p1t1o

Shower thoughts

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Ok, completely random shower thought. How come it is four, fourteen, four hundred, fourth (as in fourth place), one-fourth, four thousand, but forty? Does anyone else see the discontinuity of the English numbering system?

Edited by adsii1970
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2 hours ago, adsii1970 said:

Ok, completely random shower thought. How come it is four, fourteen, four hundred, fourth (as in fourth place), one-fourth, four thousand, but forty? Does anyone else see the discontinuity of the English numbering system?

This one gets me all the time. I write it as fourty

I am also perplexed by this though... Apparently "fourty" is obsolete. Let's bring it back. Like the thorn...

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27 minutes ago, Bill Phil said:

This one gets me all the time. I write it as fourty

I am also perplexed by this though... Apparently "fourty" is obsolete. Let's bring it back. Like the thorn...

I was depositing a check today and the cashier, an older lady, remarked that the local business misspelled it fourty-four dollars instead of forty-four...

I agree, let's bring it back...

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1 hour ago, Bill Phil said:

Let's bring it back. Like the thorn...

Þis is a great idea.  Can we bring back oðer characters, too?

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11 hours ago, razark said:

Þis is a great idea.  Can we bring back oðer characters, too?

Like the long S in English rather than the tacky ss (double s). The word bass would be written as baʃ. It is the English equivalent of the German β, such as in the word, strauβe... rather than writing out strausse...

Edited by adsii1970
Added symbol for clarification...

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14 hours ago, p1t1o said:

If i walk into a cafe in Bangkok and ask someone what year is it, are they going to tell me its 2561?

They will answer: "Any at your wish, sir!"

Edited by kerbiloid

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I couldn't sleep last night. So, at 3:20 a.m., decided that I would go ahead and get out of bed. Shaved, brushed my teeth (which makes no sense), and took a mild (not hot nor cold) shower. While I was in there, I had the most random thought pop into my head...

We hear so much today about cultural appropriation and how wrong it is for one ethnic group to "borrow" or integrate another ethnic group's cultural elements into their own. This 21st Century phenomenon - of denouncing past practices - would lead to cultural isolation, and if actually implemented, would be disastrous. So, to stay away from politics and a potential 2.2 violation, let's take the culinary route.

If it is wrong to "appropriate" any element of another's culture, then spaghetti can't be made anywhere in the world. Not even Italy because spaghetti isn't even Italian.

  • The noodles are a variation of Chinese noodles acquired during trade with the Far East.
  • Until the late 1400s, tomatoes were grown in southern Europe but were believed to be poisonous. It wasn't until Columbus taught the Spanish that the American Indians in Hispaniola were using a variety as food that the tomato craze in Europe was born - so the marinara sauce is out, too.
  • And sausage? Well, we're not sure where the sausage actually comes from - but one thing is for sure, Italian sausage may contain a uniquely Italian blend of herbs and spices but the concept came from outside of Italy. Right now, it appears the concept of sausage had one common place where it might have originated - Mongolia. (Side note, the sausage type of the Italian sausage is closely related to the Germanic/Hunnish sausages, which are a direct offshoot of the Mongolian types of sausage).
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5 minutes ago, adsii1970 said:

I couldn't sleep last night. So, at 3:20 a.m., decided that I would go ahead and get out of bed. Shaved, brushed my teeth (which makes no sense), and took a mild (not hot nor cold) shower. While I was in there, I had the most random thought pop into my head...

We hear so much today about cultural appropriation and how wrong it is for one ethnic group to "borrow" or integrate another ethnic group's cultural elements into their own. This 21st Century phenomenon - of denouncing past practices - would lead to cultural isolation, and if actually implemented, would be disastrous. So, to stay away from politics and a potential 2.2 violation, let's take the culinary route.

If it is wrong to "appropriate" any element of another's culture, then spaghetti can't be made anywhere in the world. Not even Italy because spaghetti isn't even Italian.

  • The noodles are a variation of Chinese noodles acquired during trade with the Far East.
  • Until the late 1400s, tomatoes were grown in southern Europe but were believed to be poisonous. It wasn't until Columbus taught the Spanish that the American Indians in Hispaniola were using a variety as food that the tomato craze in Europe was born - so the marinara sauce is out, too.
  • And sausage? Well, we're not sure where the sausage actually comes from - but one thing is for sure, Italian sausage may contain a uniquely Italian blend of herbs and spices but the concept came from outside of Italy. Right now, it appears the concept of sausage had one common place where it might have originated - Mongolia. (Side note, the sausage type of the Italian sausage is closely related to the Germanic/Hunnish sausages, which are a direct offshoot of the Mongolian types of sausage).

Not all use of concepts from other cultures falls under what is meant by "cultural appropriation". Even though it is not explicit in the term, it generally means "When done without respect".

Ergo, making a delicious chinese-italian fusion dish is not cultural appropriation. (Yes I have seen chinese-italian being fused. No i didnt get to try it, sadly.)

But if you are a rich white rapper rapping about the hardships of growing up on the streets, thats cultural appropriation.

I think.

 

If I (white) write a beautiful tune with afro-carribean influences, that is not cultural appropriation.

If I learn chinese kung-fu to the best of my ability, that is not cultural appropriation.

But if I learn kung-fu for 6 weeks, then write long articles about how expert I am and how the ancient chinese werent very good at it and how I have improved it for them, that is cultural appropriation. I'd be taking kung fu and calling it mine, or saying that what I made it into makes the "original" look bad.

On the other hand, if I study kung fu for 35 years putting in intensive practical and academic work, visiting experts and masters in china, writing well received articles about how parts of kung fu can be improved with modern knowledge...not cultural appropriation because it is done with respect to the original culture and not to bash another culture to make myself look good.

 

Think if it as stealing. If you take a concept but dont give anything back, or you use it to pass yourself off as superior, thats stealing.

But if you borrow, by taking a concept and creating something that stands on its own, increases the beauty of both the donor culture and recipient culture, without needing to denigrate or disrespect or bend the truth or lie, that is ok.

 

Ok that is a really ham-fisted analogy but hopefully my point is visible, its a minefield for sure.

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58 minutes ago, adsii1970 said:

And sausage? Well, we're not sure where the sausage actually comes from

It came from any animal having guts to stuff them with food and boil/fry. 

Instead of plastic bags.
First - because the plastic bags are environment-unfriendly.
Second - because they didn't have plastic bags.

Also we have 50 shades of shawerma (aka burrito, donor, bliny s miasom, and thousand other names).

Imho, 80% of any culture is basically the same, and 20% are useless bells and whistles.
Say, Chinese and Russian cultures are not similar at all, but though Russians eat crawfishes while Chinese eat various other invertebrates, all of them prefer pork.
If remove jedi-looking gestures and screams from kung-fu, the useful rest doesn't differ a lot from European face-beating systems, just more philosophical. Anyway, general fitness decides.

Just there is some climatic line from NW to SE Europe: to the North they drink beer, vodka, and eat cabbage, to the south they drink wine and eat olives.
If we have a look at the map, those smart Swiss got the idea.

Edited by kerbiloid

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45 minutes ago, p1t1o said:

Not all use of concepts from other cultures falls under what is meant by "cultural appropriation". Even though it is not explicit in the term, it generally means "When done without respect".

Not necessarily. In the strict interpretation being used by some academics, it is the absorption of elements of one culture into another. And now, (if you're an evolutionist) after 275,000 years of human history (or if you are a creationist, 5779 years of human existence), somehow it is wrong? And the done "without respect" statement? We often do things without any thought to it... such as...

49 minutes ago, p1t1o said:

But if you are a rich white rapper rapping about the hardships of growing up on the streets, thats cultural appropriation.

Not exactly cultural appropriation by any stretch of imagination. Just because the rich white rapper is singing about something he has no reference to doesn't mean he's culturally appropriating. How many country singers sang about robbing trains, riding horses, cattle drives, etc... This isn't the same thing as cultural appropriation in the slightest. If that were the case, there's not any artist - except for folk music, jazz and blues, and classical music who could stand a charge of "cultural appropriation." Even non-white traditional hip-hop artists don't live half of the lifestyle they sing about in their music...

I mean, do we really think that Johnny Cash had this experience:

Spoiler

 

So what, for the sake of artistry, do we consider as creative license versus cultural appropriation? :confused: Personally, I think it is a red herring being used as a battering ram. I see nothing wrong with folks eating what they like, dressing in whatever fashion style they enjoy, then do it. Life is not meant to be lived by arbitrary "politically correct" guidelines. As someone who studies and teaches history, human history is full of "cultural appropriations" of some sort or another. In all eras of human history, as a civilization is exposed to something new, they either reject foreign ideas, or if the ideas appear to be superior, they will adapt them to suit their culture.

If aliens were to land a spacecraft in New York, Beijing, Moscow, Toledo, or New Delhi this afternoon, there would be some sort of cultural exchange which would lead to cultural appropriation. Let's say they had some sort of foodstuff which was an organism which had characteristics of both plant fiber and animal-based protein, we'd soon see this pleat sold in grocery stores, on FoodTV, and quite possibly as McPleat at your local McDonald's! And if we never saw the aliens again, within two generations, those folks would never knew where we got the technology or where it came from... and would still be enjoying it. But the way "cultural appropriation" is being defined today, this would be seen as a negative thing...

 

47 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

It came from any animal having guts to stuff them with food and boil/fry.

Yes, but apparently, the concept of sausage begins in Mongolia. In the Nordic cultures, they didn't do the whole sausage thing, but dried meats, similar to the eastern American Indians. The western American Indians, Pacific Islanders and Asiatic peoples did smoked drying or salt drying preserving techniques for meat. Kinda cool to study food history...

49 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

Instead of plastic bags.
First - because the plastic bags are environment-unfriendly.
Second - because they didn't have plastic bags.

No plastic bags until 1957. Sausage predates plastic bags. :)

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1 minute ago, adsii1970 said:

Yes, but apparently, the concept of sausage begins in Mongolia. In the Nordic cultures, they didn't do the whole sausage thing, but dried meats, similar to the eastern American Indians. The western American Indians, Pacific Islanders and Asiatic peoples did smoked drying or salt drying preserving techniques for meat. Kinda cool to study food history...

Probably any herding culture was having some stuffed guts meal (say, Russian "guts with porridge"). (Or sometimes lungs filled with soar milk).
So as all Indoeuropean and Altaic cultures came from more or less same areal between Ural and Pamir where they were cowboys herders, probably Germans just forgot that meals.
Though, they have blood sausages. And Scots make a big spheric sausage from a stomach.

It's also weird to realize that Eurasian "traditional" meals are made of absolutely non-Eurasian plants: potato, tomato, peppers, sunflower, corn, etc.
(And let alone European. Middle East and Caucasian, too.)

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23 minutes ago, adsii1970 said:

Just because the rich white rapper is singing about something he has no reference to doesn't mean he's culturally appropriating.

No?

In my example, its not just that hes singing about something that he doesnt have a reference for, hes singing about something that he hasnt earned the right to sing about, which makes it disrespectful.

What I dont mean, is that any white rapper is appropriating.

Anyhoo, as i said, its a minefield, my previous schpiel was just how I see it :)

Academic context does not always match the colloquial use, and one is often far more prevalent than the other. For instance, "cultural appropriation" in a social context is usually a negative, or an insult, but I can imagine using it in an academic context with none of those flags attached.

 

 

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3 hours ago, p1t1o said:

In my example, its not just that hes singing about something that he doesnt have a reference for, hes singing about something that he hasnt earned the right to sing about, which makes it disrespectful.

Ok, so in that case, why stop there? I strongly disagree with this because we are talking about performing arts. If we follow it to a logical conclusion, then the only people who should portray characters in a war flick should be former soldiers. The only folks who should portray any sort of character in space should be those who have actually been in space. If we are going to say that people have to earn the right to perform a certain genre of any sort of performance art, we must be willing to totally open the Pandora's box that accompanies it.

 

3 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

It's also weird to realize that Eurasian "traditional" meals are made of absolutely non-Eurasian plants: potato, tomato, peppers, sunflower, corn, etc.
(And let alone European. Middle East and Caucasian, too.)

Exactly - kind of like Irish potatoes... which aren't exactly Irish in origin... :)

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In Russia of mid-XIX century there were happening peasant mutinies against potatoes (considered toxic due to their berries).
While currently potato is a typical national food, and villages in folk tales are depicted full of sunflowers. Even more of that in Belarus.

In Caucasian heroic tales the heroes eat and take with them the corn porridge.
Total Adyghe folk cuisine is based on a mix of corn and wheat. While South Caucasian folk cuisine they can't imagine without tomatoes and peppers.

Also I was very surprised when had read that Finnish epic Kalevala which was inspiring Tolkien, was written just in XIX by a well known real man, a professor of St.Petersburg Academy, of Finnish decent.

So, "a long time ago" means a century or two.

Edited by kerbiloid

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56 minutes ago, adsii1970 said:

Ok, so in that case, why stop there? I strongly disagree with this because we are talking about performing arts. If we follow it to a logical conclusion, then the only people who should portray characters in a war flick should be former soldiers. The only folks who should portray any sort of character in space should be those who have actually been in space. If we are going to say that people have to earn the right to perform a certain genre of any sort of performance art, we must be willing to totally open the Pandora's box that accompanies it.

Dont worry, thats not what I mean at all, and acting is a different kettle of fish altogether, if you are acting, you are supposed to be pretending to be something you are not.

The "logical conclusion" is not always a linear extrapolation to infinity.

But...if you met an actor who played a soldier and he started telling you how he knows what it is like to serve in Afghanistan because he played a soldier in the new "transporter" movie, you might think he was being a bit of a butt, right? I don't know if you'd call that "cultural appropriation, but its something.

I find it hard to express these things exactly so Imma quit before I really offend someone ;)

Rest assured, I am of the opinion that the vast majority of cultural crossover, sharing and expression is a good and healthy thing.

 

 

 

Edited by p1t1o

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4 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

It's also weird to realize that Eurasian "traditional" meals are made of absolutely non-Eurasian plants: potato, tomato, peppers, sunflower, corn, etc.
(And let alone European. Middle East and Caucasian, too.)

Its weird indeed. Its probably because most native European food is absolutely nothing compared to the stuff found in America or some other place.

'Peperduur' is a Dutch saying wich litterly translates to 'Pepper-expensive'. So im assuming pepper and other foods/spices that don't taste bitter was the holy grail for Europeans at some point in history.

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53 minutes ago, NSEP said:

Its probably because most native European food is absolutely nothing compared to the stuff found in America or some other place.

What really puzzles me: when those exotic plants were first delivered from America, they were uncomparable to what they are now. Much smaller or else.
But the breeders were the same. So, what was so special in the new plants, that.they have replaced the local ones.

Edited by kerbiloid
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On 14 September 2018 at 5:47 AM, razark said:

Chinese Calendar: 4714
Buddhist Calendar: 2560
Byzantine Calendar: 7526
Ethiopian Calendar: 2010
Hebrew Calendar: 5778
Holocene Calendar: 12018
Islamic Calendar: 1439
Japanese Calendar: Heisei 30
Thai Solar Calendar: 2561

Darian calendar: 217

Tranquility calendar: 50

KR calendar: Year Forty-Three

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On 9/15/2018 at 6:46 AM, kerbiloid said:

Universal Calendar: 13 798 654 378

Man, can you believe its 13798654378 already? Seems like it was 13798654368 just yesterday :D

 

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18 minutes ago, p1t1o said:

Seems like it was 13798654368 just yesterday :D

We can barely follow the 10th digit :(.

The 11th one just looks fused.

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