klesh

Suggestion: Click Altimeter Display for Radar Altimeter

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I would like to suggest that the Radar Altimeter readout found in various Command Pods be viewable outside IVA by clicking somewhere on the Altimeter display at the top of the screen.  I would like it to function in a similar way to Surface/Orbit/Target modes of the navball, where clicking the display will change it.

Radar altimeter functionality is already in the game, albeit in a place that makes it less than useful for most players.  This would be a quality of life improvement that lets us better see information the game is already willing to provide.

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Yes, absolutely.

Unsurprisingly this has been suggested before, but well worth asking for again.

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Thirded. Radar altimetry as a toggle-able, manned OR probed would be of great use, especially if it automatically switched from MSL to AGL (or AGL to MSL if you're going upwards) at 1000m. The functionality is already part of the stock ships, but like the OP stated, inconvenient to see sometimes.

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Make it unlockable in the mid-lower tech tree.  Or with Tracking upgrades.   But this is another no brainer IMO. 

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8 hours ago, Gargamel said:

Make it unlockable in the mid-lower tech tree.  Or with Tracking upgrades.   But this is another no brainer IMO. 

Why should it be locked?

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15 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

Why should it be locked?

Early planes didn't have radar altimeters, they used the mark 1 eyeball.  They didn't become prevelant till after WWII, even though United had some of it's planes using it just before as terrain avoidance. 

But I see it like the ability to EVA or use manuever nodes, it's another unlockable to give the game a little more reward feeling to it.  If it's low enough in the tech tree or building upgrades, the player shouldn't encounter that many scenarios where a radar altimeter would have made a difference before they unlock it. 

All that said, though, if radar altimetetry is unlockable, having an altitude display in the flight screen doesn't make that much sense without one.    Barometric altimeters for atmospheric flight sure, but knowing down to the meter your altitude over the mun?

Edited by Gargamel

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15 hours ago, Gargamel said:

Early planes didn't have radar altimeters, they used the mark 1 eyeball.  They didn't become prevelant till after WWII, even though United had some of it's planes using it just before as terrain avoidance. 

But I see it like the ability to EVA or use manuever nodes, it's another unlockable to give the game a little more reward feeling to it.  If it's low enough in the tech tree or building upgrades, the player shouldn't encounter that many scenarios where a radar altimeter would have made a difference before they unlock it. 

All that said, though, if radar altimetetry is unlockable, having an altitude display in the flight screen doesn't make that much sense without one.    Barometric altimeters for atmospheric flight sure, but knowing down to the meter your altitude over the mun?

But the radar altimeter is available inside the Mk-I Command Pod, from the moment you start a career. We're doing SPACE!, a certain level of base technology is assumed. Heck, without some serious finagling, every aeroplane made is a jet, well past the WWII tech level. All we're asking for is the ability to see radar altimetry outside of IVA. I can understand having an unlock or at least a component for probes to have radar altimeters, but anything Kerballed already has it, from launch 0.

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22 minutes ago, Onigato said:

But the radar altimeter is available inside the Mk-I Command Pod, from the moment you start a career. We're doing SPACE!, a certain level of base technology is assumed. Heck, without some serious finagling, every aeroplane made is a jet, well past the WWII tech level. All we're asking for is the ability to see radar altimetry outside of IVA. I can understand having an unlock or at least a component for probes to have radar altimeters, but anything Kerballed already has it, from launch 0.

Those are fair arguments.  I just like having unlocks.  Something to work towards.  

But either way, clicking the altimeter should switch between AGL and ASL. 

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Landing pods is one one activity I frequently have problems with. I'm using a PS4 and I have Increased my UI to 110% because reasons, now the Nav-Ball can be in the way for touchdown. This means that landing requires balancing camera angles as well as flying the pod.

For landing, I'd really like to have some Above Ground Level (AGL) data, instead of the current Above Sea Level (ASL) readings.

I'd rather ditch the heavy and power hungry radar, and use a lightweight laser range-finder, or upgrade to a combination of the two.

Either way, and whatever you call it, it would be nice to have an altitude readout on the screen.

 

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13 hours ago, GrouchyDevotee said:

Landing pods is one one activity I frequently have problems with. I'm using a PS4 and I have Increased my UI to 110% because reasons, now the Nav-Ball can be in the way for touchdown. This means that landing requires balancing camera angles as well as flying the pod.

For landing, I'd really like to have some Above Ground Level (AGL) data, instead of the current Above Sea Level (ASL) readings.

I'd rather ditch the heavy and power hungry radar, and use a lightweight laser range-finder, or upgrade to a combination of the two.

Either way, and whatever you call it, it would be nice to have an altitude readout on the screen.

 

The data is already available ingame, it's just not available to the stock user.  So it wouldn't take a pod or module to use it, unless that's the way they went. 

PC version the Navball is toggleable.  You can lower it off your screen, is that an option for you? 

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35 minutes ago, Gargamel said:

 

 

36 minutes ago, Gargamel said:

PC version the Navball is toggleable

It can be toggled in the PS4 version as well, but doing that means there is no speed indication so it's not any easier for landing,

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It should switch automatically based on navball mode. Orbit is sea level. Surface, radar. Target, distance to target.

The color should change so you can tell instantly which it is now, and you should be able to click it to override it, and click some button to go back to automatic mode.

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40 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

It should switch automatically based on navball mode. Orbit is sea level. Surface, radar. Target, distance to target.

This. This is perfect.

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There's a mod that does exactly this, and using it makes landing way easier. I guess they won't implement it because it would lower the challenge? There is something to be said for eyeballing everything and getting it right.

But, seeing as there is not scientific reason for the extra difficulty, they should definitely implement it.

Also, using the shadow to land mostly removes any challenge of not knowing your ground altitude. Unfortunately, running ksp on a potato means no shadows so the stock game becomes more difficult simply due to poor hardware. Having an altimeter would fix this (fixing my good computer would too).

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The shadow to land only works if you are landing in sunlight too. Darkside, no shadows. Now, I personally love KER, and always have it sitting somewhere with an "Altitude above Terrain" HUD somewhere, but it's technically stock accessible.

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On 3/31/2018 at 10:40 PM, Gargamel said:

Those are fair arguments.  I just like having unlocks.  Something to work towards.  

Having unlocks for the sake of having unlocks isn't always the best idea.  Gameplay and player requirements should always be taken into consideration.  I feel that this is basic information for craft flight.  Denying the player of it simply to add another form of player progression doesn't sit well with me.

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On 4/3/2018 at 12:01 PM, 5thHorseman said:

It should switch automatically based on navball mode. Orbit is sea level. Surface, radar. Target, distance to target.

Problem with this is that upper and lower atmosphere is determined by ASL, not AGL.   And since Vertical speed indicator is most likely tied to the altitude inidicator, trying to maintain level (0 vert speed) flight would become a nightmare, as not all planes have the same AoA for level flight. 

So for the science that requires upper v lower, it would be a pain to collect these if you are just able to maintain level flight over the limit, but had no idea what level flight is.  You'd end up porpoising over the threshold, and possible miss your biome. 

But as you said, a manual override would be necessary.   But I'd prefer it if it wasn't automatic. 

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@Gargamel makes a good point above.

But the game 'knows' both AGL and ASL measurements anyway, so i don't see it being a problem to have the vertical speed indicator tied to the ASL whilst displaying the AGL in the display.  If it is then just have the option to show both.

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Real-time telemetry is always a benefit to mobile design. The more data the merrier, in fact. Then again, I would love me some "MOAR UI!" I'll spare you all that though...

Not sure about others, but I don't often need sea level... just radar. I have to have a mod [KER] honestly, but anyway. I should hope most know how RADAR works.... and that the signal can and will be reflected by water. What difference would it make to have only that? Well... then we might need SONAR too, for all the divers, boats and hydros out there, considering you'd drain all your EC trying to ping the sea floor beyond a certain depth and clarity.
Oh, and right, I hear you challenge-chasers striving to make them unlocks... What? First launch of your career, you get an altimeter for both ASL and RADAR height... I mean, I guess they could be re-worked as individual parts. There is a fly-by-wire already, after all. It would make sense to have such devices [RADAR/SONAR] produced via the R&D department right? But that dreadful word! "Re-worked!" *GASP!*:0.0: 

 

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I know this thread is quite old, as that orange bar tells me, but.. Yeah I checked before making a new one.
Now that we're getting GUI improvements, you know, stage indicator in maneuvers, all that stuff, that one should be next IMHO. And since we are able to determine distance from the ground in IVA (even though that analog display confuses me) we could get the same for any operable junk, like if the probe core had it installed.

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Indeed a 1.6-worthy improvement. A clickable altimeter with different modes would be awesome, and would require no new UI real estate. Sounds like lots of return for little investment.

Pretty please add a depth-under-the-keel mode too? Many happy feels would ensue.

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Both described versions are already there as mods :)

the third one also recalculate AGL as the distance from the bottom of your vessel to the ground below you.
[dramatic drum roll] which approach do you want in the stock?

 

And I personally still find landing with eyes' lurking on the top-bottom-top-bottom of the screen not really convenient, so

My "AGL" also show Above Bottom Level when you under -20, including "landed on a bottom of an ocean" case.  (even KER doesn't get it, until they merge my PR)

Spoiler

3ATFTVD.jpg       RHVUt9C.jpg

 

Edited by flart

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