putnamto

why do you play this?

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2 minutes ago, DeltaDizzy said:

I dont think you need to uninstall your game, but other than that, it looks good.

you sure? last time i attempted this it led me to where i am now.

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im looking at my mods on ckan.

what is firespitter and firespitter resources? im assuming its just a requirment for something else.

ive also noticed that konstruction isnt listed in my installed mods in ckan......but i have the parts in the game, that might be why its not working.

 

these are the mods im keeping.

chatterer
collision fx
comm category kit
comm resource
contract parser
contract window+
craft history
docking port sound fx
duna resto
easy vessel switch
easy booard
EVE
KAS
KAR
KIS
kerbokatz utilities
kopernicus
mechjeb 2
modular flight integrator
module manager
progress parser
scatterer
scatterer - default config
Scatterer - sunflare
SVE
SVE high res
Texture Replacer
Vens stock part

is their any problem with this list? im thinking about getting rid of the scatterer sunflare and getting the sve med textures instead of high.

oh almost forgot about konstruction

edit: firespitter has something to do with helicoptors and planes, i dont know why i have it, is it a requirement for something i have?

also on the listt of mods i have are planetshine, rcs buildaid and dock rotate.

Edited by putnamto

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Firespitter is a dependency of something. I always end up with it and I never directly install it. Your mod list includes a bunch of things I use and some things I don't know anything about so I cannot say for certain there are no clashes. My advice is to copy the whole install to another folder, remove all the mods, then install only the ones you need to load the station in question (parts only, no textures). Double check that the installed version is compatible with the version of KSP you are running. If that goes well and docking ports are now working, load mods one at a time and test it again. If it doesn't work then the problem is with one needed for the station. Removing anything truly needed will destroy the station so finding where the clash is will be a little harder.

You said you also have dock rotate. I have been tempted to use that but I understand it to have problems when using autostruts (which I use). If you use autostruts from KJR or in the VAB/SPH when building you might try to turn off the autostruts prior to docking then turn the autostruts back on(not sure of the procedure here but the dock rotate mod page has info on this). That might be the root of the problem. Hopefully the problem shows itself without too much trouble, good luck.

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14 hours ago, putnamto said:

Each  module  needs  batteries, monoprop, reaction  wheels, monoprop  thrusters,  probe core and  solar  panels.

No, it doesn't.   The Tug Boat that puts each module there does.  Each section of my stations only have a handful of parts, the rest of the workings are on the detachable, reusable, recoverable space tug launch vehicle.   Consider each station module a payload to be delivered, not a vessel itself.   The only thing I've ever had to add was occasionaly some RCS ports on the docking end of large unwieldy sections. 

Step 1) Build your complete station in the VAB.  Include Konstruction ports.

2) Remove all the modules you will be launching later and save them as sub-assemblies.

3) Add a launcher to the remaining core of the station.  The core will need the vitals you listed above, but usually won't need RCS, just SAS to keep it from wiggling.   You will launch directly into your desired orbit.  De-orbit the launcher/engine sections, this thing is intended to be stranded. 

4) Make a SPACE TUG.  Go heavy on RCS and SAS wheels, it'll need the tourque.  Top it off with a docking port of your choice, and have a fairing right below that.

u4N8CP4.png

5) Slap about 30t (or the desired amount, I have a whole line of tugs designed for different payload masses) of dead payload on top of it to allow you to build an appropriate launcher to match:

p4xLJL6.png

6) Remove the dead payload , and save the vessel:

F8c8Iqc.png

7) Now anytime you want to launch a module to a station, open up this vessel first.  Grab one of your subassemblies from the sub assembly menu.  Notice how few parts it has, and for me this is an overly complicated module, as it is for a landed munar base:

W2ZfTwa.png

8) Now, as you have previously found out, Konstruction ports don't work as intended if they are the root part.  And in the sub-assembly you have just built, they are just that.   So click the re-root tool, and re-root to the part you want to attach to the Tug:

ERPwnnD.png

Xzpt5eJ.png

Notice how the cupola module is now the root, and attachable, part in this sub-assembly.  Drop that onto the top of the SPACE TUG.

9) Now save it as something else other than SPACE TUG.  You want the space tug save to be a naked vessel you can call up at any time.

10)  If desired, add RCS ports to the far end end of the module to dock.  This will help with docking and translation.

aL9HO5S.png

11) Add fairings to flavor.  Because this module was short and light enough, I added a second one, so I could build the station symmetrically, and reduce the number of launches.  Notice I connected each cupola directly to the docking ports, without using a second port.  If you are adding a module that has docking ports on the end, you can do the same thing.  Non similar docking ports (ie a jr connected to a Sr) are coupled, not docked, but will work just fine in flight.  But once they are separated, they cannot be redocked:

BH4zRNG.png

12)  LAUNCH!  Since your Tug has all the vitals in it, your modules won't need probe cores, and the tug will handle all the flight operations.  If possible, launch directly to rendezvous.  If not,  plan ahead so your tug with the payload will have enough DV to rendezvous, dock and be recovered (if desired).

0QrQh7b.png

13)  After rendezvousing with the target (I'm using the first module as my target, I don't have any valid targets in flight at the moment), dock with the target:

9X23OgX.png

14) After getting the desired alignment, and docking, you can then weld the Konstruction ports.  Then select "Decouple Node" from the Tug's Port menu, and decouple the tug:

bOr2Z7Y.png

E6yw9NV.png

15) Profit.

If you noticed I have chutes on all my stages.  I use StageRecovery to recover all the spent ascent stages, and with the tug also being recoverable (aside from the docking port and fairing, which tend to burn up in re-entry), the vessel is almost 100% recoverable.   Initially, it is a little time consuming to build the tug.  But once it's done, it's just plug and play for launching each module.  In my design, I adjust the thrust limiter on the SRB's to get the desired TWR for the variety of payload masses I will encounter. 

This method of orbital construction keeps costs and part counts to a minimum.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, putnamto said:

konstruction isnt listed in my installed mods in ckan

Check to make sure you are using the correct version of Kon for the version of KSP you are running.  CKAN lists Konstruction for me, but I am still running 1.3.1.

Edited by Gargamel

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As I said. Tug boats   ships? crafts?.... for the win!

 

Edited by Mark Kerbin

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thanks gargamel, i never quite understood what people meant by tugs.

basically its a midstage tank and engine with all the necessary  things like rcs and solar and batteries.
i originally thought you would have a small ship attached to the station, you would then fly your payload into physics range, switch to the docked ship, undock fly over and pick it up.

a quick question about mods now, ive reinstalled everything and launched the game, so far most things seem to be working accept my water looks like blue koolaid now.
am i missing something?
in installed
chatterer
collision fx
comm category kit
comm resource pack
contract parser
contracts window+
craft history
dock rotate
docking port sound fx
duna resto
easy board
EVE
firespitter core
indicator lights
indicator lights comm extensions
KAS/KIS
KER
Konstruction
kopernicus
mechjeb
planetshine
SVE
SVE high res
and a bunch of dependencies.

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1 minute ago, putnamto said:

thanks gargamel, i never quite understood what people meant by tugs.

basically its a midstage tank and engine with all the necessary  things like rcs and solar and batteries.
i originally thought you would have a small ship attached to the station, you would then fly your payload into physics range, switch to the docked ship, undock fly over and pick it up.

a quick question about mods now, ive reinstalled everything and launched the game, so far most things seem to be working accept my water looks like blue koolaid now.
am i missing something?
in installed
chatterer
collision fx
comm category kit
comm resource pack
contract parser
contracts window+
craft history
dock rotate
docking port sound fx
duna resto
easy board
EVE
firespitter core
indicator lights
indicator lights comm extensions
KAS/KIS
KER
Konstruction
kopernicus
mechjeb
planetshine
SVE
SVE high res
and a bunch of dependencies.

Ehhh. Blue Koolaid you say?

That would be SVE having a derp. Change Scenes or reload game.

 

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6 minutes ago, Mark Kerbin said:

Ehhh. Blue Koolaid you say?

That would be SVE having a derp. Change Scenes or reload game.

 

Thats  what  I  thought  also, ill  live  with  it

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35 minutes ago, putnamto said:


basically its a midstage tank and engine with all the necessary  things like rcs and solar and batteries.
i originally thought you would have a small ship attached to the station, you would then fly your payload into physics range, switch to the docked ship, undock fly over and pick it up

That is also viable too, where the cost of transferring the payload and the tug would be too high.  For like a Duna station, you could have a dedicated tug docked at the station (with an assortment of docking ports and claws available to it).  Then using a smaller transfer vehicle, send the payload to Duna, and catch it with the tug, then have it placed on the station. 

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On 4/30/2018 at 8:44 PM, putnamto said:

does squad even have a Q and A department?

This forum is the Q/A department.  thought that you could figure that out by yourself.

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7 hours ago, Fraston said:

This forum is the Q/A department.  thought that you could figure that out by yourself.

The entire internet is the q/a department.

:P

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3 hours ago, Mark Kerbin said:

The entire internet is the q/a department.

:P

Yeah, I guess so

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13 hours ago, Gargamel said:

No, it doesn't.   The Tug Boat that puts each module there does.  Each section of my stations only have a handful of parts, the rest of the workings are on the detachable, reusable, recoverable space tug launch vehicle.   Consider each station module a payload to be delivered, not a vessel itself.   The only thing I've ever had to add was occasionaly some RCS ports on the docking end of large unwieldy sections. 

 

I've used a method like this too and it works well. I almost always put RCS ports on my payload. It makes docking a lot easier and, since you're using KAS, it's easy enough to send a kerbal out to remove the RCS ports after docking.

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You could also go Matt Lowe style and just detach all the rcs tanks and stuff after use.

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Because it's a Sandbox. Just like Sim City or Transport Tycoon. Or even FSX. Or to a stretch, ETS2 and ATS.

 

 

But on the serious end...

@putnamto If you've been using modifications, it's sort of a thing that since 1.4 kicks in, quite a number of changes was made/required from both sides (modders and developers). It takes a good while for the modifications to be updated - everyone has a life IRL and sometimes there's just this nasty thing that needs divine intervention. So please be patient.

If you can't be arsed to give some patience, downgrading your game version is always an option.

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I do basically this, but I also have a small module attached to the front of the docking port with a probe core, rcs tank, and rcs thrusters.  A couple of meters out I uncouple this module and quickly thrust it out of the way.

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My "tricks" to reduce part count and improve performance on stations and bases consist mainly on using KIS to directly attach new modules instead of docking, or removing parts that are no longer necessary. 

My goal is to have all permanent space station modules attached without using docking ports, leaving the docking ports exclusively for docking visiting vessels. 

 

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1 hour ago, kerbonara said:

My "tricks" to reduce part count and improve performance on stations and bases consist mainly on using KIS to directly attach new modules instead of docking, or removing parts that are no longer necessary. 

My goal is to have all permanent space station modules attached without using docking ports, leaving the docking ports exclusively for docking visiting vessels. 

 

You should check this out.  This will let you dock a new module, then weld them together (Attaches the new module while removing both ports)

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I have this weird thing I call 'Game Cycles'. It essentially causes me to become addicted to game after game after game in a never ending loop. I remember recognizing this when I was playing Field Runners II on my ancient ipad a few years back. I was addicted to it, and that was all i'd play for about three months. Then, after I start getting bored with a game, it's like an instant wave of overwhelming boredom- it's almost indescribable how bored I would get. Then after a few days of boredom I develop a kind of 'Craving' for a game that I haven't played or I already have, and I get into a high of being amazing by it and never wanting to be apart from the game so much it can seem like the boredom of not playing said game is physically hurting me- during the 'High' phase said game is the main source of entertainment, and playing it is exhilerating. Then I'll play a game for a few months with a declining interest in it, gradually playing it less and less until I get to the overwhelmingly bored stage again and the cycle repeats it.

I'm currently in the 'declining' phase of the game cycle with KSP, but doubtless I'll be addicted to it again in a few months.

 

Edited by Kernel Kraken

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2 hours ago, Kernel Kraken said:

I have this weird thing I call 'Game Cycles'. It essentially causes me to become addicted to game after game after game in a never ending loop. I remember recognizing this when I was playing Field Runners II on my ancient ipad a few years back. I was addicted to it, and that was all i'd play for about three months. Then, after I start getting bored with a game, it's like an instant wave of overwhelming boredom- it's almost indescribable how bored I would get. Then after a few days of boredom I develop a kind of 'Craving' for a game that I haven't played or I already have, and I get into a high of being amazing by it and never wanting to be apart from the game so much it can seem like the boredom of not playing said game is physically hurting me- during the 'High' phase said game is the main source of entertainment, and playing it is exhilerating. Then I'll play a game for a few months with a declining interest in it, gradually playing it less and less until I get to the overwhelmingly bored stage again and the cycle repeats it.

I'm currently in the 'declining' phase of the game cycle with KSP, but doubtless I'll be addicted to it again in a few months.

 

im mostly the same way, but im also a completionist, and that doesnt tend to work with sandbox games because their isnt really ever an end.

and i tend to get a little huffy when i find out that my goal cant be reached.

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23 hours ago, Gargamel said:

[ginormous quoted post snipped for brevity]



after scouring through your pictures im wondering if i have this correct, the tug actually stays connected to the module until the module docks, then the tug decouples and then flies into a deteriorating orbit until its recovered?

so basically each of my modules should just be the bare necessities, how do you go about landing that on your target though? an engine module or something?

and im assuming trial and error is the only way to learn how many parts my computer can handle at a time. what kind of framerate should i be looking for before the game starts messing up? my previous station(the one that i wine about all the time) has 369 parts and in HKO i only get 15-20 fps, the game still responds to input and isnt to bad in terms of playability but im guessing anything under 30 would cause problems with physics and such?

Edited by Vanamonde

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16 hours ago, Tyko said:

since you're using KAS, it's easy enough to send a kerbal out to remove the RCS ports after docking.

Oh... never thought of that.   I'll keep that in my back pocket.    But me and KIS aren't the best of friends at times.  I've accidentally detached huge single parts from my stations while trying to add small parts. 

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7 hours ago, putnamto said:

 


so basically each of my modules should just be the bare necessities, how do you go about landing that on your target though? an engine module or something?

Not sure what you mean there.   If you imagine the first section I undocked in the post as the "target Station", the Tug and payload dock with the station, and then the tug undocks and deorbits (either burning up or being recovered.  As mentioned With Stage recovery, I deorbit probes likes this whene ever I feel like, and SR will handle all the recovery for me, in the background).

Or do you mean the Ground base I was building?   glad you asked!  I do the land, tip, pucker, and pray method.   I have screen shots for the What did you do today thread, but I never posted them.  So here ya go:

Base in flight (or pre landing, or perhaps at landing, hard to tell):

qxhQxvX.png

Base after tipping over:

t4T1v0L.png

 

Ok, so let me break it down for you.  You can see the two Hab modules pointing towards and away from you in both pics.   Those were launched and docked using the exact same launcher from the previous post (I literally just brought up that save to do that post).   The core of the base, (the Science Lab, the 4 way Hub, and un-opened greenhouse), were launched as one piece (since it's long and pointy), and the Engine module was launched with it attached.    I built the base in total, with the engine module so I could get good Dv info for planning.  That module is the minmus transfer stage and landing stage in one.  Notice it has solar panels for use in flight since the base panels only point "up".  It's also heavy on the RCS for control, but there is no probe core on it, that's part of the base itself. 

Landing is done vertically, as shown in the first pic.  But if you notice, the engine module only has legs on one side of it.  The 'dorsal' set of legs is set lower then the 'lateral' set of legs, so upon landing, the whole contraption will immediately start to tip over, with the base legs pointing down.   I have (unseen) RCS blocks way out on the 'nose' of the base, so I can thrust those if needed to ease the base down.    Because I play with "No persistent Debris" setting on, after decoupling the engine module, and switch vessels, the engine module will have disappeared.   But you can easily use the KOnstruction rovers to build something to haul it away. 

7 hours ago, putnamto said:


and im assuming trial and error is the only way to learn how many parts my computer can handle at a time. what kind of framerate should i be looking for before the game starts messing up? my previous station(the one that i wine about all the time) has 369 parts and in HKO i only get 15-20 fps, the game still responds to input and isnt to bad in terms of playability but im guessing anything under 30 would cause problems with physics and such?

Minimum frame rate?  As low as you can handle.  I giggle with glee when my clock turns green, but it's usually yellow, sometimes red.    And that's just for normal launches.   I use mechjeb to do a lot of the routine work like rendezvous and docking just because the low frame rate makes it very slow.    But I'm not the one to ask about this, I play on minimum settings and I'm happy when my load time is under 15 minutes.   I've had times with Huge ships docking with each other where my frame rate was measured in seconds per frame. 

 

Edited by Gargamel

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lol at the minimum frame rate.

what kind of engines did you use to land the surface station? i cant tell from the picture? ants?

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