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Making History Engine Round-Up


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EDIT: This post is now pretty much obsolete in light of the significant balance changes to the engines in version 1.6.  I've posted some updated thoughts at:

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Below are my first impressions of how the new rocket engines in Making History perform, how they compare to existing stock engines, and some applications where they might perform well.  My overall impression is that, like the stock game, these are just all over the place in terms of balance.  A couple seem way overpowered (especially considering their "historical" vintage), a few seem like they'll never get used, and a few look like decent role-players.  And the tech tree progression makes no sense, but I've not even going to try to delve into that one.  

So here we go, from smallest to largest:

 

Cub:  This little radial engine is apparently based on the Vernier motors used alongside non-vectored engines on Soviet rockets.  The stats on the Cub are very similar to two Sparks: each Cub has double the thrust, just under double the mass, and the same ISP as a Spark.  Of course, there's a major difference in that the Cub is radially mounted, and it has generally better stats than the other radial engines.  A main drawback of the Cub is that its gimbal only operates in one dimension.  Thus, you will need more than two to give your rocket full control.  It's also relatively expensive for an engine its size. 

While the Cub is perfectly usable as a vernier engine like you see in the demo missions, it's potentially capable of much more.  A pair of these offers more thrust than a Terrier, with less mass, much better atmospheric ISP, and not-that-much-worse vacuum ISP. Thus, it might find a good home on something like a Laythe ascent vehicle (if you choose not to use jets).  And the radial design makes the Cub a great fit for landers and other craft where ground clearance is at a premium.

 

Kodiak:  This is KSP's version of the RD-107 engine family used in the Vostok, Soyuz and other notable Soviet/Russian rockets.  Gameplay-wise, for all intents and purposes, it's a reskinned Reliant.  Same mass, nearly the same ISP stats (a tiny bit worse in vacuum), only a tiny bit more ASL thrust, and a small increase in cost.  So it's got the same advantages (cheap, good TWR) and disadvantages (mediocre ISP, no gimbal) as the Reliant. 

Thus, it's probably useful for the same applications as a Reliant, such as radial boosters, or clustering for a cheap launch stage.  However, if you're on a tight budget, it might be hard to justify the 200 fund premium over the Reliant.  And if you're not on a tight budget, you might want to use a more advanced engine to begin with.  

 

Cheetah:  I'm not entirely sure what this real-life engine is modeled after.  Possibly the second stage of a Gemini, or the descent stage of the Apollo lunar module?  In any event, this is basically two Terriers mashed into one engine.  You get double the mass, double the thrust, and the same vacuum ISP.  Atmospheric efficiency is a little better, but still bad enough you don't want to run this thing on the ground, so that makes little practical difference.   

So if you have a craft that's a little too big for a Terrier, but too small for a Poodle or Wolfhound, this is an obvious option.  However, its nozzle is quite long, which might make it more difficult to use in landers than a pair of Terriers -- especially since the new engine plates make clustering Terriers easier than ever.     

 

Skiff:  This seems to be based on the J-2 engine which powered the second and third stages of the Saturn V.  And this is where things get interesting, in my opinion.  The Skiff's ISP stats are fairly mediocre, and it looks like a bit of a tweener: not good enough atmospheric ISP to excel as a launch engine, and not good enough vacuum ISP for that role either.  But that changes when when you look at the mass (1 ton) and thrust (300 kN max).  That's a monstrous TWR, and beats every other engine in the game (yeah, even the Mammoth).  

The Skiff's ideal role is probably as a sustainer, similar to its real-life analog.  But sustainers don't really have that much of a place in stock KSP, where it only takes ~3,000 m/s of delta-v to reach orbit.  However, the Skiff's TWR is so outstanding that this thing ends up being pretty versatile.  It can definitely be used as a launch stage, particularly on the core stage along with some more ASL-optimized radial boosters (Bobcats, perhaps?).  The Skiff absolutely puts the Swivel to shame in this role.  It's also perfectly good as a second-stage engine that starts running mid-atmosphere and takes you all the way to the Mun or something.  Finally, it might work well on a larger lander if you can provide ground clearance for the large bell.

 

Bobcat:  The Bobcat resembles the LR-87 engine for the Titan II rocket, maybe most notable for launching the Gemini missions.  It's definitely a launch engine, with a stellar sea-level ISP of 290 (only slightly behind the Vector and Mammoth for tops in the game) and decent TWR.  With a max thrust of 400 kN, it's a terrific option for launching anything a little too small for a Skipper, and it should also pair well as a radial booster with the new 1.875m fuel tanks.  One other small advantage: the two nozzles can gimbal separately, giving you roll control. 

 

Wolfhound:  The Wolfhound looks like Kerbals' take on the Apollo service module engine, and might just have the most eye-popping number in Making History.  That, of course, is 412.  This thing's vacuum ISP blows away all other LOX engines, and challenges the NERV as a long-range option thanks to much better TWR, lower cost, and better tank compatibility.

Thus the Wolfhound is likely to be a mainstay for any vacuum-oriented ship big enough to need its substantial 375 kN thrust.  Planetary shuttles?  Sure!  Interplanetary missions?  Definitely!  Lunar mining ships?  Why not (just leave plenty of room for that long engine bell).  The one thing it might not make sense for is its ostensible purpose - the trip from LKO to Munar orbit and back is probably not long enough to make full use of the Wolfhound's remarkable efficiency. 

 

Mastodon:  Finally, we reach the KSP analog for perhaps the most legendary rocket engine of all time: the mighty F-1, which powered the first stage of the Saturn V.  The model looks great, and the ability to change stack sizes is very handy.  But the stats on this engine are, sadly, fairly disappointing.  The Mastodon is fairly similar to a Mainsail, but a bit lighter, a bit less powerful, and a bit less efficient.  But where it really gets bad is the price: at 22,000 funds, this costs almost double what a Mainsail does, and more than a Vector.  At that price, it's basically impossible to justify using this thing in Career mode.  The Mainsail, Vector, and clusters of smaller engines will all probably do a similar job  more efficiently.  And then there's the TwinBoar, which already made the Mainsail somewhat obsolete, and just destroys the Mastodon in terms of value for money.  For very big rockets, the Mammoth also delivers more for less compared to a Saturn V-style cluster of Mastodons.  Sadly, for me this engine will probably be consigned to replica duty and not much else. 

 

 

Edited by Aegolius13
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As I've mentioned in a few other threads...

The stats on the Skiff and the Wolfhound are swapped.

The Skiff is the analogue of the J-2 and the Wolfhound is the analogue of the Apollo CSM SPS. In real life, the J-2 was much heavier than the SPS and had an isp of around 420, while the SPS had twice the TWR of the J-2 but had a lower isp due to its use of pressure-fed hypergolics. In Kerbal, however, the Wolfhound is much heavier than the Skiff and has an isp of around 420, while the Skiff has twice the TWR of the Wolfhound but much lower isp.

I think this is probably a coding error.

Great overview, though! I will have to play around with the Bobcat a bit. It is definitely disappointing that the Kodiak didn't have some sort of additional flair to make it more useful than a Reliant. For example, it could have had a better vacuum isp and a smaller vertical size.

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  • 1 month later...

Agreed re: stats being swapped for the Wolfhound and Skiff.  I was curious about how they modeled the AJ10 so the first engine I looked at was the Wolfhound (the “10” in the name gave it away) and was like “the heck is with the Isp?”  Then I checked out the skiff (the RE-I2 made me figure in game analog for the J-2) and thought “Wow, they clearly got those backwards.”

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On 4/20/2018 at 6:38 PM, JerseyChris said:

Agreed re: stats being swapped for the Wolfhound and Skiff.  I was curious about how they modeled the AJ10 so the first engine I looked at was the Wolfhound (the “10” in the name gave it away) and was like “the heck is with the Isp?”  Then I checked out the skiff (the RE-I2 made me figure in game analog for the J-2) and thought “Wow, they clearly got those backwards.”

Here's my working proposal on changes to engines for use with Making History

Spoiler

@PART[LiquidEngineKE-1] // Mastadon

    @mass = 7
    @MODULE[ModuleEngines]
    { 
        @maxThrust = 1750
        !atmosphereCurve
        atmosphereCurve
        {
            key = 0 295
            key = 1 285
            key = 20 0.001
        }
    }
}
    
    
@PART[LiquidEngineLV-T91] // Cheetah

    @mass = 1
    @MODULE[ModuleEngines]
    { 
        @maxThrust = 165
        !atmosphereCurve
        atmosphereCurve
        {
            key = 0 335
            key = 1 100
            key = 6 0.001
        }
    }
}


@PART[LiquidEngineLV-TX87] // Bobcat

    @mass = 2.5
    @MODULE[ModuleEngines]
    { 
        @maxThrust = 600    
        !atmosphereCurve
        atmosphereCurve
        {
            key = 0 310
            key = 1 275
            key = 6 0.001
        }
    }
}
        
    
@PART[LiquidEngineRE-I2] // Skiff

    @mass = 3
    @MODULE[ModuleEngines]
    { 
        @maxThrust = 635
        !atmosphereCurve
        atmosphereCurve
        {
            key = 0 370
            key = 1 110
            key = 6 0.001
        }
    }
}
    
-PART[liquidEngine2-2]:FINAL {} // Remove Poodle. The model is my least fav and it doesn't look like a highly efficient vacuum engine - the nozzle is all wrong.
    
@PART[LiquidEngineRE-J10] // Wolfhound - replace stats with Poodle.It's a tested and proven engine but the Wolfhound model is so much better


    @mass = 1.75
    
    !MODULE[ModuleEngines] {}
    
    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleEngines
        thrustVectorTransformName = thrustTransform
        exhaustDamage = True
        ignitionThreshold = 0.1
        minThrust = 0
        maxThrust = 250
        heatProduction = 83
        fxOffset = 0, 0, 0.4
        EngineType = LiquidFuel
        exhaustDamageDistanceOffset = 1.75
        PROPELLANT
        {
            name = LiquidFuel
            ratio = 0.9
            DrawGauge = True
        }
        PROPELLANT
        {
            name = Oxidizer
            ratio = 1.1
        }
        atmosphereCurve
        {
            key = 0 350
            key = 1 90
            key = 3 0.001
        }
    }
}

    
@PART[LiquidEngineRK-7] // Kodiak

    @mass = 1.5
    @MODULE[ModuleEngines]
    { 
        @maxThrust = 280
        !atmosphereCurve
        atmosphereCurve
        {
            key = 0 320
            key = 1 280
            key = 20 0.001
        }
    }
}
    
    
@PART[LiquidEngineRV-1] // Cub

    @mass = 0.16
    @MODULE[ModuleEngines]
    { 
        @maxThrust = 35
        !atmosphereCurve
        atmosphereCurve
        {
            key = 0 320
            key = 1 270
            key = 20 0.001
        }
    }
}
    
    
@PART[engineLargeSkipper] // increased mass and max thrust. Made a niche for the Skipper

    @mass = 3.9
    @MODULE[ModuleEngines]
    { 
        @maxThrust = 975
    }
}

 

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