MEM bug

[Vandarren]

So, i first posted it in the modded section because I had a modded install, now, I have an unmodded game and still have this bug which apparently hasn't been solved in the patch. The MEM module has its control axis inverted, so when I want to pitch down it goes up and viceversa. Everything is set to default. Also the KV2 Pea and KV3 Pommergranate have the kerbals "looking" east when placed in the VAB, and then, when pitching up they yaw right. 

[sevenperforce]

The CoM of the MEM is way low and there are no reaction wheels so everything is FUBAR.

I just throw a solar panel on the side and a reaction wheel on top and clip the reaction wheel down. Works wonders.

[Vandarren]

16 hours ago, sevenperforce said:

The CoM of the MEM is way low and there are no reaction wheels so everything is FUBAR.

I just throw a solar panel on the side and a reaction wheel on top and clip the reaction wheel down. Works wonders.

It has nothing to do with the CoM, engines will also gimbal opposite while the MEM is in clamps.

[Vandarren]

Is anyone from KSP looking those forums? I've asked twice about this possible bug and no response from them...

[klesh]

This type of thing is best posted here, you'll need to make another account:  https://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com

 

Edit:  Well, it looks like this was posted to the bugtracker 2 months ago.

https://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/18030

Edited May 4, 2018 by klesh

[bewing]

The control axes on the MEM are exactly right if you are looking at the navball.

The only time things seem to look strange is if you are looking out the windows and trying to fly in IVA mode -- because the windows look out the side of the capsule, not the front. This is true for several pods and lander cans, and you have to keep in mind that the control axis of the craft is not in the same direction you are looking in IVA mode.

 

 

[Vandarren]

7 minutes ago, bewing said:

The control axes on the MEM are exactly right if you are looking at the navball.

The only time things seem to look strange is if you are looking out the windows and trying to fly in IVA mode -- because the windows look out the side of the capsule, not the front. This is true for several pods and lander cans, and you have to keep in mind that the control axis of the craft is not in the same direction you are looking in IVA mode.

 

 

The Z axis is rotated 180º other landing pods have the IVA windows looking "the right way" although still, the Navball is ok.

 

[bewing]

Yes, that is correct. It is built rotated 180 degrees from the other sideways pods. But even if it gets unrotated that 180 degrees, the pilot is still looking out the side of the pod -- and that will always cause at least one control axis to be inverted.

[Raptor9]

The reason I posted that bug report on the bugtracker is because the MEM pod breaks the consistency from the existing lander pods, in that the "sideways-looking" IVA view was always oriented down towards the Nadir side of the spacecraft.  For players that have been playing long enough to instinctively recognize this when flying a lander from outside the cockpit, it can be somewhat unorthodox.  Yes, if flying strictly off the navball, the proper axis response is apparent, but when you're trying to visually approach an LZ with a lander, a lot of players aren't staring at that, they're staring at the lander and the ground, and referencing the VSI and speed indicators.

Now as a workaround, when I place a docking port on top of the MEM, I ensured it was rotated 180 degrees from the MEM's alignment, and I just click "Control From Here", which swaps my Navball alignment to where I have always expected it to be after playing KSP for over 5 years.

To clarify, I didn't post that bug report for those players that strictly fly off the IVA (I'm not one of those players), but the inconsistent pitch response was best apparent when viewed from the IVA.  Even flying from the "conventional" outside view, the fact that it breaks consistency from the rest of the pods is what can lead to confusion.

Edited May 12, 2018 by Raptor9

[bewing]

7 hours ago, Raptor9 said:

Even flying from the "conventional" outside view, the fact that it breaks consistency from the rest of the pods is what can lead to confusion.

The problem is that "consistency" is not just one thing.

The consistency is that the Crew Hatch always faces south. Not the consistency on the direction the kerbals or the windows are facing. If you orient the pod using the conventional outside view based on the crew hatch, this pod is exactly the same as all the others.

 

[Dafni]

8 hours ago, Raptor9 said:

 

Now as a workaround, when I place a docking port on top of the MEM, I ensured it was rotated 180 degrees from the MEM's alignment, and I just click "Control From Here", which swaps my Navball alignment to where I have always expected it to be after playing KSP for over 5 years.

 

A handy trick. Did this since the early days, works for all kinds of contraptions, rovers, landers etc where you might have odd contol POVs. Sometimes you even want two different control points.

For pods I always imagine the control POV should be in the way the kerbal on the inside faces. A truely stange one is that rover pod, wonder what the logic behind that one is.

[OHara]

On 5/12/2018 at 2:25 AM, bewing said:

The consistency is that the Crew Hatch always faces south

.. by default after assembly in the VAB, and the nav-ball and controls are oriented so that pulling up rotates the nose toward the Crew Hatch.

Now that you mention it, the crew hatch is on the pulling-up side for all command pods (except the MK1 cockpit, but the canopy makes its orientation obvious).   Most pods have the crew facing forward and their heads to the crew hatch.  The two standard lander cans consistently lean the pilot forward, away from the crew hatch to look out the window.  Then pulling up or the 's' key turn the craft in the direction of the pilot looking up.    The new KV1 'Onion' also follows this convention; the hatch is not so obvious, but the VZOR orientation window between the pilots feet is easy to find (and the ejection seat hatch is naturally on the opposite side).

From that point of view, the KV2 and KV3 are oriented just fine, only the Kerbals are seated sideways relative to the control stick, and presumably they do not eject out of the crew hatch.  The Munar Excursinon Module has the pilots, looking out the windows, with their backs to their control sticks.   So we just need to ignore the orientations of the Kerbals, and the windows on the M.E.M.  

The Kerbals are not flying the craft; the crew hatches are.

Edited June 10, 2018 by OHara