NewtSoup

Got Disillusioned but now I'm playing again, sort of.

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Sorry I've not been around guys.  I know some of you were reading my threads and then I kind of vanished.  Someone was kind of rude about them ( not on the forums and it doesn't matter who ) and so it kind of took away my desire to play.  I've come back again but got quickly fed up with the fund system in career mode.  Yet I didn't want to start over in science ( I still wanted to unlock the tree ) as I'd put in a lot of work setting up the relay sat nets around Kerbin and The Mün.

So I created a science game, made a back up of my main save and set about comparing the two.  After 20 minutes of editing I now have turned my career mode save game into a Science Mode save game! All buildings upgraded, removed the need for funds, left the reputation in there as it does nothing in science mode anyway.  Removed the contracts scenario in the save game.  Funds were never an issue anyway the game practically throws them at you.  But no more fetching kerbals from odd orbits, no more stations that I don't really want to put up with 10,000 units of electric charge and a billion gallons of fuel.  I will of course build refuelling stations but they will be mine.

Anyway.  I'm just going to play the game now.  I most likely won't be documenting Empress Valentina's conquest of the system in the way I was. 

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Welcome back.

I, too, cannot stand career mode.  Enjoying a science save now.

Document away!  You're playing the game for you, not anyone else.  If someone doesn't like the way you play and immerse into a one player game, tell them where they can go and keep doing what you do.

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Welcome back.

Play the game any way that gives you enjoyment.

There are tons of people on these forums that are supportive.  They will always be there for you.

There are, unfortunately, a few bad apples who are not supportive.  Ignore them and have fun.

MM

 

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For the moment I'm going to set up survey scanners around the Mün and Minmus.  Not that I don't know where to park a mining base on Minmus :) - in the middle of the greater flats!

Oh there was a question I was going to ask - I have a relay sat net around the Mün but the last ship I sent there ( for science ) wouldn't access the satnet on internal antenna.  It kept saying connection was direct to Kerbin and was choked off due to distance.  I would have though the internals should have been able to contact  3 satellites orbiting at 360km.  Each relay has a quartet of HG-5's which should combine to be plenty of power right?

Or do I simply need a single external antenna?

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, NewtSoup said:

For the moment I'm going to set up survey scanners around the Mün and Minmus.  Not that I don't know where to park a mining base on Minmus :) - in the middle of the greater flats!

Oh there was a question I was going to ask - I have a relay sat net around the Mün but the last ship I sent there ( for science ) wouldn't access the satnet on internal antenna.  It kept saying connection was direct to Kerbin and was choked off due to distance.  I would have though the internals should have been able to contact  3 satellites orbiting at 360km.  Each relay has a quartet of HG-5's which should combine to be plenty of power right?

Or do I simply need a single external antenna?

You actually need a relay antenna on the source transmitter itself (which I agree is confusing). Sadly the first time I learned that was when my lander probe bricked above Moho after disconnecting from its relay orbiter. :/

Edited by Pthigrivi

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I found out about the relay comms on Duna.

Welcome back to the boards, don't let the haters keep you down.

Readers want to know;  will the senate will be disbanded? will the financial blockade be broken? will Empress Valentina confront her evil twin? and finally, is the professor working for dark forces or did he actually leave the note book out where he knew Valentina would find it?

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Pthigrivi said:

You actually need a relay antenna on the source transmitter itself (which I agree is confusing). Sadly the first time I learned that was when my lander probe bricked above Moho after diconnecting from its relay orbiter. :/

With the current version of the game it's happy bouncing a signal through my relay using a communotron 16 ( well 8 of them actually I kerbal on the satellite ) - though I did test it with a single communotron using a setorbit cheat to see what happens before I made this lovely satellite.  Please enjoy a screenshot of it performing a burn out of Kerbin to the Mün

xWhY2cH.png

That's six baguettes on a HECS probe core then a battery and a reaction wheel then a tower of cubes, a converter plate on the end of the tower of cubes sporting a spark engine 8 communotrons  8 more cubes and a solar panel array on each cube.  Then struts, from the cubes to the battery. ~2400 m/s dV  Bonzer!

Made it to a polar orbit of the mun with about 900m/s spare.  It may be over engineered a bit.

 

Edited by NewtSoup

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I can relate to your problems, though it was pretty rare that someone would complain or insult my play. I have a lot more fun now that I'm just playing to play, than I did back when I was playing for YouTube.

33 minutes ago, Pthigrivi said:

You actually need a relay antenna on the source transmitter itself (which I agree is confusing). Sadly the first time I learned that was when my lander probe bricked above Moho after diconnecting from its relay orbiter. :/

This is untrue. I just hacked a simple pair of satellites into Eeloo orbit, and the one with just the simplest antenna talked to Kerbin just fine through the relay.

Spoiler

Together, they have comms.

1-together.jpg

Apart, the one without the relay still has comms.

2-apart.jpg

In fact, its internal antenna is enough.

3-noantenna.jpg

 

If you like/don't mind mods, I highly recommend AntennaHelper. It tells you, in the VAB, exactly what you can expect from your antennas. And in map mode, it tells you exactly what you have.

 

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

This is untrue. I just hacked a simple pair of satellites into Eeloo orbit, and the one with just the simplest antenna talked to Kerbin just fine through the relay.

 

Oh really? Good to know! Perhaps it bugged just then and I've taken it to heart since. 

Edited by Pthigrivi

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Hey! Welcome back!

games are supposed to be fun, don't let anybody or anything spoil that.   If you start not having fun, make the changes needed.  

 

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Due to the way the comms ranges are calculated between antennas in KSP, you need a really strong antenna to talk to the internal 5K probe/pod antennas from even a relatively short range.  From trying to improve my satellites and probes, I discovered that trying to combine a pair of like antennas isn't nearly as effective as replacing them with a single, better one.  Plus direct antennas can only combine with other direct antennas, and relay antennas can only combine with other relay antennas.  But again, you really get into the law of diminishing returns trying to combine a bunch of smaller antennas instead of just getting a single, stronger one.

I built a low-orbiting comms network around Kerbin, with each satellite having a single HG-5 relay antenna.  This way I didn't need to put antennas on every UAV or autonomous rover flying or driving around on Kerbin.  But due to the above range calculation, the satellites had to be less than 300km orbit IIRC just to reach the internal probe core antennas, even though the HG-5 can talk to the DSN from well beyond the Mun.

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Yeah I use the antenna calculator spreadsheet.  The reason my sat has a load of 16's combined is purely for looks, not for range.  They just talk to the sats around mun and minmus.   The reason the sats around mun and minmus have combined HG5s is that that was as far as I'd unlocked in the tech tree at that time and for looks.  They suffice, maybe I will replace them but they work well enough so I probably won't :)

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Science Vessel on it's way to Minmus.

eO4C6LK.png

The science vessel itself has a ton of dV for hopping about on the surface of Minmus.  It's got every science tool available for planetary work.   It can ditch the radial tanks to reduce weight and stretch the fuel further.  If need be  Mission Scientist Lawig can get into minmus orbit on just the jet pack and take the data with her.  The Command Vessel currently has 444m/s left in orbit of minmus WITH the Science Vessel attached so getting home will be no issue at all.  Could probably even circularise with a bit of aero braking before dropping on to Kerbin.

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I too prefer Science mode over career mode, it's challenging enough to give me extra motivation and a sort of "end goal", but I don't have the hassle with funds and such.

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14 hours ago, NewtSoup said:

For the moment I'm going to set up survey scanners around the Mün and Minmus.  Not that I don't know where to park a mining base on Minmus :) - in the middle of the greater flats!

Why greater flats out of curiosity?

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2 minutes ago, Corona688 said:

Why greater flats out of curiosity?

They always have the greatest ore concentration.  Also they're really really flat.  Easy landing, takeoff and base module alignment.  It's as if they were designed for it.

 

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Just now, NewtSoup said:

They always have the greatest ore concentration.  Also they're really really flat.  Easy landing, takeoff and base module alignment.  It's as if they were designed for it.

Huh, I thought they were barren salt flats.  I'll have to take a second look.

15 hours ago, NewtSoup said:

But no more fetching kerbals from odd orbits, no more stations that I don't really want to put up with 10,000 units of electric charge and a billion gallons of fuel.  I will of course build refuelling stations but they will be mine.

Moot point, but the game doesn't punish you for not taking contracts any more.  You can timewarp without anxiety or ruin.  It took a long time for me to acknowledge this fact, but my new career save is a lot more fun for it.

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I have many times thought about building a major ground base on Minmus, i really like that moon, it's such a cozy little moon.

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46 minutes ago, Corona688 said:

Moot point, but the game doesn't punish you for not taking contracts any more.  You can timewarp without anxiety or ruin.  It took a long time for me to acknowledge this fact, but my new career save is a lot more fun for it.

Yeah this was a key change (1.2 I think?). The invisible Milestone contracts trip up a lot of folks too. Once you realize you can just go to the Mun or anywhere without prompt and have it fund your whole program you're pretty much free to ignore any contract that doesn't dovetail with something you already plan on doing. With a bit of tinkering in the difficulty settings I've found the funds constraint more appealing than stock science. 

1 hour ago, NewtSoup said:

They always have the greatest ore concentration.  Also they're really really flat.  Easy landing, takeoff and base module alignment.  It's as if they were designed for it.

Im pretty sure the ore concentrations are randomized. Funny coincidence its always been the flats for you?

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Just now, Pthigrivi said:

I'm pretty sure the ore concentrations are randomized. Funny coincidence its always been the flats for you?

Wait wait wait.  You mean they have nothing to do with the polar scanner?

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5 minutes ago, Corona688 said:

Wait wait wait.  You mean they have nothing to do with the polar scanner?

I mean the ore concentrations in a given biome are randomized when the save is created, so from save to save the highest concentrations will be on the flats or the highlands or wherever. This is what the Survey scanner will tell you. There are smaller local variations that within each biome that are randomized as well, which is what you want the narrow band scanner and surface scanner to suss out. 

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Just now, Pthigrivi said:

I mean the ore concentrations in a given biome are randomized

Wow.  Jeez.  I knew the mineral patches helped me find biomes, but had no idea it was assigned so directly or was so random.  That explains a lot.  I guess I'd better put up survey scanners this save after all.

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5 minutes ago, Corona688 said:

Wow.  Jeez.  I knew the mineral patches helped me find biomes, but had no idea it was assigned so directly or was so random.  That explains a lot.  I guess I'd better put up survey scanners this save after all.

Yeah I love Roverdude to death but the man loves his opaque mechanics haha

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I’ve always put up scanners just in case but 3 games in a row I’ve had the greater flats on Minmus a superb source of ore 

I guess it must be coincidence. 

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3 minutes ago, Pthigrivi said:

Yeah I love Roverdude to death but the man loves his opaque mechanics haha

I think it's brilliant.  It generated intelligent-looking results which I thought must be handmade -- one crater rich in minerals, the other absolutely barren?  Obviously, the mun was hit by different kinds of asteroids!  And my intuitive hunch that varying minerals would point to varying geological features paid off handsomely.  I didn't need to understand exactly how it worked to benefit from it.

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