[1.12.5] TechTrees: QUARTIX 3.7, TETRIX 2.23, SIMPLEX 1.33

[theJesuit]

3 hours ago, MysticDaedra said:

What is the intention of locking decouplers behind two upgrade levels? How do you progress with only solid boosters and no decouplers? (seems I can only have a single stage... with solid boosters.....)

Well, there should be a bit of science you can manage though SRB sounding rockets initially, landing in different biomes but it also makes it an interesting challenge.

The extra aerodynamic science experiment available to atart should help as well.

If you are set on decouplers, having a 1.25m heatshield with no abalator is something you can eject asa  staging device.  Or a probe core that explodes when the stage above it ignites.

Are you using a hard mode, or 50% science, kerbalism or any other mods?

[MysticDaedra]

12 hours ago, theJesuit said:

Well, there should be a bit of science you can manage though SRB sounding rockets initially, landing in different biomes but it also makes it an interesting challenge.

The extra aerodynamic science experiment available to atart should help as well.

If you are set on decouplers, having a 1.25m heatshield with no abalator is something you can eject asa  staging device.  Or a probe core that explodes when the stage above it ignites.

Are you using a hard mode, or 50% science, kerbalism or any other mods?

I am using Kerbalism, yes. Also hard mode... but I am probably going to tweak the science returns back up a bit. The default hard difficulty science returns are a bit ridiculous. I hadn't thought to try landing on different biomes, rookie mistake. I'm also using JNSQ, not sure if that matters or not. I'll try your suggestions; I wanted a bit of a challenge, and it looks like I've got one lol!

[theJesuit]

I'm currently working my way through a Kerbalism Simplex game in JNSQ.  But the science is a little different.

[ioioi0977]

what is the warpdrive mod?

[SkyFall2489]

Has Moldavite Machines been integrated into SIMPLEX tech tree yet?

[theJesuit]

No...  maybe tonight?

[SkyFall2489]

32 minutes ago, theJesuit said:

No...  maybe tonight?

Actually, maybe its' better to wait for JadeOfMaar to release the 1.875m parts and do it all at once.

BTW, USI-LS needs no integration with SIMPLEX, it just adds all the life support parts to Survivability with the first crewed pods.

[theJesuit]

13 hours ago, SkyFall2489 said:

Actually, maybe its' better to wait for JadeOfMaar to release the 1.875m parts and do it all at once.

BTW, USI-LS needs no integration with SIMPLEX, it just adds all the life support parts to Survivability with the first crewed pods.

Maybe... i might just check with @JadeOfMaarwhat the part names of the new parts will be.  But balance may need to wait!

In other news I'm adjusting basicScience probes branch.  I'm adding an imaging series where precisionEng, unmannedTech and advUnmanned are and moving those with probes up into the middle of the branch.  The tier that has nuclearElectrics is also going to shift one space up so that nuclearElectrics is directly behind nuclear propulsion.  scanningTch (with the Ore scanners) won't be a bridge to resourceUtilisation anymore.

The new imagingTech nides in Tier2, Tier3 and Tier4 will be populated by HullCamVDS cameras and ScanSat parts.  At the moment they clog uo the batteries and EC generator nodes.

Worked on this today finally.  Maybe a release tomorrow.  Icons are made.

[theJesuit]

15 hours ago, SkyFall2489 said:

Actually, maybe its' better to wait for JadeOfMaar to release the 1.875m parts and do it all at once.

Possibly.  It really comes down to balance -not on the size, but on how it balances with Kerbalism's greenhouse.  If the 1.875 ones support .5 kerbals and the 2.5 version has its capacity increased, then the the 2.5 and 3.75 versions will be moved higher.

[SkyFall2489]

19 minutes ago, theJesuit said:

Possibly.  It really comes down to balance -not on the size, but on how it balances with Kerbalism's greenhouse.  If the 1.875 ones support .5 kerbals and the 2.5 version has its capacity increased, then the the 2.5 and 3.75 versions will be moved higher.

Also, may I ask why the Bobcat is so late in the tree? I'd assume it would come before the Skipper, but that is not the case.

I think that all the greenhouses should go wherever you put the Kerbalism greenhouse, and the other things should go maybe in one of the more advanced ISRU nodes.

[theJesuit]

10 minutes ago, SkyFall2489 said:

Also, may I ask why the Bobcat is so late in the tree? I'd assume it would come before the Skipper, but that is not the case.

I think that all the greenhouses should go wherever you put the Kerbalism greenhouse, and the other things should go maybe in one of the more advanced ISRU nodes.

The Bobcat was a balance issue as well, not a soze thing. I remember being asked about it before, but I'll relook at that too.

The greenhouses are a balance of increasing capability.  You can consider the first appearance as a trial part hence only .5 kerbal support.  The consumables generator alage farm? will be treated as i though i had done with the aquacultre from sspx.  So that will be higher up the tree. 

Yes I had throught to put the bioreactors to produce LF will be in the resource utilization  and manipultaion nodes.  But they are also crewed so should be over in the crewed branch.  I'm thinking on how to handle that, amd what tier to start it, particularly with a potential 1.875m  one coming.

[SkyFall2489]

5 minutes ago, theJesuit said:

The Bobcat was a balance issue as well, not a soze thing. I remember being asked about it before, but I'll relook at that too.

The greenhouses are a balance of increasing capability.  You can consider the first appearance as a trial part hence only .5 kerbal support.  The consumables generator alage farm? will be treated as i though i had done with the aquacultre from sspx.  So that will be higher up the tree. 

Yes I had throught to put the bioreactors to produce LF will be in the resource utilization  and manipultaion nodes.  But they are also crewed so should be over in the crewed branch.  I'm thinking on how to handle that, amd what tier to start it, particularly with a potential 1.875m  one coming.

Also, you may want to start thinking about the parts from this mod: 

The first major release will be soon.

 

[SkyFall2489]

Bug: It looks like the SIMPLEX Resources ore tanks are not supported by SIMPLEX Tech Tree, yet other SIMPLEX Resources parts are.

[SkyFall2489]

On 8/16/2022 at 8:29 PM, SkyFall2489 said:

Actually, maybe its' better to wait for JadeOfMaar to release the 1.875m parts and do it all at once.

BTW, USI-LS needs no integration with SIMPLEX, it just adds all the life support parts to Survivability with the first crewed pods.

@theJesuit Well, JadeOfMaar just released the parts. Can you get to work on incorporating them into the tech tree?

 

[theJesuit]

15 minutes ago, SkyFall2489 said:

@theJesuit Well, JadeOfMaar just released the parts. Can you get to work on incorporating them into the tech tree?

 

Does feel a bit like poking a bear... things take me longer than i think they should, but that is a combination of wanting to actually play the game, a full time job, oh and a family to spend time with.  

It isnt a matter of simply pluging in the names and releasing.  I have to balance in my head where things should go - and balance against other mods too.  So if i decide that a whole class of 1.875m greenhouses is wrong then it is more moving about.

If i give a time for release then it will be wrong.  So maybe this weekend?

Also need to look at simplex ore tanks in various guises and also the buffalo 2 mod.

[infinite_monkey]

I tried the TETRIX TechTree, but I find it hard to play, especially with JNSQ and Kerbalism. I don't understand the logic behind some decisions. E.g., for using RCS, I need to unlock 2 levels for command & control AND 2 levels of fuel tanks. The only reason I make any progress at all is because I use Tundra Exploration, where the Mothra (= Falcon 1) is unlocked quite early, providing a fairing and decouplers. I guess it's only unlocked because it's not supported. But even then, it's impossible to reach higher orbits needed for fulfilling satellite contracts. On the other hand, the Probodobodyne Hex is available quite early.

Will SIMPLEX make life easier for me, and will it break my safegame if I switch during an ongoing early career?

[theJesuit]

1 hour ago, infinite_monkey said:

, for using RCS, I need to unlock 2 levels for command & control AND 2 levels of fuel tanks.

Ah.  I hear you.  I'm doing a JNSQ and  kerbalsim playthrough myself. And the wait for rcs was complicated with the progression of docking contracts.  At 50% science these are quite frustrating and the ore tanks are the same when it comes to resource mining.

I'm working on an update currently. It isn't save breaking but does introduce some extra nodes in tiers 2, 3 and 4 for ScanSat and HullcamVDS of yiu have them.  Im also hoing to move smaller ore  containers a little earlier as well with the tanks.

I hadn't thought of moving the rcs thrusters but i may do that now... but perhaps just the single small one.. the linear thruster?  Monoprop is available in command modules of course!

1 hour ago, infinite_monkey said:

Will SIMPLEX make life easier for me, and will it break my safegame if I switch during an ongoing early career?

Maybe.  The tiers cost the same as stock, so more, but you have fewer branch options so the cost overall is less.  I think you will have similiar issues currently.

Not sure if it will break your saves.

What difficulty setting  are you playing on?

 

 

[infinite_monkey]

1 hour ago, theJesuit said:

What difficulty setting  are you playing on?

Umm, I'm actually not sure. The stock science rewards slider is at 100%, but does that affect Kerbalism or does it have its own difficulty setting? Anyway, with JNSQ removing the KSC biomes, a lot of science is already gone. I am not much of a plane pilot, so I'm not really flying around to gather science in Kerbin's biomes. Maybe that would make it easier.

1 hour ago, theJesuit said:

I hadn't thought of moving the rcs thrusters but i may do that now... but perhaps just the single small one.. the linear thruster?  Monoprop is available in command modules of course!

Well, only the Mk1 pod does at my current progression level, and it's only 10 units. I play in a probes before crew style, and the unmanned pods don't have any monoprop at all. I wanted to use it in order to raise my satellite's orbit, so a linear thruster would be perfect.

[eagleswing12]

Would it be possible to add compatibility to the Benjee10 SOCK mod? The cockpit, bay, and rudders are all in the third aerodynamics node and the wings are in the eighth node, with the OPT J parts.

[theJesuit]

Update coming this weekend with some small corrections for mods, a redistribution of the heat radiators for both TETRIX and SIMPLEX TechTrees... and some additonal mods such as Benjee10 Sock.

This will also come with updates to Kerbalism Simplex and Simplex Resources and Simplex Propulsion.

I'm also going to release a hybrid new TechTree... QUARTIX.  This now tree has four main branches, and 4 tiers before 1st R&D upgrade, 3 tiers before 2nd R&D upgrade, and a final two tiers.

Number of nodes through each of the tiers 1 to 9 are 6, 12, 16, 12 & 16, 12, 16 & 12, 6.  Science costs will be 5, 15, 30, 60 & 120, 240, 480 & 960, 1920.  Testing with Kerbalism Simplex and 50% science points is fairly doable.

QUARTIX is designed to support a stockish game playthrough with no  NearFuture support apart from NearFuture Construction.  It has a focus on initial sound rockets, but you can also have an early focus on prop planes too before using science to go down a rocket path.

There will be some recommended part mods that ARE supported... BreakingGround for the propellor engines, HullCamVDS and/or ScanSat and the SimplexSuite including Kerbalism Simplex.  EL with KDVA will also be recommended but not neccessary.

SIMPLEXResources is getting 2 nuclear reactors.

SIMPLEXPropulsion is getting a new high powered ion enginethat uses lots of EC and xenon.

KerbalismSIMPLEX is adding a coolant resource which will mean ISRU, nuclear power and engines will need the radiator panels.  

[theJesuit]

QUARTIX TechTree released.

TETRIX and SIMPLEX updated.   Changelogs initially on SpaceDock.  CKAN coming soon I'm sure for QUARTIX

[theJesuit]

Update for all Techtrees,

Added support for new Tiny ISRU for Kerbalism Simplex.

[Vl3d]

Just a quick comment: at the start of the Simplex progression I find that I want to build rockets with a small 0-size SRB as the upper stage, but no vertical decoupler is available. What's your opinion about moving the TD/TS-06 to an earlier tech node?

Edited November 29, 2022 by Vl3d

[theJesuit]

4 hours ago, Vl3d said:

Just a quick comment: at the start of the Simplex progression I find that I want to build rockets with a small 0-size SRB as the upper stage, but no vertical decoupler is available. What's your opinion about moving the TD/TS-06 to an earlier tech node?

Which TechTree is that for?   

With Simplex and Tetrix currently it is in tier 3 right?  The design principle for these is that size 0 comes later - except for maybe those earlier SRBs.  So the decoupler would be later.

With Quartix the design was for size progression (and sounding rockets) from the go, and these didn't typically have upper stages.  However, with Grounded installed It does move earlier so that you can launch off the back of trucks...

[Vl3d]

9 minutes ago, theJesuit said:

With Simplex and Tetrix currently it is in tier 3 right?  The design principle for these is that size 0 comes later - except for maybe those earlier SRBs.  So the decoupler would be later.

For Simplex, yes. Currently the first decoupler is radial, so we can only build boosters + one stage. In practice this means that we end up with SSTO type rockets in orbit at the start of the game, instead of small satellites (upper stages are not possible).