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KSP Future DLC Ideas

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On 4/24/2018 at 3:36 AM, Gargamel said:

Mods.  Free.  No sales. 

Nice avatar. 

I wouldn't be so sure of this, especially given the struggles they've had with the console version. Even before that they integrated spaceplane plus, stock aero, DRE, resource collection, etc as part of the 1.0 release. Just because some functionality exists in a mod doesnt mean a version of it cant become stock. 

Right now the the game is really only fleshed out through Kerbin SOI. The stock tech tree, parts list, experience perks and flight tools are really only tailored to get you that far. So yeah, I absolutely think a DLC about the future is the best idea so far, but lets stick to the near future: planetary exploration. There was already a recent thread on this but this to me it would mean:

- A few more engines (Nervas, Ion, VASMIR, etc)

- Deep space flight tools (a tranfer window aid, alarm clock, and dV readouts)

- Habitation and life support (LS resources, greenhouses and hab modules)

- Field science and surface features (new experiments and mechanics that encourage surface dexploration)

- Reactors (to power it all)

We could also, in a perfect world, use this as an excuse to take a good hard pass at finishing up and balancing career mode in general--tweaked up tech tree, building upgrades, experience perks, up-front-and-center world first contracts, etc to make Kerbal just more playable and enjoyable out of the box.

 

Edited by Pthigrivi

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PS4 Enhanced Edition, 1.01, console player here.

Parts.

-I'd like to see some Mun ( or other world base ) base parts, and some more space station parts. Bio-Domes, Canteena, Recycling plant, Admin centre, Idea of building a 'self sustaining base'.  Deep-space sensors/tracking, We've already got the great big survey scanner, please add a Hubble, Kepler, Webb, Tess, or really any other job specific sky scanning tools.

Skills.

-Console engineer needs to be able to remove and add most parts while in space (could need 2 or 3 engineers to be present). Higher level console scientists should be able to squeeze more science out of already explored areas. I had the idea of landing my old landers and satellites to a specific area of Minmus so that the engineers stationed at the base there could use all the parts for other things. Refit existing space-craft or just build something new out of what is there.

Game functions I'd like

-Kerb-Net should let Console players know what areas they haven't explored. Simplify it's functions, expand it's usefulness for the Console players. Life support systems for advanced play. At least a couple more Launch and landing sites.

Cheers!

 

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Planet packs and/or alternative solar systems.  Different scales too.  Maybe an 'official RSS' pack with adjustments to stock part stats to more closely match RL.

Yes I know 'a mod does it', but that is no good to console players or those (like me) that don't really want to have to mix a complex cocktail of mods.

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18 hours ago, Pthigrivi said:

Just because some functionality exists in a mod doesnt mean a version of it cant become stock.

Oh very true.  In the years I've been playing, I've seen quite a few mods get incorporated into stock.  But that's stock, not a DLC.  And even then, the mod makers often refuse to give up their ship and continue to work on the mod.  The sales won't be enough to pay for the development of a DLC that already exists as a mod, and to continue to fund Squad overall.  Squad (and hopefully with our help) has to find mechanics not available already that encourages people to purchase the DLC. 

14 hours ago, pandaman said:

Planet packs and/or alternative solar systems.  Different scales too.  Maybe an 'official RSS' pack with adjustments to stock part stats to more closely match RL.

Yes I know 'a mod does it', but that is no good to console players or those (like me) that don't really want to have to mix a complex cocktail of mods. 

I'm all for incorporating planet packs and a variety of mods into the stock game, or even as a DLC.  But if Squad can't justify the development costs based on projected sales, then it won't happen. 

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One thing I'd love to see is the ability to build new ships outside of Kerbin. It should need various huge parts and vast amounts of ore, and it should probably be limited to certain parts counts, but it would be so cool to not have to return to Kerbin for each new ship.

I know this has been done in a mod (KIS I think) already, but the main developers could actually include it properly, with way better integration and less fiddlyness. 

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3 hours ago, Gargamel said:

I'm all for incorporating planet packs and a variety of mods into the stock game, or even as a DLC.  But if Squad can't justify the development costs based on projected sales, then it won't happen.

Agreed.

The decision to spend time and resources developing any potential DLC or stock functionality whether inspired by, or using features from, mods or not will (quite rightly) be judged on it's projected commercial value.  I suppose that if any given mod is popular then that could indicate that a demand for those features to be available as DLC or in stock exists.

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Guys the DLC that just came out included an art pass, 1.875m, 5m and historical parts that are all provided by mods. Were also completely neglecting console players in this analysis. The features I suggested were surface features (crystals, geysers, volcanoes, fossils maybe) integrated into the science system (no mod I know does that), LS, Reactors and Alarm clock (Roverdude and Trigger AU are already staff members) which just leaves a couple fancy engines and dV, which we all know has been desperately needed for a long, long time. And hell, Nertea just had a baby so he might be ready to sell too. Of course it would take major work to integrate all this, but if the end result was letting players conduct real-feeling interplanetary exploration on all platforms that seems worth a DLC. 

Edited by Pthigrivi

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I kinda want a standardized art style. Like a revamp on every old part, and standardize the colors too. Also using the new variant switcher for most of the new parts, adding variants. They should use the old porkjet sheet for engines too.

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I disagree with the people who say that official release and mods should have mutually exclusive content. The makers of Team Fortress 2 realized quickly that official game makers can't compete with the rate of content generation and creativity. So instead, they compliment them by awarding stability and version robustness to the best content.

Think about Porkjet's additions of the mk2 fuselage system. It's so integrated that no one really thinks about the fact that it came into being through a modder.

There are many lovely ideas that I thin deserve to be 'canonized', even if it means paying for them. Even if it's just a single new Gas Giant planetary system "comes with rings, a moon with an atmosphere and a mountain that reaches above the clouds, a moon with a volcano, trench land that totally isn't the death star Mimas, etc" yes I know I *can* download that for free, but I would be willing to shell out $20 so I don't have to have all that "only works with a five-month old version" nonsense.

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On 4/21/2018 at 11:02 PM, Canopus said:

Causality says so. So yeah, there may be warp drives eventually but there will always be a natural mechanism that prevents faster than light travel.

Alcubierre Drive tho

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38 minutes ago, RedPandaz said:

Alcubierre Drive tho

needs negative mass and doesn‘t solve the problem of causality.

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3 minutes ago, Canopus said:

needs negative mass and doesn‘t solve the problem of causality.

Causality is only a problem if you go backwards in time, IIRC

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2 minutes ago, RedPandaz said:

Causality is only a problem if you go backwards in time, IIRC

Which you would automatically do by travelling faster than light. No matter the mechanism.

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9 hours ago, Canopus said:

Which you would automatically do by travelling faster than light. No matter the mechanism.

That would bring you forward in time, because time would go slower for you than the outside world

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DLC that duplicates something you can do with a mod isn't necessarily a bad thing.  The advantage is that it now would have official support and it wouldn't break with each new update.  But I agree that DLC should focus on doing things that are difficult to do with a mod.

Now I'm just getting back into the game after being away for about a year so I don't know if it has changed, but I recall that storing and reusing a complete vehicle after recovery wasn't something that was easily done with a mod.  So a DLC that focuses on aircraft and spaceplanes, which adds some sort of storage hanger so you can turn around, repair, and refuel the same vehicle over and over again might be a good idea.

 

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11 minutes ago, IceGiant said:

DLC that duplicates something you can do with a mod isn't necessarily a bad thing.  The advantage is that it now would have official support and it wouldn't break with each new update. 

I look at it the same way. But it's amazing how small the amount of people is who get this.

For most of us, AVC will light up like fireworks on the 4th of July right now. And that's fully understandable; mods are made by volunteers who you cannot expect to jump up and recompile everything the moment a new patch comes out.

But that's why I really like the MH parts.

My suspicion is that parts will be a very, very large part of why DLC gets bought. But: "mods provide the same for free." So there always needs to be a part that is justification of why you buy the DLC, like the missions. Even when you never play them. :)

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I don't really want any DLC for KSP. I'm just happy with mods. Before you know it, we'll just have like 5 DLC packs which add really cool stuff and then the base game players will get nothing in the new updates (Such as what happened with Battlefield 1, for example). I don't want SQUAD to turn into an EA-like company. I want it to remain the great little Mexican ideas hub for great little games. 

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2 hours ago, Kerbart said:

I look at it the same way. But it's amazing how small the amount of people is who get this.

 

2 hours ago, IceGiant said:

DLC that duplicates something you can do with a mod isn't necessarily a bad thing. 

 

There are some mods out there, or combinations of mods, that would be glorious as stock.  And I'm not referring to the utilities like KAC or KER.  I'm referring to Life support, or planet packs, or the MK4 system, etc.   With careful integration, they could do wonderful things. 

But...... It won't happen, not because "you can already do that with a mod", but "Nobody would buy it when a mod is free".  TTI and Squad can't justify the cost of development if they can't predict the sales will be there.  I know I would absolutely love to see more planets in stock, and would be happy with that as a DLC, but a lot of people would not buy it, as similar stuff is free. 

I know I have been saying this ad naseum, but it's not to squash anybody's ideas, but to encourage us to think out side the box in potentially helping Squad come up with a great next DLC, that we all want. 

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Well, whether there is enough business to justify developing more DLC, I don't know.  I'm not privy to those numbers.  I was thinking along the lines of assuming more DLC was in the pipeline, what would I like to see?

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6 hours ago, Gargamel said:

 

 

There are some mods out there, or combinations of mods, that would be glorious as stock.  And I'm not referring to the utilities like KAC or KER.  I'm referring to Life support, or planet packs, or the MK4 system, etc.   With careful integration, they could do wonderful things. 

But...... It won't happen, not because "you can already do that with a mod", but "Nobody would buy it when a mod is free".  TTI and Squad can't justify the cost of development if they can't predict the sales will be there.  I know I would absolutely love to see more planets in stock, and would be happy with that as a DLC, but a lot of people would not buy it, as similar stuff is free. 

I know I have been saying this ad naseum, but it's not to squash anybody's ideas, but to encourage us to think out side the box in potentially helping Squad come up with a great next DLC, that we all want. 

Yeah I absolutely agree there's got to be some hook there that Squads supplying that no one else can, but like with the previous DLC that needn't preclude including elements already provided by mods. I'll also say even with an expansion things like KAC and dV should really just be part of the stock game. 

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On 5/10/2018 at 3:18 AM, Gargamel said:

But...... It won't happen, not because "you can already do that with a mod", but "Nobody would buy it when a mod is free".  TTI and Squad can't justify the cost of development if they can't predict the sales will be there.  I know I would absolutely love to see more planets in stock, and would be happy with that as a DLC, but a lot of people would not buy it, as similar stuff is free. 

I know I have been saying this ad naseum, but it's not to squash anybody's ideas, but to encourage us to think out side the box in potentially helping Squad come up with a great next DLC, that we all want. 

 

On 5/10/2018 at 9:44 AM, Pthigrivi said:

Yeah I absolutely agree there's got to be some hook there that Squads supplying that no one else can, but like with the previous DLC that needn't preclude including elements already provided by mods. I'll also say even with an expansion things like KAC and dV should really just be part of the stock game. 

This made me realize that there is a distinct difference between part mods and partless mods. For me, the latter provide services that I think the game should be providing. I certainly wouldn't be happy with DLC that would offer them as the main attraction. It should be truly stock!

In my mind, there's two elements that make DLC parts more attractive than mod parts:

  • Not having to worry that an upgrade breaks the mod and leaves me with disappearing vessels
  • A visual style that matches stock

The latter, I'm aware, is a contentious argument. Not everyone cares about it, and not everyone will agree on what the visual style of stock is (and might even applaud a deviation from it). I'm not saying that free mods cannot have a style that matches stock. There are some very good part mods out there, and a couple I even use! But there are also many that are a turn-off for me because the parts stand out so much from the rest of game that they don't seem to fit in.

But not everyone looks at it that way. And I agree that it makes it a tricky proposition for Squad. Which is why DLC shouldn't be just parts. MH is an excellent implementation of that philosophy. I can see DLC that offers space station parts (rotating artificial gravity, huge nuclear propellant units, large solar arrays) in conjunction with a wormhole to visit other (procedural?) solar systems. Moving parts (robotics) in conjunction with a programming console, and so on.

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Many people have complained that Career Mode was very poorly implemented as nothing more then an afterthought....

So, Introducing.... MAKING EA!  This DLC will include a complete career mode and some futuristic parts like nuclear reactors and larger NERVs to go with it. Because who doesn't love buying what was supposed to be a complete game and then paying for DLCs to get said complete game! Using our KrakenPortal Virturalization Technology, we are able to open up wormholes to a better, more ideal version of the current universe where there are better versions of video games, steal the code for the game, and release parts of the better, more ideal version of games as DLC! The revamped career mode has been designed to provide players with a sense of pride and accomplishment. Get it now on Steam, GOG, or our website for only $20!

 

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Kerbal Space Program: Making Starships

Features

  • A full galaxy filled with stars and other deep sky objects including Neutron Stars, Black Holes, Nebulae, Globular and Open Clusters, and detectable but not reachable other galaxies.
  • Astronomy with telescopes, on the ground and in space, can help the Space Program detect planets around other stars by the radial velocity method or transit method, or detect asteroids and distant planets and dwarf planets in the solar system.
  • Every star in the "skybox" can be visited.
  • Procedural star systems and planets, as well as a few hand-made stars and planets.
  • New solar system objects, including asteroids, dwarf planets, and comets. A handful of hand-made ones, most are discoverable and procedural.
  • A few more timewarp scales, and on-rails thrust (allows for brachistochrone trajectories and long-range ion missions to be flyable in real time)
  • A variety of high energy interstellar propulsion methods at the endgame.
    • Laser sails, requiring expensive laser projectors on KSC or in space.
    • Solar sails
    • Nuclear Pulse Rockets
    • Fusion Rockets
    • Ramjet Propulsion, utilizing space-breathing engine technology (actually takes in interstellar hydrogen from ramscoops)
    • Wormholes, can be opened in space from prexisting microsopic wormholes and allowing for instant, orbitally linked teleportation to the destination.
    • And finally the warp drive, the epitome of starship technology. 
  • A few handmade solar systems, including some classics from science fiction.
    • Rocheworld, a very compact double planet.
    • Mesklin, a rapidly spinning planet of 0.16 Jupiter masses. (16 in real scale)
    • More systems, some of them with playable habitable planets. Games can be started on procedurally generated systems as well.
  • Simulation of General and/or Special Relativity and Lightspeed delay for probe control and science transmission.

Kerbal Space Program: Making Homes

  • Orbital construction
  • Colonization of other planetary bodies, at first with habitats, eventually building up to self-sustaining cities based upon PQSCity (built-in to the planet, not just surface ships)
  • Emotional stability/sanity of Kerbals.
    • Kerbals have different compatibilities with each other based upon their Stupidity, Courage, and Charisma values.
    • Kerbals (other than BadS = true) will go insane without other Kerbals for too long.
    • Few Kerbals left alone with each other for long enough may grow to dislike each other.
    • Insane Kerbals are incapable of flying ships. Very insane Kerbals may do dangerous things, like staging or thrusting or spinning the ship.
    • Kerbals sleep for 2 hours out of a 6 hour day when in timewarp. (They're always alert outside of timewarp)
  • Health of Kerbals.
    • Starving, suffocating, prolonged exposure to very low gravity or to very high gravity, and physical injury from crashes may damage kerbals, reducing their Health Points. They can heal with time in nominal conditions, or by eating more food. Below a certain percent of hp, based upon their Constitution value, they will pass out. If they reach zero they die. Passed out Kerbals can in some cases regain consciousness, but if they don't have a doctor onboard to revive them they may die.
  • Kerbals make noise and language--mouse over their portraits to hear them. They chat with each other, mission control, 
  • Kerbals with physical distinctions, like hair color, height, body proportions, and skin tone. These are controlled with genetics.
  • Kerbal reproduction and genetics model, for population growth. (Or eugenics, if you want... :/)
  • Endgame: construction of launch sites on other planets.
  • Construction time mechanics for Space Center buildings and alternate space center sites.
  • Procedural cities around Kerbin, populated with cars and Kerbals--it would be odd to have cities on other planets before cities on Kerbin! Destroy buildings there for a massive reputation hit and huge fines, possibly leading to the cancellation of the space program.
  • Planets have many different resources to be utilized in different ways, including water and mulch (mulch is a reference to USI Life Support, and represents waste products that are also full of bottleneck elements like nitrogen and phosphorus, without which you can not grow food.
  • Agriculure, aeroponics, and hydroponics simulation.

 

yes this is perhaps overdone, and honestly in Squad's current state I don't trust Squad not to royally screw these ideas up if they were made. Here's a more down to earth suggestion:

Kerbal Space Program: Making Probes (small enough to just be an update)

  • Speed of Light delay for science transmissions and communications.
  • Probe control tech tree:
    • Begins with the stayputnik, which can only receive live control signals and have a delay. No flight computer, no SAS.
    • Then you get the basic flight controller, including the orbit vectors.
    • Then you get programmable computers with a scratch-like programming system with a similar UI as the Mission Builder.
    • Then at the endgame you get computers that have kerbal-like intelligence, and function as pilots in their own right.
  • Packets of control input are displayed as dots travelling along comm paths, and clicking on them will display a log of the inputs. They can't be removed once sent, obviously.
  • Speed of light is changeable in the game settings.

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A future DLC , expansion or KSP2.0 should not just add more parts or planets.
I would prefer more playability and a big upgrade of career.

Adding just more planets would not solve the big problem in late gameplay:
Once landed on a distant body, there is just nothing to do.

Career should have better progression.
On the start, you just have the possibility to launch some sub-orbital probes.
Then, after years and tons of launches and experiments, you progress toward a big space agency, finally able to colonize other planets, gather ressources there and build new bases capable of building and launching vessels.
It would be perfect if there are some kind of story mode, or missions that guide you on your progress.
This would give a feeling of real progression.
Each body that you visit, each probe that you send to distant bodies should help you on your way.
Harvesting science points should be replaced by unique experiments which help your R&D to develop new parts.

I would like some aspects of the "Anno-XXXX" games where you start with a hometown on a island and finally spread across the whole map, with multiple self-sustaining bases (or even better: bases that need to share ressources which can only be gathered on single bodies).
This would of course require some MechJeb-like autopilot feature to manage your macro-economy.

Until Duna, the current game already has this feeling to me.
But then you have unlocked all parts and there is nothing more to to than "get there, plant flag".
This is also the point where probes become useless.

A lot of this can already be achieved by using KIS/KAS and USI-MKS / USI-LS.

But, don't get me wrong, I don't want to drop the biggest aspect of this game:
Design and build ships and get them to your target, learning a lot about orbital mechanics on your way.
This should always be the point of the game.

What I don't want: science fiction parts like FTL and interstellar missions.
KSP always was about math and orbital / newton mechanic.
We do not know the math about FTL (OK, we have ideas), but even if we would, Genereal theory about relativity is not something everyone can do on his desk.

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