theJesuit

[1.7.x, and prior] SIMPLEX TechTree 1.9

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17 minutes ago, theJesuit said:

Hi all,

Updated to KSP 1.6 - including the stock part name changes, EPL, Keridian Dynamics and Baha EPL Redrilled.

Peace.

Sweet Jesuit!

I haven't even caught my breath from the release and you've updated!

Good work!

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Also - I feel I should mention: it feels poorly balanced to have 15 science as the first node and 45 as the second. Gathering science with low-tech parts becomes a chore. I'll try 10/25 and get back to you.

Edited by Gojira

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10 minutes ago, Gojira said:

Also - I feel I should mention: it feels poorly balanced to have 15 science as the first node and 45 as the second. Gathering science with low-tech parts becomes a chore. I'll try 10/25 and get back to you.

Chore is why I use KEI :)

but seriously happy to take advice.  It was the same with HPTECHTREE and also stock.

Peace.

EDIT: EPL updated.  With a new part.  Also the adapter with fuel now is in the wrong place.  Expect update on next twelve hours 

Edited by theJesuit

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5 hours ago, Gojira said:

Also - I feel I should mention: it feels poorly balanced to have 15 science as the first node and 45 as the second. Gathering science with low-tech parts becomes a chore. I'll try 10/25 and get back to you.

I could disagree more. Science is so easy to get in this game.

As @theJesuitsaid I also use KEI but I'm working on a patch to remove all science from Kerbin ground as I feel like it would of been gathered before the space program even began!

I also love a challenge!

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@Cruesoe sounds awesome!  If the planet holds none, maybe make the launchpad biome hold a certain amount of science to make up for it?

Anyway, Hi all!

Sorry for the quick update

I missed the new fueled adapter, and EPL updated. A couple of minor tweaks as well.  Should be it for a while.

Peace.

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Hi, haven't found a github link, you don't have one? It is convenient even for the clearly .cfg mods.

For example, I just wanted to find out what is

On 12/20/2018 at 11:09 PM, theJesuit said:

the stock part name changes

using github I could just view a last commit and see all changes :) 

I was trying to make quick look to the files, haven't found the name changes, but have found what you added new rescaled parts, I think they should be at the separate file.
Also you could make CommunityPartsTitles recommendation there, if you are caring about names.
And, you now, the larger rescaled truss belong after the original truss, nf-construction is supported by CPT

=====

And about the TechTree, I like the Idea, I am also think what HistoricalProgressionTechTree is pretty cool but too "linear", and I very Like UnmannedFirst possibilily.

Suggesting to make further 2-3 high-level merge (3 node) with one final 10000 science node for Warp-engine etc.
Also you  could find somewhere on the forum some joke-toy-part, or ask someone to make "winner cup" , include to mod, and place it on the last node. 

Spoiler

RACESf3.jpg

=====

On 5/8/2018 at 6:28 AM, theJesuit said:

Further mods to come.

You could check out the list of supported by CPT mods
 

Edited by flart

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Not sure if this is relevant for this mod:

I like this tech tree so far (only played it a little bit), but have also been looking for sounding rockets to make it more "historical". Du any users of this mod know of a part more for this that works with the current game version, or do I have to use 1.3.1or something? 

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Hi @flart

There mod contains the 4 cfg files for the tech tree, all the stock parts, all the mod parts and the the engines reconfigure.  A changelog is provided at the top of each file (I recommend using Notepad++ with a ksp cfg editor :) )

The part name changes were for some of the stock parts.  Squad 'helpfully' renamed SOME of the revamped parts (command pods, probes and that adapter) so that the old depreciated parts could be kept.  The new names have a suffix of _v2.

The rescaled parts are the hex (triangular IMHO) truss from Near Future Construction.  Nice of you to notice! It basically scales them up one size which I think looks better for bigger craft.  Normally I don't play with the largest NF Construction truses but I keep then in play for this mod.  I really like what CPT is doing so I'll look into it thanks.

The pic is gr8 thanks :) andand is kind of what I have in mind for using the CTT nodes as an extension, although maybe combining into 4 then 3 branches (names WIP as I just made them all up) so

The Four would be propulsion, electro propulsion, bio electrical, and mega-structure

Then Three would be interstellar propulsion, interstellar habitation, interstellar construction.

I'm not sure the cup is in the scope of this mod work:cool:

Great idea to look through CPT.

Thanks for the feedback.

Peace.

 

1 hour ago, Therese said:

Not sure if this is relevant for this mod:

I like this tech tree so far (only played it a little bit), but have also been looking for sounding rockets to make it more "historical". Du any users of this mod know of a part more for this that works with the current game version, or do I have to use 1.3.1or something? 

Specific rockets such as sounding rockets that aren't made of stock parts aren't supported... yet.  But if there is a mod that has them I'll place them in for you. Only a request away!

I guess you could make your own using the SRBs, fins and not unlocking any comand pods or probes :) the engine nerf may help not let them be overpowered.

Peace. 

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I think it would make sense for sepratrons to be earlier in the tech tree than they are; a 300 science node for separation motors seems a little excessive. Of course I can add them to the config myself (if I can find the part name used in the code, which hopefully should not be too difficult) but I imagine other people may agree with me about this so it seems a worthy suggestion for a default change to the mod.

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3 hours ago, septemberWaves said:

I think it would make sense for sepratrons to be earlier in the tech tree than they are; a 300 science node for separation motors seems a little excessive.

Thanks @septemberWaves for the suggestion.  I guess, that it hasn't been moved, but the propulsionSystems and precisionPropulsion nodes are up a level, costing 160 and 300 respectively whilst in stock they cost 90 and 160.

So, the question then is, where it should be in terms of the Simplex TechTree logic?... so you'll get to watch my thought logic here (Merry Christmas!)

The sepMotor1 is currently in its stock node of precisionPropulsion (300 tier,  but stock of 160).  Staying, it stays with the the twitch, spider and and puff, tiny radial engines.

Moving it one up the tree to propulsionSystems (160 tier,  but stock of 90) it would join the spark and ant, tiny but non raidal.  Whilst the sepMotor1 is tiny, I'm not sure i'd classify it as precise, not would I use it for 'propulsion' itself.  It isn't a control feature, so bumping it up a node would make it cheaper I think moving branches makes more sense.

So lets look at heavyRocketry (160 tier, also 2.5m size tier) with the poodle, skipper and kickback SRB.  I guess that the longer kickback might be the first booster that would need to be flung sideways faster than a stock decoupler, and the same with those tanks.  So this could be the right place.

However, we could be quite radical, and push it up further to advRocketry (tier 90).  The reason for this, is that side LFO boosters could be used with Making History and the 1.875 tanks.  But in this node there I don't have a stock solid rocket engine.  The Thumper is one before (in generalRocketry), and the Kickback one after.  It is also the tier that I've but all the 'odds and sods' tanks like the radial ones and the more powerful decouplers are in this tier too.

So congrats on reading thus far.  I'm going to keep the rest of the engines as they are - I think they do makes sense where they are still, but I'm happy to move the separatron as per request in the next update, which will also include support to Missing History, but this isn't going to be for a good number of weeks.  I'm going to place it in advRocketry unless you'd be keen for heavyRocketry?

If you want to move it yourself, the name is sepMotor1, and the tiers are bolded.  Open the SIMPLEXStock.cfg in your text editor of choice and move it as you see fit - the nodes names are also bolded for you :)

Peace.

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Now that I think of it, there may be a particularly obvious place to put it. I can't remember which node contains the Soyuz-style radial tanks from Making History, but they have integrated separation motors, so perhaps it makes sense to place the sepratron with those (though if they require 300 science I would advise "advanced rocketry" largely for the reasons you suggested).

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17 minutes ago, septemberWaves said:

Now that I think of it, there may be a particularly obvious place to put it. I can't remember which node contains the Soyuz-style radial tanks from Making History, but they have integrated separation motors, so perhaps it makes sense to place the sepratron with those (though if they require 300 science I would advise "advanced rocketry" largely for the reasons you suggested).

Just checked. The KV-1,2,3, series have integrated decouplers, not solid propellant seperators.  The third one (3 seater) is in the 90 science node.

Excellent.  We'll settle on advanced rocketry then.  The change is made at  my end, but I don't think its worth pushing an update just for that change yet.

Peace.

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I'm playing with your TechTree right now and it is pretty good. But I guess i've found a little bug ;)

The 1.875 Protective Shell is placed under Advanced Construction. But all the others are can be unlocked with the aerodynamic nodes. So I guess this one should go under the Advanced Aerodynamics

 

And is there a specific reason, why we're getting all the 1.875 parts before 2.5m (which makes sense), but all the engines for this tierr are above 2.5m?

Edited by denny99
Added question regarding tree logic

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6 hours ago, denny99 said:

I'm playing with your TechTree right now and it is pretty good. But I guess i've found a little bug ;)

Thanks and thanks!

6 hours ago, denny99 said:

The 1.875 Protective Shell is placed under Advanced Construction. But all the others are can be unlocked with the aerodynamic nodes. So I guess this one should go under the Advanced Aerodynamics

You are very correct.  What version are you using?  This should have been moved to advanced Aerodynamics in 6.2.1.20181223.

This version is also compatable with KSP 1.5.x as well.

6 hours ago, denny99 said:

And is there a specific reason, why we're getting all the 1.875 parts before 2.5m (which makes sense), but all the engines for this tierr are above 2.5m?

The engines were intially balanced due to ability rather than size.  I guess the MH engine nerf might have changed this reasoning.  I don't play with mod (including MH) engines so I probably didn't notice.  I'll take a look but if you want to suggest where they would go that would be great.  I'd like to keep ability intact though rather than size.  It just so happened that the MH stuff fitted nicely elsewhere in that particular tier.

Thanks for the feedback.

Peace.

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Hi all,

There will be an update this evening (by Saturday).  This will include missing history, moving the separatron srb to the main rocketry engine branch and a couple of other small tweaks, hopefully the Mk 2.5space plane parts too if I have time.

Peace.

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20 hours ago, theJesuit said:

Hi all,

There will be an update this evening (by Saturday).  This will include missing history, moving the separatron srb to the main rocketry engine branch and a couple of other small tweaks, hopefully the Mk 2.5space plane parts too if I have time.

Peace.

If it's not too late for this update, I have a suggestion: MK1 inline cockpit is moved to a different tech tree node. This will allow players to make airplanes much earlier. So far, I've made a small research airplane using the MK1 command pod. My thinking is that early in the game, while small suborbital (if even that) rockets are used, the ability to make small planes makes sense from a realistic stand point. If it is moved from "Space exploration" to "Aerodynamics", we'll have all the low level airplane parts in one node.

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Posted (edited)

@ThereseIt's not too late and it was a bit of debate when setting it all up initially to have spaceplanes (aero all) in its own branch engines and wings splitting it the mk2 and mk3 later.

The reason I decided against was it made more sense putting simple rockets first then complicated planes... but the current UBM crowd, PBK?, they like the idea of planes before rockets which is your preference too.

Really all the crewed parts are alltogether that fits the tree better so perhaps if it was moved back to the same node as the mk1 command pod would that work? It is heavier from memory so rocket builders are still likely to go for the Command Pod regardless but mass isn't so much an obstacle for plane builders. Also it doesn't seem to be an issue for science to get that first survivability node either if you get the command pod.

What do you think?

Peace.

Edited by theJesuit

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Putting it in the same node as the small command pod will probably work out. Now it is in the node with the 1.875 pod, which didn't make sense to me.

My logic: The game starts in the 1950s, so manned rocketry should come later, but making small airplanes should be easier early.

 

With all being said, thouroughly enjoying the tree. Playing at 50% science return and more difficult to launch rockets makes this HARD :)

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Hi all, 

I'm about to upload 1.7.  I'm breaking away from the KSP naming as I make major mod additions.  Re-balancing with be minor updates.

Included are the inline Mk1 cockpit moving earlier, the separatron, and MISSING HISTORY!

@denny99 I did look at the Making History engines, but I couldn't really decide on changes sorry.  The engines are where they are for balance against aesthetic, possibly the only tier that does that.  I do acknowledge my own stock engine bias.  The only change I could see was possibly the Cheetch from MH moving back to Heavy Rocketry.  Actually, I'll make that change - this is why I'm typing this before I upload!  If anyone can offer more balance suggestions on engines, please do so.

I'm away for a couple of weeks.  I plan to play the SIMPLEX mods through (maybe with screenshots to make mission reports!)  If I get a chance I'll be adding the block variants to the SIMPLEX engine nerf so that you can pay science to upgrade the engines.  I'll also start looking at integrating the CTT nodes.  This will be a big task as I won't be able to rely on mod CTT configs to do the work (and I suspect that I'm going to use a different logic altogether.

Peace.

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Hi all,

Lots of Sorry. SORRY!

Just found out that the 1.7 included all the simplex mods including Simplex Living and Simplex Resources.

That would make your scanning for ore a little different to what you are expecting.

Also it will nerf your scientists.  I'll make a hotfix tonight NZ time.

In the mean time youll need to add the effect ScienceResetSkill back into your scientists.

If you are starting a new save get get of the SimplexLiving folder.

Peace.

Edited by theJesuit

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9 minutes ago, theJesuit said:

In the mean time youll need to add the effect ScienceResetSkill back into your scientists.

Peace.

How do we do this? Is it something in the settings menus? 

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Further edit... @Therese

Just delete the simplex living folder... or more specifically the SimplexScience.cfg in it and restart ksp that should resolve issues. You don't need to restart you save.

No need to edit save files.

Put it down to Bob telling the Scientists to strike.

Sorry again all.  Hotfix upload tonight.

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Now fixed.  1.7 no longer available.  If you have a save going,  if you are using ISRU you will need Simplex Resources as well.  Otherwise use as you want.  Basically this update gets rid of the Resources and Living folders.  no other changes.

Sorry all!

Peace.

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Just out of curiosity, would it be possible to integrate KSPI Extended into this tech tree? I'm not sure how or why it's not already, but I think integration would be awesome.
 

Also, as a suggestion: Why not make the different mod integration separate config files?

Edited by Taki117

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34 minutes ago, Taki117 said:

Just out of curiosity, would it be possible to integrate KSPI Extended into this tech tree?

Great idea. This may be part of a yet to be worked on 'extended' mod using some of CTT's nodes.  I'll add it to the list.

36 minutes ago, Taki117 said:

Also, as a suggestion: Why not make the different mod integration separate config files?

Personal preference basically.

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