Eskandare

Kerbin Side Remastered [1.0.1] [1.7.3]

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On 5/7/2018 at 7:21 PM, infinax said:

0B29F8DCDDC449F8205A73377343B15DE45BA7A4I  was doing some stuff at the desert runway and i returned to the space center. was pleasantly surprised to find my self at the runway but upon moving the camera the textures glitched out also the only thing i could highlight to enter was the tracking center. But its overall a great mod

That is definitely a KK or KSP issue. Everything I make is vertex snapped and very precise. This definitely looks like the engine disobeyed the vertex and tris coordinates and decided to do it's own thing. If you are trying to edit a base from a distance, DON'T the engine won't know how to render it. Always be at the base locally.

On 4/30/2018 at 10:19 PM, XOC2008 said:

Are you going to redo Kampus as well? I loved the expansion of the KSC with all those little offices and housing blocks.

A new KK Kampus may be a thing in the near future.

10 hours ago, Bottle Rocketeer 500 said:

@Eskandare How do you make a config that spawns instances of the objects?

Well the config is written like a Part config except with Static instead. Go ahead and look at my configs. the actual instance is stored in KerbalKonstructs/NewInstances but can be moved elsewhere for sharing or mod making. Mine are located in KerbinSideRemastered/Statics/ExampleBases.

Edited by Eskandare

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I just stumbled onto the old dev thread for Kerbin Science Ijnitiative, and they have a pretty solid list of region and feature names.

 

That MIGHT be something worth scavenging.

 

THREAD: (Ancient)

I'm'a yank the map.

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5 hours ago, Bottle Rocketeer 500 said:

@Eskandare Thanks.

EDIT: I can't find a folder called NewInstances in the KK folder, just ExportedInstances.

That would only exist if you used ctrl+K to open the editor and place KK Statics. 

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Okay, I yanked the name chart from the other page and used it to jumpstart ideas.

 

Let me know what you think of this:

 

kDdJQzI.png

The logic behind what got what letter...

B: Borealis (Northern Lights)

A: Australis  (Southern Lights)

K: Kolge (from the map.)

W: West Kolge

N: North Region (Sub-polar, 'West Kolge' just goes so far I had to split it.)

S: South Region (Sub-polar, )

G: Gnosis (God, that pun.  'G'nosis... or Geonosis.)

E: Eastern Region

O: Ocean (Contains the largest island set)

U: Underworld/Undersea

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@Eskandare Thanks again.

@AdmiralTigerclaw I really support your idea for airports, just can you please try to use stuff like the palm trees and roads and other such stuff from KSC++, and make the airport layout a bit more realistic, with intersecting runways and maybe add a spawn point at each gate. Also, maybe I can make models for other airport-related stuff, such as jetways and such.

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On ‎5‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 3:31 PM, Bottle Rocketeer 500 said:

@Eskandare Thanks again.

@AdmiralTigerclaw I really support your idea for airports, just can you please try to use stuff like the palm trees and roads and other such stuff from KSC++, and make the airport layout a bit more realistic, with intersecting runways and maybe add a spawn point at each gate. Also, maybe I can make models for other airport-related stuff, such as jetways and such.

You don't want spawns at all the gates.  I'm looking at making dozens of airports, and each spawn creates both an entry on the KK list, and an icon on the tracking-station map.  Having multiple spawns at each airport would result in a huge mess of a list.  As for doing all the extra cosmetic stuff...  I'm not going to get THAT crazy invested into it.  KK's placement system is just too inefficient and takes too long.  It took 12 hours to put together what amounts to snapping a bunch of half-hexes together and fiddle in some extra parts.  The other thing is I don't want to grab up KSC++ models and parts.  That'll force a dependency.

 

As for realistic things like criss-crossing runways...   Runways are placed based on dominating surface wind patterns.  So I'll be trying to figure out what is most common based on what the map of a spot looks like.  Would be neat if KWS was functional for players.  Surveying actual wind patterns would be neat.

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

Okay, here's my plan for airport distribution.

 

yzN5og3.png

 

As I said, a LOT of airports.   In order to keep them organized on the KK launch site selector menu, I'm probably going to have to append the IKAO code with a letter-hyphen on the front denoting airport type.  My criteria I wrote up for myself are as follows:

==

 

Kerbin Airport Types:
-------------------------------
S: Spaceport   (5,000,000 Funds to open)

At least one 5000 meter runway.
One 3200 meter runway.
Located on Equator, ocean to east.
Supports large spaceplanes with extreme takeoff/landing speeds.
Operates with LF, OX, and MP.
Always has multiple VAB models and major comms relay dish.

NAMES:
- Armstrong Interstellar Starport (S-WARM)
- Krackensbane Galactic (S-EKKN)

-------------------------------
X: International Airport (1,000,000 Funds to open)

Two runways, at least one 3200 meters or longer.
Supports large aircraft such as 747s.
Only LF available.
Always has advanced lighting for all approaches, and ILS guidance for optimal approach.
Always has spaceplane hangar with tower.
Short range comms antenna.

NAMES:
- Badlands International (X-GBDL)
- Snakebyte Bay (X-WSBT)

 

-------------------------------
R: Regional Airport  (500,000 Funds to open)
One or two runways, at least one being standard 2500 or 2700 meter.
Supports medium aircraft such as turboprops and medium passenger jets/business jets.
Only LF available.
Has advanced lightning on optimal approach with ILS, other approaches get simplified lighting.
Has a small tower.
Short range comms antenna


-------------------------------
L: Local Airport  (100,000 Funds to open)
One runway, smaller than normal size.
Supports small and GA aircraft.
Only LF available.
Only simplified lighting, no PAPI.
No tower.
No comms Antenna

 

 

Keep in mind, the funds to open criteria is not final.  They're just rounded off numbers that took down steps from the 5 mil  starport value.

 

 

EDIT 2:

Starting on a second Intl airport.  Cottonmouth Continentlal (X-WCMC)

FzFH5zM.png

 

Don't even get me started on how annoying placement is here.  Apparently the slight roll and pitch where I landed the AW-609 to place down a spawn point also translated into spawning the instances.  I had to slight-roll things to get the taxiways not to behave funky.

Edited by AdmiralTigerclaw

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@AdmiralTigerclaw One tip: maybe add more than one terminal (just use the SPH model) at international airports. Also, have varying sizes of terminals depending on airport type. Then, maybe even a few "hub" int'l airports, with 3-4 runways and at least 3 terminals.

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33 minutes ago, Bottle Rocketeer 500 said:

@AdmiralTigerclaw One tip: maybe add more than one terminal (just use the SPH model) at international airports. Also, have varying sizes of terminals depending on airport type. Then, maybe even a few "hub" int'l airports, with 3-4 runways and at least 3 terminals.

I do intend to vary up the terminals a bit, but nothing TOO fancy.  Every area I make I have to put in those half-hex pads, and aligning them is a female dog.  Also, I need to be careful with the SPH.  It has a Control Tower bolted onto the model, so I've been using that as my tower.

 

I'm considering doing some terminals with rows of Mission Control Lvl 3s side by side.  But I'll wait to try that until I'm working on the airport I'm putting in the location of old Kerbin City.  I can't stress how slow getting things set up with each airport really is.  It's not really KSR or KKs fault either.  Floating points and the way world coordinates work in KSP make things behave weird.  I have to eyeball the position of the statics from four-million different angles, and I still don't have them lined up seamlessly.  Sometimes their heading is a 0.005 off.  Sometimes they have different heights that I just can't align to a smooth 0.  (I get a decimal value of scrambled eggs, and I can't enter numbers manaually to zero them out.  I have to click the buttons.)

 

The other problem I have to be careful of is mesh drift on the runways.  I have to zoom in close to the center stripes and jimmie their positions around at 0.001 movement so that I don't end up creating runways with 20 meter long grooves the landing gear can fall in.  By the time THAT's done, I have to realign things again.

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12 minutes ago, AdmiralTigerclaw said:

Also, I need to be careful with the SPH.  It has a Control Tower bolted onto the model, so I've been using that as my tower.

Airports can have more than one tower.  If realism is a problem, consider the SPH tower as a ramp tower and then put in an ATCT somewhere around midfield. 

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On 5/10/2018 at 1:36 AM, AdmiralTigerclaw said:

yzN5og3.png

As I said, a LOT of airports.   In order to keep them organized on the KK launch site selector menu, I'm probably going to have to append the IKAO code with a letter-hyphen on the front denoting airport type.  My criteria I wrote up for myself are as follows:

By Kerbol's sake! :-) Excellent! :-)

I want to suggest to include scientific bases too. From Kerbin Side Classic, I remember at least one in A with a small steel (WW2 style) airstrip, and at least one base on a mountain with helipads only. I don't think they should be mapped as local airports (perhaps the Antarctic one).

 

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1 hour ago, Lisias said:

By Kerbol's sake! :-) Excellent! :-)

I want to suggest to include scientific bases too. From Kerbin Side Classic, I remember at least one in A with a small steel (WW2 style) airstrip, and at least one base on a mountain with helipads only. I don't think they should be mapped as local airports (perhaps the Antarctic one).

 

 

I was thinking about that too.  I did, however, have to delete the old Kside segments on instructions to make the KSR statics work properly.  So I don't have any helipads or some of the buildings that would make those look nice.

Best thing to do, I think is get the airports built and filed away and then do the science bases as a separate subset after getting the right ones cleared as 'working'.

 

If someone wants to load KSR and old Kside up and start figuring out what will cause problems, and what won't, have fun with that.  I do like some of the Kside models, too.  The platform helipad was pretty cool looking, though I would like to see a helipad that follows FAA rules for Helipads (I need to look that up too.  I think there's actually a size and clearance requirement between the pad and helicopters.)

 

As for the arctic bases, I actually have a funny thought concerning the use of the terrain decals KK lets us use.  I know at least one arctic base in real life just uses a stretch of smoothed/cleared ice.  So it would be neat to build a base, but have no runway.  Instead, just mark 'safe' boundaries for players to build a C-130 to land there.

 

Also, if anyone else wants to build an airport, pick one of the spots on the map, build the airport to my specs, and stick all that into a folder.  It'll speed things up.  But you gotta' let me know you're doing it.

 

If you know how to set up statics in KK, a few pointers on the Intl airports.

 

1: I scale the runways up to 1.3 and then shrink them using only the 0.001 editing factor, while shifting it around to try and control mesh drift.  This gets me a 3,200ish meter runway that's 90 ish meters wide.  I haven't used waypoint editor to re-check the sizes.

2: The 'grass color' for 'concrete gray' I've been using is 0.45 / 0.45 / 0.45 / -0.22.

3: I use a lvl 1 Launchpad under the tarmac scaled all the way down to 0.01 to create a hidden spawn point that acts as Tarmac spawn.

4: When preparing a site, place a launch pad and create a spawn point a few KM off to the side first.  When you put down the terrain decal and save it, the rest of the KK spawn behavior (in my version) stops working.  You have to leave the scene and return to it for it to function again.  Making a launch site nearby saves time when you have to do that.

5: If, in later stages, the game starts telling you the new launch site is non functional, you have to reboot the game (in my version).

6: I'm assigning groups by IKAO code now.  So the airport I'm working right now on all contains statics grouped as XWCMC.  I'm going to put those all into a folder structure as follows:  Kerbinside Remastered/Airports/International/[AIRPORT IKAO]

 

Touching on 6 above, because I plan so many airports, I'm organizing the bases into subfolders.  Airports with subfolders 'Spaceport', 'International', 'Regional', and 'Local'.

I was considering sub-subfolders for IKAO regions, but I don't have THAT many airports in each category, and alphabetical ordering will organize them into groups at that point anyway.

 

 

EDIT: On heliports.

Found this:

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/150_5390_2c.pdf

 

Got some good stuff, but would need to have a modeler attack it.

 

 

 

 

Edited by AdmiralTigerclaw

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@AdmiralTigerclaw I will contribute a few REALLY LARGE Int'l airports to fly crafts, such as those made out of the A380 parts I am currently working on. Maybe one in K and one in W. Also, maybe one in N.

Edited by Bottle Rocketeer 500

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On 5/11/2018 at 6:36 AM, AdmiralTigerclaw said:

 

I was thinking about that too.  I did, however, have to delete the old Kside segments on instructions to make the KSR statics work properly.  So I don't have any helipads or some of the buildings that would make those look nice.

Best thing to do, I think is get the airports built and filed away and then do the science bases as a separate subset after getting the right ones cleared as 'working'.

 

If someone wants to load KSR and old Kside up and start figuring out what will cause problems, and what won't, have fun with that.  I do like some of the Kside models, too.  The platform helipad was pretty cool looking, though I would like to see a helipad that follows FAA rules for Helipads (I need to look that up too.  I think there's actually a size and clearance requirement between the pad and helicopters.)

 

As for the arctic bases, I actually have a funny thought concerning the use of the terrain decals KK lets us use.  I know at least one arctic base in real life just uses a stretch of smoothed/cleared ice.  So it would be neat to build a base, but have no runway.  Instead, just mark 'safe' boundaries for players to build a C-130 to land there.

 

Also, if anyone else wants to build an airport, pick one of the spots on the map, build the airport to my specs, and stick all that into a folder.  It'll speed things up.  But you gotta' let me know you're doing it.

 

If you know how to set up statics in KK, a few pointers on the Intl airports.

 

1: I scale the runways up to 1.3 and then shrink them using only the 0.001 editing factor, while shifting it around to try and control mesh drift.  This gets me a 3,200ish meter runway that's 90 ish meters wide.  I haven't used waypoint editor to re-check the sizes.

2: The 'grass color' for 'concrete gray' I've been using is 0.45 / 0.45 / 0.45 / -0.22.

3: I use a lvl 1 Launchpad under the tarmac scaled all the way down to 0.01 to create a hidden spawn point that acts as Tarmac spawn.

4: When preparing a site, place a launch pad and create a spawn point a few KM off to the side first.  When you put down the terrain decal and save it, the rest of the KK spawn behavior (in my version) stops working.  You have to leave the scene and return to it for it to function again.  Making a launch site nearby saves time when you have to do that.

5: If, in later stages, the game starts telling you the new launch site is non functional, you have to reboot the game (in my version).

6: I'm assigning groups by IKAO code now.  So the airport I'm working right now on all contains statics grouped as XWCMC.  I'm going to put those all into a folder structure as follows:  Kerbinside Remastered/Airports/International/[AIRPORT IKAO]

 

Touching on 6 above, because I plan so many airports, I'm organizing the bases into subfolders.  Airports with subfolders 'Spaceport', 'International', 'Regional', and 'Local'.

I was considering sub-subfolders for IKAO regions, but I don't have THAT many airports in each category, and alphabetical ordering will organize them into groups at that point anyway.

 

 

EDIT: On heliports.

Found this:

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/150_5390_2c.pdf

 

Got some good stuff, but would need to have a modeler attack it.

 

 

 

 

I never thought all of a sudden I'd see 14 CFR, ICAO, and all the AC's, and AD's, on KSP. :wink: 

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46 minutes ago, Eskandare said:

I never thought all of a sudden I'd see 14 CFR, ICAO, and all the AC's, and AD's, on KSP. :wink: 

I've been wanting to do airports that looked like airports almost since before Kerbinside came out, when it was just Kerbin City.

 

I now have working tools, and I plan to make use of them.  And I want to give players airports to suit everything from epic spaceplanes, down to short-hop props.  With the right setup, I'd love to see small planes do circumnavigation hops with all the local airports I plan to install.

 

 

EDIT: @Bottle Rocketeer 500

Do you want to take the Intl. Airport location that was Kerbin City?  I was planning to make that 'The Biggest' of the INTL airports with maybe FOUR runways total.  Might be neat to model it after Atlanta Hartsfield Jackson's layout.  Though I may slap down one that has a field layout like Denver.  It's got a solid terminal design.

Edited by AdmiralTigerclaw

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@AdmiralTigerclaw Maybe we should leave Kerbin City alone. I am currently using it in my install. Somehow, after I installed KS Remastered, approach lights (those in this mod) showed up near the runway. Therefore, I am hypothesizing that KSR has some built in support for Kerbin City.  For K, I was planning somewhere near the spot on the map labeled Green Coast, as like a popular vacation destination for really really rich Kerbals. Also, I can make some 1m by 1m concrete square statics, hopefully using @Omega482's textures for grass and asphalt. For now, change the color of the concrete to 186, 186, 186 (RGB), or 0, 0, 72 (HSV).

Edited by Bottle Rocketeer 500

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15 minutes ago, Bottle Rocketeer 500 said:

@AdmiralTigerclaw Maybe we should leave Kerbin City alone. I am currently using it in my instal. Somehow, after I installed KS Remastered, approach lights (those in this mod) showed up near the runway. Therefore, I am hypothesizing that KSR has some built in support for Kerbin City.  For K, I was planning somewhere near the spot on the map labeled Green Coast, as like a popular vacation destination for really really rich Kerbals. Also, I can make some 1m by 1m concrete square statics, hopefully using @Omega482's textures for grass and asphalt. For now, change the color of the concrete to 186, 186, 186 (RGB), or 0, 0, 72 (HSV).

 

I've got a Regional slated for the North side of Green Coast.  There's a lake there with a small section of land jutting out into the ocean at 36.5N by 88.5W.

All the positions I've marked on my plan map are referenced through Temporary Kerbal Maps.  Since it shows terrain in much more clear detail and allows me to poke about.

 

The locations I was planning for INTL airports in area K were:

- Kerbin City's bay, at 6.5S by 84W on the south side of the bay.  We might need to ask @Eskandare if he knows anything about Kerbin City.   And Kerbin City's airport.  We could always shift X-KKCI down a bit so that they don't overlap.  Multiple large airports in close proximity aren't unheard of.  The strip of land at 8.52S by 83.6W might be a good alternate that's enough out of the way.

- A bay in the NE part of area K at 29.2N by 21W 

 

I have 10 intl airports slated, and strangely I just realized that when I made the map key, I somehow chopped 30 degrees of far eastern longitude completely off my plan map.  I thought I only counted nine Xs.

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@AdmiralTigerclaw I am starting to get bored aligning  and re-aligning statics! Sorry to say, but I will cancel the other two airports. Now, I am working on X-KJMK, or Jebediah M. Kerman Int'l Airport, which will be the big one with 4 runways. It will be at about 29.2N and 21W. Currently, I have 1 runway with 2 taxiways placed.

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8 hours ago, Bottle Rocketeer 500 said:

@AdmiralTigerclaw I am starting to get bored aligning  and re-aligning statics! Sorry to say, but I will cancel the other two airports. Now, I am working on X-KJMK, or Jebediah M. Kerman Int'l Airport, which will be the big one with 4 runways. It will be at about 29.2N and 21W. Currently, I have 1 runway with 2 taxiways placed.

 

"Now you know muh' pain."

 

Yeah, like I've been going on about, aligning the parts is tiring.  But I will persevere.  And luckily, the locals won't be so complicated, being a lot smaller and all.

 

Incidentally, something else I'm doing as I make the airports. 

DeDZ15f.png

 

And before anyone thinks I'm going a bit overboard...   I figure, it's easy, it's simple, it's useful.  I can enter data as I go and stick it in the folder for players to reference.  Minimum Effort and all that.

Edited by AdmiralTigerclaw

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7 hours ago, AdmiralTigerclaw said:

 

"Now you know muh' pain."

 

Yeah, like I've been going on about, aligning the parts is tiring.  But I will persevere.  And luckily, the locals won't be so complicated, being a lot smaller and all.

 

Incidentally, something else I'm doing as I make the airports. 

DeDZ15f.png

 

And before anyone thinks I'm going a bit overboard...   I figure, it's easy, it's simple, it's useful.  I can enter data as I go and stick it in the folder for players to reference.  Minimum Effort and all that.

Keep updating that spreadsheet. My semester is almost over, so I’ll have more spare time once grades are done. I’ve got some tools at work to play with that I think I can make something really cool for you with that data. 

One request: as you finish these airports, can you provide screenshots of them from directly overhead?

Edited by MaxPeck

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Wow... I love the work you guys are doing. Sad part is, I want to build some actual terminal looking statics for you guys, but I have NO clue where to get started. I have Unity, but idk what else I need to make this happen. Someone interested in educating me? 

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8 hours ago, kingstevenrules said:

Wow... I love the work you guys are doing. Sad part is, I want to build some actual terminal looking statics for you guys, but I have NO clue where to get started. I have Unity, but idk what else I need to make this happen. Someone interested in educating me? 

 

I would have done this a while back myself, but I can't adjust to the learning curve of 3D modeling software.

 

Anywhozle, I was thinking about another function that KK has, and that's the various facilities available.  I've been considering two things to add to my list of things to do.

 

1: Utilizing the 'barracks' and 'business' facilities, create 'oil rigs' out in the ocean that you must land helicopters on and activate to automatically produce funds for the player.  There are no spawns here.  You have to find them and land there.

2: Taking that concept one step further, utilizing the 'merchant' function to create resource stations that you must create a vehicle that must land at, purchase the supply, and fly back to another airport where you can 'sell' the resource.

And the way to keep the player from spoofing it with the 'recover' option would be to use the value multipliers.  Purchasing the raw resource at multiplier one at the source facility.  The source facility would also have a sell-back value, but that would be at 1 or even 0.98 to force a loss if the player is clunky.  Then, at the selling airports, have the sell value be a multiplier of 1.5 to 2, and a buyback of 1.6 to 2.1 to discourage it.   In this manner, sourcing resources and flying them to specific terminals becomes an operational task that requires money and kerbals to create a plane with the correct hold and mechanics to arrive at the destination, money to purchase the resource, and the flying prowess to conduct the round trip to the selling terminal.

Heck, the value of selling and the profit to be made can even be adjusted by proximity of the selling terminal to the sourcing locations.

 

Example:  an 'Oil' well complex in the West Kulge desert could be purchased for 1 F a liter.  Or whatever the base price would be.   Flying a tank of this to a nearby terminal would have a selling value of 1.1.  But fly the resource to Gnosis and deliver it to Badlands could be set to net 2.2 F. 

You could create an entire player-run resourcing operation with static bases alone.

 

And that has me wondering, I need to check what the vanilla resources are, or even if it could be easy to create something that can be used expressly here without breaking other mods or resulting in a dependency for the community resource pack.

 

 

EDIT:

Okay, here's more or less a .rar with the folder structure and the first two airports I've done.  I'll get around to taking aerial images for @MaxPeck later. 

http://www.mediafire.com/file/ywe4ceiidy7qn4f/KSRAirports.rar

 

 

And just in case a mod comes by to gripe about the files needing a license...

 

There is no license!  You are free to mess around with this all day and even sell it to your neighbor!  Because I'm so confident these automatically generated KK configurations will bring much profits!  (I don't have an [Asuna] 'Staaaaaare...' [/Asuna] emoticon to put on the end of it, so just imagine this.) 

 

 

Edited by AdmiralTigerclaw

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@AdmiralTigerclaw For X-KJMK, can I change it to only 2 runways, because it seems like 4 in way way way too much! One runway is done now, so I just want to do 1 more and then the tarmac and stuff. Then, can I do a small local in region K where Jeb's Island Resort used to be in KS Classic?

Edited by Bottle Rocketeer 500

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