[1.8.1 - 1.12.2] KSP Interstellar Extended 1.29.5 Release Thread

[FreeThinker]

 what about spin polorized D-He3, same problem?

Edited May 26, 2020 by FreeThinker

[AntaresMC]

1 hour ago, FreeThinker said:

Ok, so spin pol D-T  won't work in a MCF, what about a Z-Pinch or ICF?

No fusion confinement will work with spin pol

Requires a lotta stability, so Zpinch out. Requires time so IC out. Requires really precise mag fields so MC out. As MC and IC are out, MIC and MTC are also out. Thats why its considered unobtanium by many.

It's its own type of confinement that uses the same magnetic field to align the spins to prevent it from going out. Also is a slow type of fusion so it isnt very hot and waste a lot of energy in housekeeping and confinement (the mag fields are hundreds, easily thousands of teslas). 

[FreeThinker]

5 minutes ago, AntaresMC said:

No fusion confinement will work with spin pol

Requires a lotta stability, so Zpinch out. Requires time so IC out. Requires really precise mag fields so MC out. As MC and IC are out, MIC and MTC are also out. Thats why its considered unobtanium by many.

It's its own type of confinement that uses the same magnetic field to align the spins to prevent it from going out. Also is a slow type of fusion so it isnt very hot and waste a lot of energy in housekeeping and confinement (the mag fields are hundreds, easily thousands of teslas). 

what if we could temporaily shield the reaction chamber from magnetic fields, quicky spin polorize the fuel, create the fusion reaction and lift the magnetic field to redirect the charged particles and repeat. The fusion equivalent of a SLR

Edited May 26, 2020 by FreeThinker

[AntaresMC]

4 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

 what about spin polorized D-He3, same problem?

what if we could temporaily shield the reaction chamber from magnetic fields, spin polorize the fuel, create the fusion reaction and lift the magnetic field to redirect the charged particles. the fusion equivalent of a SLR

Spin pol He3 is useless, even stupid. YOU HAVE NO NEUTRONS TO TAME! 

And spin polarization goes away quickly with heat, not something fusion is really free of. You can use the neutrons for thrust and the CP go in the other direction, use a magnetic mirror or a CP converter, whats the problem?

If you get the electricity is really efficient, and quite a lotta power (around 15% of the fusion output) but you can only afterburn if redirect them, since neutrons only interact to fVck, will not heat propellant.

Also the mag field to spin polarize are so strong they will maglev no problem!

Edited May 26, 2020 by AntaresMC

[FreeThinker]

4 minutes ago, AntaresMC said:

Spin pol He3 is useless, even stupid. YOU HAVE NO NEUTRONS TO TAME!

Well there are those nasty D-D site reactions. Perhaps if you can do some clever tricks you can pull it off

Edited May 26, 2020 by FreeThinker

[AntaresMC]

1 minute ago, FreeThinker said:

Well there are those nasty D-D site reactions. Perhaps if you can do some clever tricks you can pull it off

D-T

Edited May 26, 2020 by AntaresMC

[FreeThinker]

what if you could control the exact fusion molecules, for example crash He3 and D molecules at an exact power level on each-other and prevent D-D site reactions

Edited May 26, 2020 by FreeThinker

[AntaresMC]

3 minutes ago, FreeThinker said:

what if you could control the exact fusion molecules, for example crash He3 and D molecules at an exact power level on each-other and prevent D-D site reactions

What the fVck I havent seen that kinda unobtanium never outside anime!

No, but the point is to use tne neutons!!

I cant see that awfull lot of processing power outside a mini matrioshka brain, and that kinda not pays for an extra 1% eff

Edited May 26, 2020 by AntaresMC

[FreeThinker]

9 minutes ago, AntaresMC said:

What the fVck I havent seen that kinda unobtanium never outside anime!

No, but the point is to use tne neutons!!

Well Tri Alpha Fusion get pretty close to having a controlled reaction

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by FreeThinker

[AntaresMC]

1 minute ago, FreeThinker said:

Well Tri Alpha Fusion get pretty close to having a controlled reaction

 

But thats a beam of single element (He) not moving individual atoms to pinpoint others. And they control the reaction by aplaying heat and pressure with the fuel beams, not moving the athoms.

[FreeThinker]

ok

But On the Wiki of Tri Alpha they mention Spin polarization

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAE_Technologies

Quote

The spin polarization enhances the fusion cross section by a factor of 1.6 for ¹¹B.^[57] A further increase in Q should result from the nuclear quadrupole moment of ¹¹B.^[45] And another increase in Q may also result from the mechanism allowing the production of a secondary high-energy α-particle.^[23][54][55]

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by FreeThinker

[AntaresMC]

5 minutes ago, FreeThinker said:

ok

But On the Wiki of Tri Alpha they mention Spin polarization

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAE_Technologies

 

This is because depending on the angle, H-B gives differen results, usually gives He, sometimes C12 and very rarely C11+neutron. A bit of spin pol helps reduce the chance of the last, but it isnt aligning the spins perfectly so you have a neutron monodirectional beam... And H-B is fission most the time, Id love if it was called correctly

Edited May 26, 2020 by AntaresMC

[FreeThinker]

5 minutes ago, AntaresMC said:

This is because depending on the angle, H-B gives differen results, usually gives He, sometimes C12 and very rarely C11+neutron. A bit of spin pol helps reduce the chance of the last, but it isnt aligning the spins perfectly so you have a neutron monodirectional beam...

Yes but apparently they still manage to apply some spin polarization in a fusion engine, perhaps there is still hope for meaningful Spin pol D-T fusion, perhaps not an engine but only for power production making it still very useful

Edited May 26, 2020 by FreeThinker

[AntaresMC]

14 minutes ago, FreeThinker said:

Yes but apparently they still manage to apply some spin polarization in a fusion engine, perhaps there is still hope for meaningful Spin pol D-T fusion, perhaps not an engine but only for power production making it still very useful

NO spin pol gives the same energy, makes a horrible logistic challenge put several near each other, are size limite, the magnets eat a lot of powe, are fuel flow limited and harder to ignite! Ah, and last a life to burn their fuel

The only thing you could use spin pol is if you need a tight beam of neutrons and can only see 3 things:

A weapon

A rocket

A neutronium factory

Edited May 26, 2020 by AntaresMC

[FreeThinker]

13 minutes ago, AntaresMC said:

NO spin pol gives the same energy, makes a horrible logistic challenge put several near each other, are size limite, the magnets eat a lot of powe, are fuel flow limited and harder to ignite! Ah, and last a life to burn their fuel

The only thing you could use spin pol is if you need a tight beam of neutrons and can only see 3 things:

A weapon

A rocket

A neutronium factory

Ok, I looked around and found this document

https://www.oxfordneutronschool.org/2011/lectures/osns_stewart_polarised_2011.pdf

It made me think, Would it be possible to polarize neutrons so we can partialy direct them with a polorized neutron mirror in a desired direction to create thrust?

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by FreeThinker

[DJPhantom]

Hi, is there any known conflicts with usi kolonization? i have a colony on laythe made with usi but when i have kspie installed whenever  i try to load that vessel it just crashes to desktop. any help is very appreciated

Edited May 26, 2020 by DJPhantom
typo

[AntaresMC]

16 hours ago, DJPhantom said:

Hi, is there any known conflicts with usi kolonization? i have a colony on laythe when is have kspie installed whenever  i try to load that vessel it just crashes to desktop. any help is very appreciated

I use both and have found annoying fuel differences (#LF=H2) awfull load times and a clear abscence of balance in the com tech tree, but nothing more... actually really bizzare things, but theyre off topic so Ill let them for another post

Have you tried checking for faulty parts or another mods that it uses? Should send the error msg, I dont know programming but Im sure someone will help

16 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

Ok, I looked around and found this document

https://www.oxfordneutronschool.org/2011/lectures/osns_stewart_polarised_2011.pdf

It made me think, Would it be possible to polarize neutrons so we can partialy direct them with a polorized neutron mirror in a desired direction to create thrust?

 

You could but how do you polarize neutrons? Mag fieldz dont work and a neutron mirror takes a good chunk of the heat to itslelf... And why? Sipin pol fusion gn give you a tight beam, just dont stop it and youve got thrust.

What do you think?

Sorry, Its sideways

There has to be some sphere of influence where you cant place any other one, plasma engine, mag nozzle or MCR

Forgot it, 1.25m, can be scaled up with upgrades until 2.5. When you unlock gets 1/2 Isp (is easier polarize in 1 axis than 1/2) and the other 1/2 is waste heat. Thrust power of around a MW when fully upgraded. Real heavy for its size, laughable TWR. Around 10N would be optimistic, but if you do what Squad with Iond drive (1/2 Isp, 1000×thrust) may be fine, and you can afterburn (only 15% of Tp is afterburnable, and its the same 15%that gives electricity). Id put it with the Discovery in tech tree. Remove SpinPol fusion mode.

In the future you could add neutronium, they are related as you need a tight dense neutron beam to produce it.

Also you can flip polarization and have a super dupper neutro-beam to breed a lot of D or T, this can run on cheaper Li7 and H.

And note that the penning trap magnet is pushing it, this is because if not they go forward. The maglev magnet is inverted so it pulls to spaghettify it and counter the mushrooming effect the penning would make.

Edited May 27, 2020 by AntaresMC

[AntaresMC]

20 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

No It will just become self sustaining and produce some excess power to run onboard systems.Technically this allows you you to charge the engine super capacitors using PV cells , perform a  brachistochrone maneuver before you can use solar cells again

Ah, and how I said: 

Around the size of old OPdalus, self charging, can generate extra electricity by brayton or MHD with 1/2 eff if afterburned, lighter than old OPdalus Isp up to 1.5Ms if He+D-He3, if you wanna add more fuels, go ahead, but they're all gonna be worse.

The twisted mag field works by letting come in plasma in a straight line, the mag field isnt paralel so the plasma twists, then reverse current and the plasma is backon track (going to the sides, but fine), and you've got some power in the way without reducing the speed towards the dome nozzle that channel it back, taking also a bit of energy and then reflecting it back to generate an extra bit of trust. With that trick you can make the plasma move sideways and thake that sideways power via MHD without losing forward move (ok, a bit of heat because the expansion, thermodynamics suck, but it was wasted anyway, so its fine).

You also take power via Li6 fission in the coolant, PVs from fusion blackbody and white hot ablator and T decay. The He can run a mini tri-alpha reactor, mini muon cat one or be dumped as free afterburner fuel. I like the mini tri He the most, but muon cat is less heaty and free thrust is always welcome!

Warning: This is very rad hard if ablator isn used, please take an engineer, a robotic print and enough graphite for weeks... If not, use the time warp expoloit or take a LOT of radiators!

 Also, maximizing the surface area of a fuel cell you can make it (almost) as fast as a capacitator. mH cells are really inneficient, but really fast and dense as them alone... (#addMetastableFuels!)

Edit: may put U233 mixed with the Li6H coolant (forgot to say that, most n go to Li6, but a small number dont fisse and get deflected. There is H to deflect back and have a small chance of absorbing and taking a D for free), this allows to make easy neutrons exactly where you need, and as they are a bit scarce (only about .05%, and we start with ~1% (we are fusing a few Kg/s, its enough, but...) should reach the shield) this should accelerate He3 and D breeding.

Edited May 27, 2020 by AntaresMC

[AntaresMC]

21 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

Yes it is situational, but it is certainly possible, and I like options. So now we have an upper limit of 36000s, a default of 12000s, but what would be the lower limit? 6000s?

I misunderstood, sorry.

No, at 3.75m upper limit is 12000, but can improve if pulsed and can reduce by adding more fuel flow (not H, but fusion fuel) until the plasma gets so cold its not sustainable and have to pulse, negating thrust increase, or adding H when alredy capped until run outta Isp. In theory there is no limit but if you double Isp the WasteHeat quadruples. If you increase thrust fuel comsuption AND reduce Isp, so its always a loss exponentially from the base, and you cant run outta Isp nor thrust. The more radiators you add the  smaller is the exponent, so you can shift gears more drastically. If you improve thrust power (aka size) the base gets bigger in the first place so you can move the thrust/Isp balance more. If dont have enough fuel, you can add H2 at the expense of electric power generation (1w goes to H, 1w doesnt go to power), but still got the problem of running out of Isp. So in theory an infinetly big engine with infinite radiators would be able to shif gears to infinity (in reality not because gets a point where MCF gets capped). 36000s BASE is for the 10m variant (a bit less, but rounding FTW!) Base=max if dont pulse (a lotta pulses per sec, so you can just lower thust and you are fine).

Edited May 27, 2020 by AntaresMC

[AntaresMC]

20 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

Useless you say, it still currently the easiest achievable fusion mode (until we master UDD fusion).  Yes it highly neutronic but can be usefull at medium isp levels. ALso because it reacts so easily it will remain the most powerfull fusion fuel were maximum raw power output is required. 

Id love to talk abou dD (I think degenerate deuterium is more informative, and shorter to write)

1st) dD has a >1eV Lawson, BUT creating it in the first place is more energy costly than even H-H or H-B (and thats a lot to say)

2nd) did you know its possible to create every degenerate element? This includes UD He3, that is so unstable that would auto explode in seconds! And other bizarre things like iron fusion, that is possible in white dwarves if heated enough (may be a reason why they can collapse in magnetars when collision).

3rd) WHEN THE HELL DO YOU WANNA ADD DEGENERATE MATTER!!? Yea, its not as famous as fusion or antimatter, but deserves love, and its so useful... its like a happy middle between the two, AM is really underpowered in KSPIE, like an order of mzgnitude less than its potential, looks like an early technology that hasnt evolved enogh... I think pressurized degenerate fusion fuels (can be even stable with active support and cryo cooling) and then neutronium would easily fill the gap. Ultimately quark matter could be a direct competence to antimatter... I only let it fall...

Edited May 27, 2020 by AntaresMC

[FreeThinker]

1 hour ago, AntaresMC said:

I misunderstood, sorry.

No, at 3.75m upper limit is 12000, but can improve if pulsed and can reduce by adding more fuel flow (not H, but fusion fuel) until the plasma gets so cold its not sustainable and have to pulse, negating thrust increase, or adding H when alredy capped until run outta Isp. In theory there is no limit but if you double Isp the WasteHeat quadruples. If you increase thrust fuel comsuption AND reduce Isp, so its always a loss exponentially from the base, and you cant run outta Isp nor thrust. The more radiators you add the  smaller is the exponent, so you can shift gears more drastically. If you improve thrust power (aka size) the base gets bigger in the first place so you can move the thrust/Isp balance more. If dont have enough fuel, you can add H2 at the expense of electric power generation (1w goes to H, 1w doesnt go to power), but still got the problem of running out of Isp.

Alright, so the MCR core temperture should based on reactor size and engine wasteheat should be based exponential on isp gear (where base would be gear 1). From a balance point of view would be perfect as it allows player to overdrive the  engine for higher isp at the expanse of more mass for radiators. Lowering isp could be acieved at at the cost of higher power cost, but when halved would it double or quadruple?

Edited May 27, 2020 by FreeThinker

[AntaresMC]

4 minutes ago, FreeThinker said:

Alright, so the MCR core temperture should based on size and engine wasteheat should be based exponential on isp gear (where base would be gear 1). From a balance point of view would be perfect as it allows player to overdrive the  engine for higher isp at the expanse of more mass for radiators. Lowering isp would logicaly require more power right due to higher presures right?

Right, also the more WasteHeat the engine has, the more difficult is to maintain fusion, as hotter magnets go worse.

When I propose something I do from a gameplay perspective, as I dont play a perfect sim nor RO. I believe realism is good if 100%, if not, as much as dont affect (#LF=H2). The thing is that Im a nerd and try design basing on science for fun!

Edit: And not only core temp but thrust power as well!

Edited May 27, 2020 by AntaresMC

[FreeThinker]

1 hour ago, AntaresMC said:

.36000s BASE is for the 10m variant (a bit less, but rounding FTW!) Base=max if dont pulse (a lotta pulses per sec, so you can just lower thust and you are fine).

To be clear, the KSPIE Discovery has diameter of 5m, or are you refering to its length?

[AntaresMC]

11 minutes ago, FreeThinker said:

Lowering isp would logicaly require more power right due to higher presures right?

Yes but no.

Yes, but plasma can be cooler and fusion rate is higher so yes, uses more power but produces more power. Dont know if cancels out, but improving Isp reduces power output as pulses, so lets say improving thrust (with fuel, not H) improves power output in a log fashion (that kninda makes sense)

4 minutes ago, FreeThinker said:

To be clear, the KSPIE Discovery has diameter of 5m, or are you refering to its length?

In TweakScale it says 3.75 (Im in an old version of a few months ago, mabe is 1.9 incompatibility). And Im referring to the real one that around 10×10×15m plus nozzle

Also 3.75 base looks more sensible since you want upgrades to make it bigger, you dont miniaturize an engine that gets worse smaller

Edited May 27, 2020 by AntaresMC

[FreeThinker]

1 minute ago, AntaresMC said:

Yes but no.

Yes, but plasma can be cooler and fusion rate is higher so yes, uses more power but produces more power. Dont know if cancels out, but improving Isp reduces power output as pulses, so lets say improving thrust (with fuel, not H) improves power output in a log fashion (that kninda makes sense)

Well I currently do not have power production on the Plasma nozzle (only on the Deadalus and Z-Pinch) but think it would be an interesting option.