Sign in to follow this  
Numerlor

Made a table for wing effectiveness [WIP]

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

Haven't thought up how to add in drag yet because it's nearly midnight so if you have any good ideas tell me

Mass and wing area info is from parts list on the wiki that looked a bit old so correct me if you see any mistakes

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Q5oJepUb7heURmJBsrK5-XadQA-d9RpjfKAvu3IHZLo/edit?usp=sharin
 

Name Mass (t) Wing area Control Surface % Control surface area Wing area/mass
Wing Connector Type A 0,2 2 0% 0 10
Wing Connector Type B 0,2 2 0% 0 10
Wing Connector Type C 0,1 1 0% 0 10
Wing Connector Type D 0,05 0,5 0% 0 10
Wing Connector Type E 0,05 0,5 0% 0 10
Delta Wing 0,2 2 0% 0 10
Small Delta Wing 0,05 0,5 0% 0 10
Wing Strake 0,05 0,5 0% 0 10
Structural Wing Type A 0,1 1 0% 0 10
Structural Wing Type B 0,1 1 0% 0 10
Structural Wing Type C 0,05 0,5 0% 0 10
Structural Wing Type D 0,025 0,25 0% 0 10
Swept Wing Type A 0,113 1,13 0% 0 10
Swept Wing Type B 0,226 2,26 0% 0 10
Basic Fin 0,01 0,12 0% 0 12
AV-T1 Winglet 0,037 0,37 0% 0 10
Swept Wings 0,275 1,37 0% 0 4,981818182
FAT-455 Aeroplane Main Wing 0,78 7,8 0% 0 10
Big-S Wing Strake 0,1 1 0% 0 10
Big-S Delta Wing 0,5 5 0% 0 10
AV-R8 Winglet 0,1 0,5 95% 0,475 5
Standard Canard 0,1 0,5 100% 0,5 5
Advanced Canard 0,08 0,4 100% 0,4 5
Delta-Deluxe Winglet 0,078 0,65 20% 0,13 8,333333333
Tail Fin 0,125 0,61 100% 0,61 4,88
FAT-455 Aeroplane Tail Fin 0,36 2,69 37% 0,9953 7,472222222
Big-S Spaceplane Tail Fin 0,45 3,49 29% 1,0121 7,755555556
Elevon 1 0,05 0,25 100% 0,25 5
Elevon 2 0,06 0,3 100% 0,3 5
Elevon 3 0,08 0,42 100% 0,42 5,25
Elevon 4 0,04 0,18 100% 0,18 4,5
Elevon 5 0,08 0,4 100% 0,4 5
Big-S Elevon 1 0,15 0,77 100% 0,77 5,133333333
Big-S Elevon 2 0,23 1,16 100% 1,16 5,043478261
FAT-445 Aeroplane Control Surface 0,17 0,86 100% 0,86 5,058823529

 

Edited by Numerlor
  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Numerlor said:

Basic Fin 0,01 0,12 0% 0 12

That's very interesting...... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Fun fact: "Swept wings" is a tailfin (according to its placement in the data) which is why it has number more consistent with tail fins. Though since it's fixed it should use L/M ratio of 10.

There's one other interesting property: that is "max deflection", when combined with the control surface area it determines the amount of leverage the winglet/elevon can apply. Cost is also a useful property for career.

The BigS wing and strake are the most OP wings because they have the same lift and drag as other wings of the same weight, but they have integrated fuel storage. But they're also really expensive.

In actual flight testing all wings of the same weight perform within half a percent of each other in terms of life and drag (this is curious because in the data there are actually some drag parameters which are set differently, but they must be ignored but the aero model).

Edited by blakemw

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, blakemw said:

There's one other interesting property: that is "max deflection", when combined with the control surface area it determines the amount of leverage the winglet/elevon can apply. Cost is also a useful property for career.

Max deflection does not come free.     The higher the angle of attack of the control surface, the more drag it produces.      

Eg.  Airplane is at 3 degrees angle of attack

Wing is mounted to fuselage with 5 degrees of incidence 

Aileron on wing deflects 10 degrees

That aileron is now at 3 + 5 + 10 = 18 degrees

At small angles, you get mostly lift, but after a point lift starts to max out but drag goes up exponentially.

This is especially important with regard to ailerons because the drag at the wingtip torques the nose away from the direction you're trying to turn in (adverse yaw/sideslip).

Of course, you can take a surface with a low max deflection angle and crank its "authority limiter" slider up to 150% if you want to turn it into a highly deflecting one,  or take a highly deflecting surface and turn the authority right down.

I love Big S wing strakes,  i try to keep all my fuel there if  i can.

Orange tank to orbit on a really dinky liquid fuel lifter - 

...and yes,  if your computer can bear the part count,  don't use real tail fins,  mount big S strakes vertically like in the above example then put elevons on the end for the active part of rudder functions.

Here's another convert to the Way of the Big S Strake p

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, AeroGav said:

Max deflection does not come free.     The higher the angle of attack of the control surface, the more drag it produces.      

Eg.  Airplane is at 3 degrees angle of attack

Wing is mounted to fuselage with 5 degrees of incidence 

Aileron on wing deflects 10 degrees

That aileron is now at 3 + 5 + 10 = 18 degrees

At small angles, you get mostly lift, but after a point lift starts to max out but drag goes up exponentially.

This is especially important with regard to ailerons because the drag at the wingtip torques the nose away from the direction you're trying to turn in (adverse yaw/sideslip).

 

3

Yep, they do create a significant amount of drag. Of course that's often not a serious issue: when you DO need max deflection is probably at low speeds (unless your goal is to undergo midair RUD) and drag is basically nothing at low speeds.

An example of when I like high deflection is when I'm using steerable tail fins to correct a rocket's trajectory in case of emergency (i.e. playing hard career, no reverts): ideally the rocket is following an ideal gravity turn and so the fins have zero angle of attack, but if it the rocket is tipping too slowly or too fast it might need to be rather forcefully corrected and then maximum leverage is good drag be damned - it's only for emergency anyway and otherwise less drag and less weight is all good. Another example is spaceplanes with big engines and small wings which might need a large amount of pitch to successfully not go off the end of the runway and into the ocean (basically using the engines to help counteract gravity!), but once they get up to supersonic speeds the little wings are providing enough lift and the control surfaces need virtually no deflection. The final example is when I'm flying planes on that acursed planet Duna because apparently I'm masochistic, when landing a plane on Duna and getting it to stay on the ground both more downforce and more drag is highly desirable, so maximum deflection is only good (and in fact when I've looked out the window of airliners, the spoilers they deploy on landing seem to have a very high deflection, even more than you can get in KSP with any part).

Edited by blakemw

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Added in Technology level and Cost. Tried adding comparable performance only from numbers but I still have no idea how to calculate drag. Wondering if adding up wings to a certain wing area value (let's say 10) and noting the takeoff speed would be useful. For example, using 10 Wing connectors type C and 2 Big-S delta wings and noting takeoff speed of ~65m/s and ~70m/s. The problem is that there are too many variables at play and some wings can't be properly stacked to any useful value (FAT Main wing for example), wondered if tweakscaleupscales/downscales aerodynamics properly

Edited by Numerlor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this