

Burning off excess fuel

DVtjqRL.png

Aerobraking

nRlXJrh.png

Descent

XY4H6kr.png

Bailed out

nXga8AF.png

Landed

Y9sKtNv.png

NtmUJRJ.png

2XHEuo9.png

RS1c7b2.png

hay3Axb.png

nXga8AF.png

Wow that is optimized! I'm not super familiar with the in orbit construction mechanic. Just to be sure, was the weight reduction and fuel tank jettisoning done using that mechanic? 

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1 hour ago, JacobJHC said:

I'm not super familiar with the in orbit construction mechanic. Just to be sure, was the weight reduction and fuel tank jettisoning done using that mechanic? 

Yes - EVA construction was used for this

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On 8/5/2021 at 6:37 PM, camacju said:

Yes - EVA construction was used for this

Clever :D Would building a lander while in orbit save cost or mass in any meaningful way?

Full disclosure, I'm starting a new job currently and will be swamped for the next weekish. I already reviewed your submission and it's good to go, but I'll re-review it and give it the official recognition as soon as I can.

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2 minutes ago, JacobJHC said:

Would building a lander while in orbit save cost or mass in any meaningful way?

No - you have to pack the lander in cargo containers and then unpack it in orbit. Won't give any advantage that way.

I basically use EVA construction because 0.1 EVA propellant is a lot lighter and cheaper than a decoupler, so detaching used fuel tanks is easy

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/3/2021 at 9:28 PM, camacju said:

@JacobJHC Jool 5 in 17635 funds, with a bonus journey to the bottom of Laythe's oceans. This mission is basically the same as the other one but stripped down a lot further.

2rDCenW.png

Launch and gravity assists

  Hide contents

I1UaItG.png

Gravity turn

E3PkYW9.png

Kickback burns out

BRNwKRM.png

Circularizing. Here we get our first good look at the rocket. From top to bottom: Laythe ascent vehicle, Laythe submarine module, Vall lander, Tylo lander, fuel tanker, kick stage

IBLCoMB.png

Mun transfer

k6IHvAR.png

Finishing Mun transfer

mE9kv1x.png

Detaching empty tanks

OAdCj6H.png

Mun flyby

4Yw7T3e.png

Kerbin-Mun flyby

1OGF0jP.png

Close pass

2WO9VCb.png

Kerbin flyby

ERYhyXG.png

Eve flyby

iededBZ.png

Kerbin flybys

Sm6ptDk.png

Separation - tanker circularizes around Tylo with the Tylo lander, the rest of the craft goes to Laythe

Laythe and Tylo

  Hide contents

bGqStwh.png

Laythe aerobrake

erjNrDD.png

I spin to throw the Vall lander into a stable orbit

O3kDvtz.png

After decoupling

mLoriF5.png

Laythe descent

0iX3ypQ.png

Chute deployed

Q2ffKZ4.png

Sinking

Y9sKtNv.png

Hit rock bottom. The craft barely sinks so I burn off a tiny bit of fuel from the Dumpling tanks to ascend back to the surface.

y8djujR.png

Spark burns out - I went as shallow as possible without melting the fairing

uRyxrFC.png

Circularizing with the jetpack

uW3m0VV.png

In orbit

NxDCjhP.png

Intersect

tLf52i8.png

"Docked"

FRBZQDD.png

Meanwhile the fuel tanker circularizes

DDwtpD8.png

Tylo transfer

J10GGbZ.png

Capture burn

iAwpLKc.png

Rendezvous

tj1R1Vt.png

I brought four jetpacks on this mission

Pur7sjo.png

Descent over Tylo

iX7ygal.png

Avoiding ground

NtmUJRJ.png

Landed

wPM9Uet.png

Ascent

ghwDHfL.png

Finishing with jetpack

FWUBLc6.png

In orbit

E9zk7Ls.png

Performed some weight reduction

The other moons

  Reveal hidden contents

TVW7FIP.png

Descent over Vall (Ignore the VPN)

2XHEuo9.png

Landed

u9b0GK1.png

Ascent

yiakpm1.png

In orbit.

ik4Mb4w.png

Burning to elliptical Vall orbit

7rvytx8.png

Pol transfer

jR6I8Bk.png

Using the third jetpack

RS1c7b2.png

Landed

UMAZRPT.png

Ascent

cAuSaxe.png

Intersect

XWFHmU9.png

Tylo assist to Vall

yrRMYGM.png

Intersect

i2jemxk.png

Docked

vFe46CC.png

High over Jool, on the way to Bop, Bill does some space soldering

8DEsUEN.png

Descent over Bop using the last jetpack

hay3Axb.png

Landed on Bop

O38UDXX.png

Ascent

M6sxR1i.png

Rendezvous

Return

  Reveal hidden contents

MpMECsD.png

Tylo and Laythe assists to escape from Jool

N5ptcER.png

Duna aerobrake

kZJpzcl.png

Aerobraking

AtjTNcF.png

Kerbin transfer

GHnsFoN.png

Mun assist to get good Kerbin aerobrake

qQiquaG.png

Burning off excess fuel

DVtjqRL.png

Aerobraking

nRlXJrh.png

Descent

XY4H6kr.png

Bailed out

nXga8AF.png

Landed

Y9sKtNv.png

NtmUJRJ.png

2XHEuo9.png

RS1c7b2.png

hay3Axb.png

nXga8AF.png

Congratulations @camacjuon completing a low cost Jool 5 mission! Your use of EVA tanks and manually removing fuel tanks as staging was quite a clever technique, I'll add this mission the leaderboard now.

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Here's another potential Jool 5. Not low cost, low mass, or low parts - I'm going for low engines.

I'm going to try to land on all five of Jool's moons using only one Rapier engine for the entire flight.

hjFloOk.png

Here's a preliminary image of what the craft might look like - I need to test some things still (The Laythe and Tylo landings specifically) but this will likely be pretty close to the final design.

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