theJesuit

[1.6.x, and prior] SIMPLEX TechTree 1.8

Recommended Posts

Your reply was as fast as I remembered :D

As I said, I didn't played for quiet a time and have to fiddle in again.

I prefer Kerbalism over Ifils (wich was my first life support mod though) as I really like the UI and all the part it brings with it. It's not over complicated in terms of ressources. I can remember times, when TAC had almost half a dozen ressources to obay, wich was too much for me.

However, take your time with your project. I know it from other stances as well as reallife how sad things can go, when you overdo something. Speaking for me and the most of the fellas here I guess: we are not in hurry and KSP is rather a marathon than a sprint. =)

 

 

EDIT:

I just recognised, the one I used was pretty old. :D Lets go threw the new tech tree again =) yay, things to do.

Edited by zulu354

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, zulu354 said:

I prefer Kerbalism over Ifils (wich was my first life support mod though) as I really like the UI and all the part it brings with it. It's not over complicated in terms of ressources. I can remember times, when TAC had almost half a dozen ressources to obay, wich was too much for me.

I just recognised, the one I used was pretty old. :D Lets go threw the new tech tree again =) yay, things to do.

You may find more recent Kerbalisms needing lots of resouces - Oxygen, Nitrogen, Ammonia Hydrogen etc. as well as the food/water etc.

I can recommend Simplex Living which is a kerbalism profile that makes things a little more straight forward :) #shamelessplug

Peace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, theJesuit said:

 

I can recommend Simplex Living which is a kerbalism profile that makes things a little more straight forward :) #shamelessplug

I've thought about trying the simplex Living just to check it out, but I'm running kerbalism on my current save. Would it be safe (assuming I don't loose any crafts) to just remove kerbalism and try simplex Living, without it crashing my save? I like the added realism of kerbalism (duh), but I'm not looking forward to my first interplanetary voyage...

Edit: Replaced "resources" with "Living"

Edited by Therese
Typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Therese said:

I've thought about trying the simplex Living just to check it out, but I'm running kerbalism on my current save. Would it be safe (assuming I don't loose any crafts) to just remove kerbalism and try simplex Living, without it crashing my save? I like the added realism of kerbalism (duh), but I'm not looking forward to my first interplanetary voyage...

Edit: Replaced "resources" with "Living"

I'm confused with the replacing and such.  Simplex Living requires kerbalism.

I recommend a new save.  The mechanisms that do the breathing, eating etc and such won't work anymore if you change profiles half way through with current craft, so all kerbals in current craft will die.  However if all crewed craft are deorbited then you could swap in the new profile I'd imagine.  Make sure that your saved craft files have the parts swapped out otherwise the command pods and storage parts on previously saved craft in the VAB won't have the right resources.

Peace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, zulu354 said:

Also I'd like to see some support for the Sounding Rocket mod in the early game. 

Sounding Rockets is already supported natively since it primarily uses the start node and the first rocketry node. It really can't be any later since you get the kerballed capsules very quickly afterwards. I run both this mod and Sounding rockets and think they work perfectly together. Perhaps you could elaborate what you're looking for?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think maybe Zulu is thinking about this one: 

it's not updated for a long time last I checked.

So, yeah.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Therese said:

I think maybe Zulu is thinking about this one: 

it's not updated for a long time last I checked.

So, yeah.

 

@zulu354 is this what you are looking for? I'll add it in if it's a yes.

Peace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Therese said:

I think maybe Zulu is thinking about this one: 

If so that mod still works in 1.6.1. I use it regularly in my Space Program series on youtube, and it's integrated into the Tech Tree already.
 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Taki117 said:

If so that mod still works in 1.6.1. I use it regularly in my Space Program series on youtube, and it's integrated into the Tech Tree already.
 

 

This (simplex) tech tree? How does it work? I just did some testing in sandbox, but I think the engine nerf from Simplex TT is making it underperform. Three stages, and could barely make it to more than a couple km.
I think the Great Scott also used this mod in one of his series, and he made space. Might have to go back and rewatch some episodes to be sure.

Also, the mod required some MKS or USI add on, which added a LOT of tiny parts (again, I was testing in sandbox, these parts might already be in the tree)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Therese said:

This (simplex) tech tree? How does it work? I just did some testing in sandbox, but I think the engine nerf from Simplex TT is making it underperform

The engine nerf basically squeezes the atmospheric part curve.  So engines at sea level would be only .7 the power of vanilla but as it approaches vacuum it gets closer to stock.  It affects all engines srb, ion (why would you use it in lower atmosphere anyway) and jets.

So if sounding rockets are balanced then they'll need some special attention by the mod.

Peace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Therese said:

Three stages, and could barely make it to more than a couple km.

That's pretty normal actually. Sounding rockets aren't supposed to go to space, and certainly not stay there. It takes 3300m/s or so to reach orbit around Kerbin, three stages of a Sounding Rocket is only going to get you to about 30km or so. (I used 2 stages and got to about 10km) To go higher you'll need a bigger rocket, the .035m parts aren't going to do it, and you get the .0625m parts are right where they should be on the tech tree.

1 hour ago, Therese said:

This (simplex) tech tree?

Yup, sort of. Because Simplex uses stock nodes the parts get put in their stock places, but because sounding rockets are geared towards being the first rockets you get they appear very early in the tech tree.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all,

Working slowly on 1.8 currently.

But I'll drop this as a slight teaser.

hgGxGle.png

The Block 2 and Block 3 upgrades are nodes that will cost about 3/5 of the cost of the main parent node (I was going to make it 2/3 but the numbers had the silly divide 1/3 remainders).  o to upgrade the Reliant engine to Block 2 will cost another 27 science, and then 27 science again to Block 3.  To upgrade the Mainsail, will cost 330 each time.  Basically it is to help with decisions to spend what you have to improve launch lifting power of the engine, or save points for the next node and more powerful engine.

The upgrades will only be for engines specified in the config.  Currently (in order of techtree), Swivel; Reliant; Thud; Skipper; Mainsail; finally Vector, Mammoth, Twinboar and Rhino all being Kerbodyne all are in one upgraded node.  Other engines are not specified so aren't affected.

I'll do the Making History and Missing History engines before release to include the Porkjet extras.

The upgrades increase the atmospheric ability by decreasing the nerf.  So the nerf multiples an engine's stock sea level atmospheric pressure power (Key 1 in the config) by 0.7. Block 2 changes it to .8 (and adjusts the atmoshperic curve).  Block 3 adjusts to .9.  So you never quite get back to stock, but hey, it is what it is.  Whatever.  Currently everything for the nerfs are contained in a single config.  So users of the mod can still delete just this file and not have the nerfs, nor the enine upgrades.

Another thought.  Inspired by the SAFIRE mod which adjusts the oxidizer/fuel levels to 3:1 instead of the stock 1.1:0.9 and the tank to compensate, I'm thinking of adding that into Simplex Resources.  It changes nothing for the mass of craft overall, nor delta-vee.  The same mass gives the same delta-vee.  The borrowed idea continues with oxidizer being easier to make (using NaturalOre), and Liquid fuel (that you don't need so much of), is only able to be made later in the tech tree and requires a rarer resource (HydrateOre is nerfed too).  But unlike SAFIRE, I won't adjust the densities of the fuels.

Part of this though process is to spin this off the engine nerfs and the fuel adjustment outlined here into its own mod.  Or perhaps keep the nerf here regardless and have the separate mod that extends it.  I'd be keen on thoughts.  Would most people like me to remove the engine nerf from the TechTree?

Peace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually like the Engine Nerf, makes designing and building rockets more of a challenge. As far as the Oxidizer/LF levels being adjusted, as long as the same mass results in the same dV I don't see an issue with it, my only concern would be mod parts and how those would interact, so I would probably either make an extras folder and make it an option, or move the resources bit to its own mod.

As for the tech tree itself, I'm not sure I like the new direction? I guess I'm not fully understanding what's going on, and if anything the upgrade nodes would make the tech tree more cluttered, even without CTT. I think the upgrades should stay in the next tier nodes, where .8 is in advanced rocketry, and .9 is in heavy rocketry (Or wherever they end up)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Taki117 said:



As for the tech tree itself, I'm not sure I like the new direction? I guess I'm not fully understanding what's going on, and if anything the upgrade nodes would make the tech tree more cluttered, even without CTT. I think the upgrades should stay in the next tier nodes, where .8 is in advanced rocketry, and .9 is in heavy rocketry (Or wherever they end up)

Thanks for the feedback. 

What you see is what you get.  This would be the 1.8 release with small sub twigs? off the branch.  No further clutter than this.  I looked at several options for locating them but this what I settled on as it was compact and obvious.

Perhaps I'll leave the nerf in.  Then have the EngineUpgrades as a separate config so that if you don't like it you can delete it.  I wanted to offer block 2 and block 3 (so two upgrades) inspired by SpaceX up to Block 5.

Another option would be to have the block 3 the next main node and block two  small node halfway but I'm not sure that its possible to not have the block 3 available if block 2 hasn't been researched.  The way itse setup is that you can ignore the upgrades.  Having only the next node means you get them by default. (Maybe with some funds?) But funds are easy to come by.

Peace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, theJesuit said:

What you see is what you get.  This would be the 1.8 release with small sub twigs? off the branch.

I guess the thing I don't like most is the different sized nodes. Half size is fine, but the decreasing size might get hard to see.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think i like the engine upgrade, but then again i like going with realistic approaches. In the spacex-thinking, increasing engine performance over time makes sense. Perhaps increasing isp a little as well, not just engine thrust? 

One thought: By getting the two next nodes you get the first update (i.e. reseaching the mainsail gets you the first upgrade for the reliant, and so on) as a different sort of engineering development. No idea if that's possible though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Therese said:

By getting the two next nodes you get the first update (i.e. reseaching the mainsail gets you the first upgrade for the reliant, and so on) as a different sort of engineering development. No idea if that's possible though

Possibly.  I'll look into it when I get the chance in the next couple of days

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi @zulu354 I've now had a wee play around with Sounding Rockets.  TBH I'm not convinced I'd do much more then what they currently do, or change where they are placed.  Would you like to make a suggestion?

Looking at it, I can see a balance issue issue with those SRB engines being in the same node as the swivel. Im not sure I'd change the swivel of the face of it. Perhaps make all the sounding engine parts in 'start'?

Even the engine nerf I can't see as being an issue.  As has been noted above ny others, Sounding Rockets potenially don't get to space, only maybe to  near vacuum conditions say at around 45 kilometres. 

If the engine nerf DOESN'T work for you, the you can delete the simplexengines.cfg which will affect all new craft designed and then launched.

I'll be grateful if you can tell where you would suggest the parts should be placed.

Peace. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all,

I've done the configs for a sounds a rockets the mk2.5 and flat bottom craft and HabTech2 I think.

I've also done the engine upgrades as well.  

With Restock but more importantly Restock+ being released, I'm going to add this in and push out 1.8.  Expect it by the weekend.

I AM going to have the Engine upgrades as a separate cfg.  The main reason is that I'm personally not going to use them (I like the current max) so this will make it much more optional.

Peace.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am fine but didn't get a chance to upload.

The reason for this is that I've decided to release SIMPLEX Propulsion (name pending probably until I've slept on it).  This will include the engine nerf as well as upgrades and the fuel ratios thing I was going to place in SIMPLEX Resources.

I'll keep the nerf in the tech tree though.  So that people dont update and get a massive powr change.  The Propulsion mod will include the nerf so to be standalone (with the block upgrades being made avaialble on other techtrees, stock and ctt).

So 1.8 when I get my PC in the morning.

Peace.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/6/2019 at 8:20 PM, theJesuit said:

I AM going to have the Engine upgrades as a separate cfg.  The main reason is that I'm personally not going to use them (I like the current max) so this will make it much more optional.

 

Including a functionality that you personally won't be using just in case someone likes it? You sir, are a gentleman.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all!

Updated!  And updated the OP.

@zulu354, you'll  be pleased to know that Sounding Rockets is now supported.

Full added mods: ScienceLabInfo, Sounding Rockets, Mk2.5 Spaceplane Parts, Flat-Bottom Shuttle Systems, HabTech2 and ReStock+

The part upgrades for engines will now part of a separate mod as noted a couple of posts up.  It will add extra nodes to the TechTree.  The Engine Nerf will remain part of the fabric of SIMPLEX TechTree though.  SIMPLEX Propulsion will just extend it.

Enjoy!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 3/9/2019 at 5:13 AM, theJesuit said:

Hi all!

Updated!  And updated the OP.

@zulu354, you'll  be pleased to know that Sounding Rockets is now supported.

Full added mods: ScienceLabInfo, Sounding Rockets, Mk2.5 Spaceplane Parts, Flat-Bottom Shuttle Systems, HabTech2 and ReStock+

The part upgrades for engines will now part of a separate mod as noted a couple of posts up.  It will add extra nodes to the TechTree.  The Engine Nerf will remain part of the fabric of SIMPLEX TechTree though.  SIMPLEX Propulsion will just extend it.

Enjoy!

 

On my way to check it out. Thanks for your effort. =)

 

EDIT:

 

Just recognised some overlapping in the techt tree:

kspvbjaa.jpg

 

Edited by zulu354
avoiding double post
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, zulu354 said:

 

On my way to check it out. Thanks for your effort. =)

 

EDIT:

 

Just recognised some overlapping in the techt tree:

kspvbjaa.jpg

 

It looks like you might have more than one installed.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now