[1.12.5] TechTrees: QUARTIX 3.7, TETRIX 2.23, SIMPLEX 1.33

[Taki117]

15 hours ago, theJesuit said:

Great idea. This may be part of a yet to be worked on 'extended' mod using some of CTT's nodes.  I'll add it to the list

I don't understand why it doesn't integrate itself, you're using stock nodes, so It should just attach itself to the Nuclear Power node and go from there. Perhaps that's a question for that thread.

[theJesuit]

3 hours ago, Taki117 said:

I don't understand why it doesn't integrate itself, you're using stock nodes

It probably would only on stock.  Give it a go and try .  But not looking at it closely does it not require CTT?  I'm probably not going to put in ALL the CTT nodes, and the mod that will not find CTT installed so I'll have to supply the configs.  That could be an easy copy and paste but it depends on the logic I apply.

Peace.

EDIT I'm going to update the SIMPLEX Living and Resources first, the come back to the tech tree next week. 

 

[Taki117]

12 hours ago, theJesuit said:

It probably would only on stock.  Give it a go and try .  But not looking at it closely does it not require CTT?

Works fine with the Stock Tech Tree, and doesn't appear to require CTT at all. I'll do some more digging and see if I can't find a config or something that I can change.

[Taki117]

@theJesuitI DID IT! Got the two to integrate. It needs help because it looks terrible (Since its positions are based off of the stock tech tree) but it functions.

Here's the config I created to make it work. You probably know more about what needs to be adjusted than I do, I've also included a screenshot of the tech tree so you can see what's going on.

STT Config for KSPIE

 

[theJesuit]

2 hours ago, Taki117 said:

I DID IT! Got the two to integrate. It needs help because it looks terrible

Yes they are not compatable as CTT is alphabetically later than the AngleCan mod folder so applies its patches after Simplex hence the mess.

My plan is actually to 'borrow' CTT nodes and start from stratch.  If you can wait a few weeks then I'll do it.  I have another couple of days of the other mods (Simplex Living needs to come out of Beta) I'd also like to do some playing then I'm going to create the extension for the Simplex TechTree.  I'm still not sure about a separate mod for it yet.  I also want to get the engine nerf part upgrades working.

Also, if KSPI works with Stock then all should be well mostly.  Without the mess.

Peace.

Edited January 22, 2019 by theJesuit

[Taki117]

13 minutes ago, theJesuit said:

Yes they are not compatable as CTT is alphabetically later than the AngleCan mod folder so applies its patches after Simplex hence the mess.

I'll do some more testing to see of I can't fix it. Pulled the SimplexTechTree folder out of the AngleCan folder since AngleCan isn't needed, but MM does have a provision to load one mod after another. 

 

Step 1 was to get them to show up at the same time.

 

Step 2: ???

 

Step 3: Profit!

[theJesuit]

8 hours ago, Taki117 said:

Step 2: ???

Yea, KSPI(E)?) is a much larger mod than I initially expected so this may be a medium term project I think and I'm afraid.  The best bet for easier intergration would be to look at KSPIE's HPTechTree patch and go from there.

Happily too all the parts are already setup to use the CTT nodes, almost as if it was expected you had CTT, ETT or HPTechTree installed, so the over patching won't be an issue.  As long as my nodes are called the same it should slot right in.

So, I'll look into it, but it won't be a next couple of weeks I'm afraid.

Peace.

 

[Taki117]

No worries. I've already made some progress, but it involves deleting the other tech tree configs in KSPIE, if I can figure out how to stop them from loading I can pass the config on to you so you don't have to start from scratch and instead just adjust the node positions so it looks good.

[theJesuit]

@Taki117.  It is better to support other mods without people having to delete additional files.

Also, having two tech trees installed at the same time doesn't seem like a good idea.

Peace.

[theJesuit]

@Taki117 Here we go... a Simplex CTT mashup as I would place them in.  See the old with the new.

To be honest, I hate it.  It is in't perfect, there are a couple of tweaks that would still be needed...

nuclear power and the fusion branch are still out of whack.  The original command pod line should switch around.  And the heading off to the distance isn't great but that is my mistake at this point.

Needless to say, this would be something like the patch to put into CTT.

So, I'd be looking at a scaled back CTT tie in I think, regardless I think next update i'd moving the resources scanners up to sit with largeProbes.

So for the CTT stuff, what to people think/ want?

 

 

[Therese]

I can't say what I would want it to look like or include (not without thinking about it), but I just want to say that I appreciate your continious work on this mod, and improving it. I'm sure you'll end up with something you like in the end
My only input now would be to update the "supported mods" list, if it isn't already.

[theJesuit]

Thanks.  To be fair I like the stock feel as it is now, but I can see that loading up on the NF tech solar and electrical the stock nodes don't leave much space.

That and mods like SSPX really gum up the construction and crew module nodesso more would be helpful there too.

The engineering branch can get crowded too.

But rest assured there will always be the current Simplex stock based tree the extended will be an optional extra.

Next update will be adding in part upgrades (blocks) for some engines that will give better atmospheric stats that are nerfed.  This won't take them back too ksp stock though and the base nerf may get ever so slightly more severe. Still considering levels.

Peace.

Still keen on more feedback though please.

[Cruesoe]

For me it's the Near Future suite and SSPX redux. Maybe the Universal Storage 2 stuff that could all benefit from a little more room.

Also TACLS and USI Life Support that many people use could do with perhaps a slightly bigger tree.

I personally avoid too many part mods but it would make the tree more universal.

That said I don't like the sprawling nature of CTT and use this Tech Tree as the layout is superior in my opinion. It's clean, and it fits better on the screen.

I was toying with the idea of branches that appear based on what you have installed but so far I've been unable to dynamically adjust the tree layout to make this work and not leave gaps.

Edited February 1, 2019 by Cruesoe

[theJesuit]

3 hours ago, Cruesoe said:

idea of branches that appear based on what you have installed but so far I've been unable to dynamically adjust the tree layout to make this work and not leave gaps.

That would certainly be possible.  As i already do it with IFILS supplying its own nodes.  Also I agree with having it on one screen.  

Ideally I would leave the tree exactly as it is.  Other branches would slot in around it.

More feedback please!

Edited February 1, 2019 by theJesuit

[Taki117]

@theJesuit Holy carp that looks amazing! You've done a far better job with it than I ever could. Hopefully this will integrate with KSPIE and not look like hot garbage (I don't see any reason why it wouldn't) Amazing work and I can't wait for the next update to put it to the test.

[theJesuit]

9 minutes ago, Taki117 said:

Holy carp that looks amazing

Thanks be to the blessèd fish.

Forgot about KSPIE when I put this together .  Yes.  But it it is very messy all the same.

What I'm thinking with CTT now I've slept on it and have seen the nodes:

Premise: all nodes must have unique icons.  I like to think that is my point of difference with HP TECHTREE. 

Create an actual plane spaceplane branch.  Start with props etc.  Two branches, one fuselage wings etc, cockpit and tanks (mk2 mk3 etc) the other engines.  I don't play with planes so I could happily ignore this branch as I do the very top of the TT as it stands  CTT gives enough nodes to fill it out nicely I think.

That would put engines and stability together. Stability on top, engines below and small propulsion branching off both

Nuclear should run parallel to power at the end for the nuclear powering option. With maybe ion, chemical, plasma and nuclear extending out. Would need radiators for nuclear so those run alongside also extended.

A mining branch separated out from the probes.  Maybe this should head down to branch off engineering/construction as the tanks for ISRU and EPL/GC fits better down there. Still change scanners to bubble off the probes though.

Through middle of the survivability branch should be stations.  Hitchhiker would move to that.   Landing obviously becomes science anyway, maybe have landing in the middle and stations on the bottom, command moves to top (parralel to probes).  The physics science is the extenstion to this close to electrical for the end game science.  Greenhouses / recycling etc should sit in stations.

Engineering has a logistics branch up the middle.  Cargo bays ore/LS tanks etc.  Isru will extend with out.  Orbital structures/construction ties this together is maybe stations branch immediately above it.

When I get a chance I'll plop it together. CTT adds what 95 nodes? My guess is that I'll use around 30 to 35. But it's a WIP.

 

[theJesuit]

Hi everyone,

So, I've been looking at CTT integration, possibly, but from posts above it doesn't really sit well with me.  However I do have this:

This is a WIP, with no release date.  It is because of a request to have KSPIE integrated into Simplex Tech Tree, but obviously I needed a future style focus for it.

I have used CTT nodes, mainly for pretty icons, but also really as placeholders.  CTT's licence allows me to use them, but we'll see.  I had thought to put all of CTT in to simplify bringing mods in, but it didn't work for the logic.

Next step is to integrate KSPIE and see how the high tree nodes will fit (there are fewer than CTT).

So a few things to note...

Branch features:

Stability Branch: Planes/Spaceplanes engines wings, cockpits, fuselages etc are all in the top branch following stability.  Again, a request.  Top line are engines, middle line wings, bottom line are the specific form factor tanks. This line initially is my own created nodes.

basicRocketry branch: Tanks have been placed with the rocket engines.  They head off to join the aerospace form factors later in life.

basicScience branch: flight control moved to here, with probes (and comms). Whilst precise propulsion will head off to ion drives etc,  the probes will move into ISRU, and AI.

engineering101 branch: electricity generation, construction and a new branch of general Engineering, advanced Engineering and specialised Engineering.  This be those landing legs and rover wheels and whatnot so that spaceplanes and probe landers do't have to unlock crewed parts.

If you want all uncrewed then you just head down the middle three branches.

survivability branch: adding in logistics and habitation which will be the life support parts, crew cabins etc.  Currently with CTT nodes through the whole lot, but once I start adding in parts I'll probably change it through the whole lot.

End Game:

Whilst I did think of everything consolidating into one node, I have five end nodes to finish.

unifiedAerospaceSystems, interstellarPropulsion, singularityOversight, unifiedFieldTheory, interstellarColonisation

I guess what I could do as well as have these five head into a single node to mirror start, requiring hitting another star.

Currently, with some node costs would be 15, 45, 90, 300, 550, 1000,  1750, 3750, 7000, requiring 155170 science to complete.

Roadmap:

I'm going to add spaceplanes like the Mk2.5 and flatbottom shuttles to the currently vanilla Simplex Tree and release a 1.8.  Look for that in a week or so.

This new one will be 2.0.  It will include same mod support, with better KSPIE obviously but also Kerbal Planetary Base Systems.  The additional nodes won't be visible without mods to support them.

This may interest people who have may suggestions @Cruesoe, @zulu354, @theonegalen, @flart, @Taki117 and anyone else I've missed.

Any thoughts please?

Peace.

Edited February 8, 2019 by theJesuit
Pinging previous suggestor.

[theonegalen]

Well, I had some stuff typed up, but then I accidentally deleted it all , so I'll just say I like it.

[theJesuit]

@theonegalen but hold your horses as I've refined it a little more. Each time i look at it, i think maybe 6 major branches (the extra starting with construction101 gen construction and logistics going up, eng101 having genEng etc and electrics).  I try it and end up going back to 5 but more streamlined.  I may generate it for both and see what people think.  I'd need a sixth end tier though.

I DO have room for one more tier.  So either it will an end game or an additional thing.   Still working through the KSPIE parts... so many!

Peace.

[Taki117]

@theJesuit Holy carp that looks amazing! You've done a far better job with it than I ever could. I can't wait for the 2.0 release!

[theJesuit]

HI all, 

So, here are the two options for what I think will be close to the finished product.  Here is the 6 branch:  Note the extra tier 1 and tier 10 nodes.  the second from the bottom is Construction101, with the end being an imaginative interstellarColonisation2.

And here is the same number of nodes in the 5 branch:  The construction is up in the Engineering branch, with the new generalEngineering advancedEngineering and specialisedEngineering through the middle.  Logistics is at the top of the survivability branch.

So the 6 branch is more spaced, but the 5 branch I feel is better balanced.  Logistics/ cargo lifesupport and future sciencey things don't really go with construction.  I am definitely leaning towards the 5 branch.

Oh also, precision propulsion is now attached to the rocketry branch again.  I'm keen to hear peoples' thoughts.

Peace.

[Taki117]

I like the 5 branch model I think.

[Cruesoe]

Can't speak to much to the balance but after working through the two trees I think the five branch just flows a bit better. It seems tighter and neater.

As you say the balance lays better in this one I'd stick with the 5 branch.

Looks good, can't wait to get my hands on it.

[zulu354]

Hi @theJesuit

I am a bit out of the theme at the moment, as I didn't played KSP for a while now and just going to start it again. =) Anyway, I am not sure if it was mentioned earlier in this thread:

Somehow I have the feeling, that the reaction wheels are far too early and that the 1.25 m fairing should be earlier in the game. Also I'd like to see some support for the Sounding Rocket mod in the early game.

Midgame wise the mod was just fine, as I remember right. I am not using many part mods or colonisation mods, as I try to stick as close as possible for what is feasible in the near future. Some love for Life Support Mods would be decent, but if I recall correctly, the parts from Kerbalism fitted well into the mod. =)

 

Looking forward on what you bring up ext to us. Good luck with it =)

[theJesuit]

46 minutes ago, zulu354 said:

Somehow I have the feeling, that the reaction wheels are far too early and that the 1.25 m fairing should be earlier in the game.

The smallest reaction wheel is in tier 2 (45 science points) split after stability. You already get smaller reaction wheels built into the Octo (basic science tier 1) I think, but definitly in the mk1 command pod (survivability tier 1). So it is providing a specialist part for something later in the techtree.

The fairing I believe is also tier 2. If your first rockets are flea/ nosecone/cargo bay with octo and some fins from some of the tier 1 then is this not a sounding rocket?

55 minutes ago, zulu354 said:

Also I'd like to see some support for the Sounding Rocket mod in the early game.

You name the mod and I'll support it.

56 minutes ago, zulu354 said:

Midgame wise the mod was just fine, as I remember right.

thanks

57 minutes ago, zulu354 said:

Some love for Life Support Mods would be decent, but if I recall correctly, the parts from Kerbalism fitted well into the mod. =)

IFILS is also supported with its unique tech tree nodes.  Kerbalism is also supported.

59 minutes ago, zulu354 said:

Looking forward on what you bring up ext to us. Good luck with it =)

I'm looking forward to it too. Thanks.  It's slow work and I'm spreading my limited ksp time across several projects to limit burnout.

Peace.