JadeOfMaar

[1.8.x] OPT Reconfig v1.9.2 & OPT Legacy 1.6.2 [Feb 11, 2020]

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Thanks so much!

So I have another question: OPT_Space_Plane-v2.0.1.zip contains an old version of the Firespitter DLL.  I remember it used to be a requirement for Firespitter to be installed... should we just get the current KSP-1.7.3-compatible version of Firespitter and install the DLL only right over that old bundled one?

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@grisby_2133 Delete the Firespitter bundle from your OPT download. After all, that download is for KSP 1.3.0. KSP has had at least 3 large enough changes since, which will break plugin mods. If you use OPT Reconfig, feel free to delete and forget Firespitter altogether, as OPT Reconfig's purpose is to remove OPT's dependency on Firespitter. Fuel and mesh switching is done through B9 Part Switch now.

@Arabian_Shadows If you're able to get KSP to finish starting up and OPT parts are missing then you've installed OPT wrong. If you're looking for certain OPT parts from way back then those simply no longer are around.

Edited by JadeOfMaar

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@JadeOfMaar I tried your Avatar Revival Shuttle. The Com seems to be too far in front of Col. i am not ablle to takeoff even at 300 m/s. i have faced similar issues with my other crafts where slight change in com col in sph results in a butterfly effect. some planes are stable at takeoff whille others are stable at landing, none are quite right. i have followed ssto plane design guides but somehow this seems to be over me. If it is Possible for you to help, can i send the craft files ?

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@papasid If a plane can't liftoff at 300m/s then you're doing something very, very wrong or your KSP is broken, or you're using FAR. The OPT Legacy wings don't have FAR settings so they're useless to you.

Craft files would be nice so I can see if there's a serious design problem. If you have a very heavily modded install, please take the time to create a new install with just OPT and its associated mods (B9PS, CRP) and use the Ore tanks to create a dummy weight version of your payload. That makes it easier for both of us to diagnose your craft.

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5 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

@papasid If a plane can't liftoff at 300m/s then you're doing something very, very wrong or your KSP is broken, or you're using FAR. The OPT Legacy wings don't have FAR settings so they're useless to you.

Craft files would be nice so I can see if there's a serious design problem. If you have a very heavily modded install, please take the time to create a new install with just OPT and its associated mods (B9PS, CRP) and use the Ore tanks to create a dummy weight version of your payload. That makes it easier for both of us to diagnose your craft.

 thank you, i have been learning the design of ssto's but there seems to be a very steep learning curve. i saw your post where you mentioned that you use Stockalike Com and Col Replacement, is that recommended for designing opt planes?

I generally design longer crafts with 3-4 cargo bays, however your design has made me rethink that those designs might not be feasible. Plus, my designs always suck at rolls, they take forever.Here are the craft files. https://drive.google.com/open?id=17UYdSjw0WjWsA7qy8mQI3yIFLzIfmxYc

I Don't use FAR or any other mods that conflict with opt just the dependencies.

I Also got the Revival Craft working, takeoff is still an issue but i am thinking of attaching some boosters at +AoA to the side of wings.

Since the whole incompatibility thing with firespitter, i cant use mechjeb and have been using atmospheric autopilot. AA seems better than mechjeb to me.

Thanks for helping out a noob. cheers!!!

Edited by papasid

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3 hours ago, papasid said:

 thank you, i have been learning the design of ssto's but there seems to be a very steep learning curve. i saw your post where you mentioned that you use Stockalike Com and Col Replacement, is that recommended for designing opt planes?

I generally design longer crafts with 3-4 cargo bays, however your design has made me rethink that those designs might not be feasible. Plus, my designs always suck at rolls, they take forever.Here are the craft files. https://drive.google.com/open?id=17UYdSjw0WjWsA7qy8mQI3yIFLzIfmxYc

I Don't use FAR or any other mods that conflict with opt just the dependencies.

I Also got the Revival Craft working, takeoff is still an issue but i am thinking of attaching some boosters at +AoA to the side of wings.

Since the whole incompatibility thing with firespitter, i cant use mechjeb and have been using atmospheric autopilot. AA seems better than mechjeb to me.

Thanks for helping out a noob. cheers!!!

Do you have any of the neat future mods or KSPI? I really want to say its just KSPI, but I do know that I had issues until I updated KSPI. Although that was an issue with parts being too buoyant to sink in the water when using WBI Guppy to make subs

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4 hours ago, Azic Minar said:

Do you have any of the neat future mods or KSPI? I really want to say its just KSPI, but I do know that I had issues until I updated KSPI. Although that was an issue with parts being too buoyant to sink in the water when using WBI Guppy to make subs

No, i dont use that but i have near future props. i have uploaded my ckan modlist in the same gdrive folder. i started with just opt legacy and config. then i added opt main and then other mods. performance of aircraft has been similar. i didnt notice any change in flight behaviour. the best result i could get out were from stail class drone crafts.

Edited by papasid

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4 hours ago, Azic Minar said:

Do you have any of the neat future mods or KSPI? I really want to say its just KSPI, but I do know that I had issues until I updated KSPI. Although that was an issue with parts being too buoyant to sink in the water when using WBI Guppy to make subs

no, i dont have that although i have near future props. i started with just opt legacy and reconfig. then added opt main and others. didnt notice any change in flight model.

my modlist is available in the same gdrive folder.

Cheers!!!

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@papasid The problem is that you're doing things wrong. There's no problem with KSP:

  1. Your planes are designed so the CoL is directly on the CoM. Don't do this for airliners, cargo planes or spaceplanes. It's only fine for small stunt planes, fighter planes, and helicopters imo. Always leave some room behind the CoM for flight stability and for the plane to have some resistance easily against flipping over. The CoL marker shown in stock can be very inaccurate at times. Always expect it to move forward or backward by maybe 1.25m. (For that reason, mods like CorrectCoL exist, however, you mostly don't need to get such mods.)
  2. Related: You put too much of the fuel mass towards the back. When the fuel runs low, the CoM will move behind the CoL and the plane will become flip-happy. Design your plane so that the CoM is in or near the center of the cargo area and that it barely moves when fully fueled and when empty. Once that's done, there will no longer be the danger that the payload will move the CoM far out of place and you'll have much less need to move your wheels when you insert different payloads.
  3. Wheels. Always use large(r) wheels for the back of your aircraft. This is so they better support a large plane's weight and so there's sufficient ground clearance for the plane's rear at liftoff or touchdown. The "main gear" as these rear wheels are called, must always be immediately behind the CoM. This is to enable the plane to pivot on them and lift its nose for liftoff. The main reason your planes can't liftoff is that you have your wheels very far back. See how a see-saw or a pair of scales pivots about their center. What you're doing is giving yourself, what I call, the "table legs" problem. Once you do wheels corectly, you won't need the SRBs anymore and you can liftoff at normal speeds like 60 ~ 90m/s
    • The moment you attach something that's meant to fall off when it doesn't work anymore (the SRBs for example) your plane stops being an SSTO.
    • One of your planes has 3 front wheels in a row along the long axis of the plane. Don't do that. That just looks too silly and is entirely impractical. If you really need to add strength to your front wheels (you won't until you start building kiloton crafts), place them in a pair in mirror symmetry and very close together.
  4. You don't know how to use the engines. Some of your planes have WarpJets on them but no Power Spheres to meet their ElectricCharge demands. One of your planes has 4 completely different engines attached. Each of these has different fuel needs, different performances at any speed and altitude, and they have efficiency ratings that vary wildly. These factors can make it impossible to anticipate how much of each fuel to bring or not bring for different situations, and make it so that more of your engines become dead weight when they're no longer in the situation where they work well or work at all.

All of your planes will be fine once you grasp these things.

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On 10/22/2019 at 9:21 PM, JadeOfMaar said:

@papasid The problem is that you're doing things wrong. There's no problem with KSP:

  1. Your planes are designed so the CoL is directly on the CoM. Don't do this for airliners, cargo planes or spaceplanes. It's only fine for small stunt planes, fighter planes, and helicopters imo. Always leave some room behind the CoM for flight stability and for the plane to have some resistance easily against flipping over. The CoL marker shown in stock can be very inaccurate at times. Always expect it to move forward or backward by maybe 1.25m. (For that reason, mods like CorrectCoL exist, however, you mostly don't need to get such mods.)
  2. Related: You put too much of the fuel mass towards the back. When the fuel runs low, the CoM will move behind the CoL and the plane will become flip-happy. Design your plane so that the CoM is in or near the center of the cargo area and that it barely moves when fully fueled and when empty. Once that's done, there will no longer be the danger that the payload will move the CoM far out of place and you'll have much less need to move your wheels when you insert different payloads.
  3. Wheels. Always use large(r) wheels for the back of your aircraft. This is so they better support a large plane's weight and so there's sufficient ground clearance for the plane's rear at liftoff or touchdown. The "main gear" as these rear wheels are called, must always be immediately behind the CoM. This is to enable the plane to pivot on them and lift its nose for liftoff. The main reason your planes can't liftoff is that you have your wheels very far back. See how a see-saw or a pair of scales pivots about their center. What you're doing is giving yourself, what I call, the "table legs" problem. Once you do wheels corectly, you won't need the SRBs anymore and you can liftoff at normal speeds like 60 ~ 90m/s
    • The moment you attach something that's meant to fall off when it doesn't work anymore (the SRBs for example) your plane stops being an SSTO.
    • One of your planes has 3 front wheels in a row along the long axis of the plane. Don't do that. That just looks too silly and is entirely impractical. If you really need to add strength to your front wheels (you won't until you start building kiloton crafts), place them in a pair in mirror symmetry and very close together.
  4. You don't know how to use the engines. Some of your planes have WarpJets on them but no Power Spheres to meet their ElectricCharge demands. One of your planes has 4 completely different engines attached. Each of these has different fuel needs, different performances at any speed and altitude, and they have efficiency ratings that vary wildly. These factors can make it impossible to anticipate how much of each fuel to bring or not bring for different situations, and make it so that more of your engines become dead weight when they're no longer in the situation where they work well or work at all.

All of your planes will be fine once you grasp these things.

Thank you. I have been designing planes accordingly and they work!!!. wheels were a major problem for me, but i have learned to work with them. i have been stacking pairs horizontally. I was  Testing some of those crafts with infinite propellant and electricity, so thats why there were no power cores. i have removed all of the srb's. your insight has been great on this. Thanks again. Cheers!!!

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Hello

In the OPT Stail Class QS01 cockpit, if you select the crew icon there's 5 seats available to choose 5 crew members, but when you launch the plane, only 2 seats with 2 crew remain....Is it a bug?

I can only see 2 crew among the 5 I choose...I am with the version 1.4.0 du to  problem with TweakScale....

I also noticed there's no light in the cockpit and in some others...

Is there a config file to modify to get the 5 crew seats available when the plane is on the runway?

Edited by gilflo

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On 10/24/2019 at 3:54 AM, papasid said:

wheels were a major problem for me, but i have learned to work with them. i have been stacking pairs horizontally.

While I dont spaceplane very much (or very well), I do use both OPT mods to build aircraft. I also tend to build them very *biggly* :P
I feel your pain with wheels on OPT craft. Not only are the stock wheels too small for my use, but I also find them WAAYY too weak for use on my OPT craft. Most times they wont even support the weight of the craft, and immediatley break upon spawning. I also wont touch TweakScale with a 10ft pole if I can at all avoid it.

Instead, I highly recommend the use of the old ALG parts (Adjustable Landing Gear), which are now included in the Kerbal Foundries mod. Not only are these parts better looking, and offer moar sizes, the mod allows for tweaking the height/length of the strut, as well as the angle of the strut and hub seperately, among several other, suspension/strength tweakables. Even with all that, I usually end up modifying and increasing their strength in the part configs to handle my phat OPT craft. Being able to custom adjust the height and strut/hub angles allows for soooo many moar mounting options.

One of these days, i *really* have to start pestering JadeOfMaar to add Kerbal Foundries to the thread OP as a "Recommended" mod. :P

Edited by Stone Blue

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shouldnt need to edit the ALG part configs.. just tweakscale them up a bit and I havent had problems even on spaceplanes up to 3000 tons or so.

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8 hours ago, ss8913 said:

shouldnt need to edit the ALG part configs.. just tweakscale them up a bit and I havent had problems even on spaceplanes up to 3000 tons or so.

Exactly, that's what I do also, but I do agree that adjustable landing gears are prettier and good looking....

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10 hours ago, ss8913 said:

shouldnt need to edit the ALG part configs.. just tweakscale them up a bit and I havent had problems even on spaceplanes up to 3000 tons or so.

There's a potential glitch however. The current stock patches for landing stuff doesn't scales some attributes (as strength). So you scale them up, but they don't get stronger as you expect. You scale them down, and they don't get weaker as well.

The fixed patch already exists on the development branch, but since this can break existing crafts, I'm currently asking for beta testers in order to estimate possible breakage before putting it on production. Using KSP 1.8 for this appears to be a good opportunity, as everything is expected to break anyway... :P

Edited by Lisias
Kraken damned Autocompletes. Mods reading the EDITS (damn) should be laughing by now...

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For a 1500T spaceplane I use at least 6 x 6wheels main gear aligned on the rear, perfectly aligned in 3 dimensions with Hangar Grid, as they must all support exactly the same weight (1550T/36) and 2 x 2wheels directional gears aligned under the nose. You can take off with no problem but landing at maxi weight must be very smooth...with vertical speed less than 3m/s

1500T/36  is 41T per wheel as in the real life you got 12 Wheels(2 x 6 wheels main gears) on a B777 for 340T max on take of which is 28T/wheel and 250T for landing which is 21T/Wheel

So with a 1500T spaceplane 8 to 10 6Wheels main gears should be the minimum rules!

And perfectly aligned in 3 dimensions is very difficult to fix.....

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14 hours ago, Stone Blue said:

...I also wont touch TweakScale with a 10ft pole if I can at all avoid it.....

One of these days, i *really* have to start pestering JadeOfMaar to add Kerbal Foundries to the thread OP as a "Recommended" mod. :P

Sorry, but i am one of those people who consider TweakScale to be a non-starter. It has its place, but IMHO, its been far too abused by people, and when installed, gives me far too many problems above and beyond what its worth, when there are other means to get rescaled parts.

 

13 hours ago, ss8913 said:

shouldnt need to edit the ALG part configs.. just tweakscale them up a bit <snip>....

So, I find editing a couple two-digit numbers in, like, six part cfgs, *ONCE*, to be *MUCH* easier, than dealing with non-stop issues *from many mods* from *having TweakScale installed.*

I even made my own MM patch to remove any and all TweakScale reference *across the board*, in *EVERY* part in my installation.
Again, nothing against TweakScale, I just find it troublesome, especially when there are other options... Just like many people wont touch CKAN, when there are other options...

But I digress, and we're starting to get off topic...I just wanted to mention another option, other than TweakScale, to users of OPT, by mentioning the ALG gear, and how to simply tweak them to make them stronger.

Edited by Stone Blue

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7 minutes ago, Stone Blue said:

, I find editing a couple two-digit numbers in, like, six part cfgs, *ONCE*, to be *MUCH* easier, than dealing with non-stop issues from TweakScale.

Me too. But I also realized that diagnosing the problem and applying fixes to the faulty artifacts ends up solving the problem not just to me, but to everybody else too.

But, hey, it's me. :)

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Restock Depth Mask feature

For all cockpits that have intakes, for the mk2 and J-92 intake, and for practically all of the engines!

Coming very soon to OPT Legacy.

Rq8wwTW.jpg

With OPT themed, re-entry grade airbrakes! (From B9 Aerospace.)

VV9YQFI.jpg

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8kO8CBX.jpg

1eZDX7a.jpg  dnhSajA.jpg  BsxcGWo.jpg  TPXDPR6.jpg  VV9YQFI.jpg 

Rq8wwTW.jpg

OPT Legacy 1.5.0

  • All legacy engines: New plumes! New sounds!
  • Added Restock DepthMask module to the following. This allows for parts to clip properly into each other and be less likely to show through where they should not, and for "low profile" engine assemblies to look better. See example above:
    • All cockpits with built-in intakes.
    • Mk2 and 2.5m (J92) intakes.
    • All engines.
  • Added missing lift surface ratings to these engines: All Mk2, Stail linear aerospike, J-81.
  • Added re-entry grade airbrakes (cloned from B9 Aerospace).
  • Added J cabin IVA to Humpback cabin.
  • Adjusted engine performance for:
    • J-81: Air-breathing performance buffed for thicker Oxygenated atmospheres.
    • J-60D: ClosedCycle in thicker atmospheres. Might not be notice-able.
  • Fixed missing default light action group in legacy J cockpit.
  • Fixed low heat tolerance in J-60, J-60D engines. Were 2000K, now 2400 ~ 2700K.
  • Fixed (Bandaged) intake module problem in Humpback cockpit. It's now actually useable and equivalent to 2x OPT Mk2 intake.
  • Made the ARI-73 much more expensive with reference to its nuclear engine nature and unique advantages.
  • Moved RCS plume assets to OPT_Reconfig.
  • Removed many old configs.
  • Some adjustments to costs and performance of engines.

OPT Reconfig 1.8.0

  • All main engines: New plumes! New sounds!
  • Added missing lift surface ratings to these engines: HAE-02 Mk2 engine, J Linear aerospike.
  • Added surface attach to Mk2 Nose.
  • Adjusted Power Sphere fusion selection.
    • Some options are now only available when relevant mods are installed.
    • Removed duplicate LqdHe3 option.
  • Adjusted Dark Goo balance.
    • Added mass.
    • Slowed its consumption and production rates.
    • Added immense buffs for Dark Drive to serve as a half-decent interstellar engine.
    • Made Dark Drive incredibly more expensive to match.
  • Revised MFT/RealFuels configs.

DOWNLOAD - OPT Reconfig

DOWNLOAD - OPT Legacy

Edited by JadeOfMaar

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