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[1.12.x] Inline Ballutes

linuxgurugamer

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linuxgurugamer

linuxgurugamer

Posted
Posted (edited)

user @riocrokite made a very nice mod based on real technology called Inline Ballutes, a cross between a balloon and a parachute.  Original thread is here: https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/121162-130-inline-ballutes-ib-v128-30052017/&

 

cSfMXiL.png

Inline Ballutes

Slow down your rocket in an upper atmosphere. Ballute = parachute + baloon = an alternative to a heatshield.

5Q6w7Zt.png

SfujygW.jpg

Sample usage: Duna aerocapture and aerobraking, Kerbin reentry for reusable stages etc.

Dependencies:

Installation & License:

Available via CKAN as well

Suggested mods:

  • RealChute by stupid_chris - especially when with FAR aerodynamics. Config for RealChute is already included in the mod.
  • RealHeat by NathanKell - brings the shock heat in the upper atmosphere to more realistic levels. Recommended especially for people that use Kerbol rescale mods (i.e. kscale2 / 64k).

Credits:

  • Riocrokite - models, config
  • Enceos - textures, testing, config
  • ABZB - MM patch for RealChute

FAQ:

  • Is it even a real technology?

Yes, you can read about this technology here [pdf] and here [pdf].

  • How to use it?

Get into upper thin atmosphere (i.e. Duna, Kerbin or Laythe). Deploy it. Initially deceleration is marginal (depending on your vessel speed and mass) but it picks up quickly when you lower your altitude. You can repack it like a normal parachute if you plan multiple orbital decelerations :)

  • Can I use it instead of a parachute?

Rather not. Ballute drag is 4+ times lower than parachute. And then it's much heavier due to used material and shape (Zylon instead of Nylon). However since it's inline version you can use it complementary to parachute. Ballute is also great for semi-powered landing when you just need to use engines just above the surface for the final slowdown.

  • How efficient are ballutes / how heavy rocket can be slowed down efficiently?

The higher mass of the rocket the less efficient ballute is (just like a parachute).
Ballute size (mass) - should work best for:

- 1.25m (0.8t) - up to 20t vessel
- 2.5 m (1.5t) - up to 40t vessel
- 3.75m (2.75t) - up to 80t vessel
- 5m     (4.1t) - up to 120t vessel

  • It is better than a heatshield?

Depending on scenario it can be better than a heatshield. Shields usually have small diameter thus requiring ship to be slim and tall. With ballute you slow down in higher atmosphere when there's not much heat, thus you can have more broad vessel design. Also ballute slows you down quite effectively in thin atmosphere (i.e. above surface of Duna) whereas a heatshield doesn't have enough area to do this. There might be scenarios when you need both ballute and heatshield for optimal effect decelerating from high interplanetary speed).

  • How it works with stock aero? Can I use it with FAR?

Stock aerodynamics:

In current version (1.0.5) aerobraking and aerocapture are quite effective, deceleration forces can reach 9g before a ballute breaks so watch out. However for extreme deceleration you'll also need a heatshield, otherwise the tip of your craft will melt :wink:

Duna - interplanetary deceleration possible (+)
Kerbin - interplanetary deceleration possible (+)
Jool - it works great for even substantial deceleration thanks to reworked (much thinner) upper atmosphere in 1.0.5, it's best to aim at 170-180k m periapsis.(++)
Laythe - only medium deceleration allowed due to very compressed atmosphere (starts at 50km) which gets thick very quickly so watch out.(+/-)
Eve - limited deceleration due to thick atmosphere, should work for orbital deceleration, much less for interplanetary speeds(+/-).
You can modify sensitivity of parachutes by modifying skinMaxTemp. You can modify drag (deceleration) values by changing deployed area.
Tested max deceleration before breaking: about 9g.

FAR (+RealChute) 1.0.5 aerodynamics:

For FAR aerodynamics you need to install RealChute mod, otherwise FAR is overwritting parachute module with RealChuteLite module which has constant (and very low parachute-like) values. In other word ballutes with FAR won't work without RealChute.
Current aerodynamics puts at least 10x more heat in upper atmosphere for ballutes than for parts so I couldn't balance it realistically so I just put unrealistic magic numbers (like 1m K max temperature) so it can behave similarly to stock.
Deceleration scenarios: look above, one difference being that ballutes drag under FAR/RealChute is a bit lower than in stock (a little step towards realism;)).
Tested max deceleration before breaking: about 4g.

  • What about kscale2 or 64k mods compatibility?

You probably want to install both RealChute and RealHeat mods by NathanKell since orbital/interplanetary speeds are much higher in those mods.

 

Edited by linuxgurugamer
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JoE Smash

JoE Smash

Posted
Posted

Hey @linuxgurugamer,

I noticed I have a huge swath of this in my KSP log in reference to Real Chutes. Of course I have no idea what it means.

I do know you can't save a preset settings file in Real Chute for Inline Ballutes and I had the Ducky one on this vessel.

I wasn't even using a cubicoctostrut on this vessel this exception was repeated hundreds and hundreds of times.....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c1cquugsxp37h7f/Realchuteexceptions.rar?dl=0

The exceptions are towards the bottom in both files....any idea what is going on?

Spoiler

[EXC 23:32:59.760] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[WRN 23:32:59.774] BoxColliders does not support negative scale or size.
The effective box size has been forced positive and is likely to give unexpected collision geometry.
If you absolutely need to use negative scaling you can use the convex MeshCollider. Scene hierarchy path "MSP3000/model/Squad/Parts/Structural/strutCubicOcto/model(Clone)/cubestrut"
[WRN 23:32:59.774] BoxColliders does not support negative scale or size.
The effective box size has been forced positive and is likely to give unexpected collision geometry.
If you absolutely need to use negative scaling you can use the convex MeshCollider. Scene hierarchy path "MSP3000/model/Squad/Parts/Structural/strutCubicOcto/model(Clone)/cubestrut"
[EXC 23:32:59.777] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:32:59.792] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:32:59.809] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:32:59.826] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:32:59.843] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:32:59.858] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:32:59.875] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:32:59.891] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:32:59.908] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:32:59.925] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:32:59.940] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:32:59.958] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:32:59.975] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:32:59.991] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:33:00.009] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:33:00.024] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:33:00.040] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:33:00.058] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:33:00.075] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:33:00.092] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

 

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linuxgurugamer

linuxgurugamer

Posted
  • Author
Posted
5 hours ago, JoE Smash said:

Hey @linuxgurugamer,

I noticed I have a huge swath of this in my KSP log in reference to Real Chutes. Of course I have no idea what it means.

I do know you can't save a preset settings file in Real Chute for Inline Ballutes and I had the Ducky one on this vessel.

I wasn't even using a cubicoctostrut on this vessel this exception was repeated hundreds and hundreds of times.....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c1cquugsxp37h7f/Realchuteexceptions.rar?dl=0

The exceptions are towards the bottom in both files....any idea what is going on?

  Reveal hidden contents

[EXC 23:32:59.760] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[WRN 23:32:59.774] BoxColliders does not support negative scale or size.
The effective box size has been forced positive and is likely to give unexpected collision geometry.
If you absolutely need to use negative scaling you can use the convex MeshCollider. Scene hierarchy path "MSP3000/model/Squad/Parts/Structural/strutCubicOcto/model(Clone)/cubestrut"
[WRN 23:32:59.774] BoxColliders does not support negative scale or size.
The effective box size has been forced positive and is likely to give unexpected collision geometry.
If you absolutely need to use negative scaling you can use the convex MeshCollider. Scene hierarchy path "MSP3000/model/Squad/Parts/Structural/strutCubicOcto/model(Clone)/cubestrut"
[EXC 23:32:59.777] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:32:59.792] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:32:59.809] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:32:59.826] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:32:59.843] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:32:59.858] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:32:59.875] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:32:59.891] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:32:59.908] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:32:59.925] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:32:59.940] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:32:59.958] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:32:59.975] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:32:59.991] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:33:00.009] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:33:00.024] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:33:00.040] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:33:00.058] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:33:00.075] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update ()
[EXC 23:33:00.092] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

 

Nope.  Those are all Realchute exceptions, I suggest you go to that thead for help

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Tyko

Tyko

Posted
Posted
On 8/17/2018 at 9:45 PM, JoE Smash said:

Oh I figured out that the MSP3000 is, it's that Material Science bin that looks like a Radial Mystery Goo container.....it uses the same model as a cubicoctostrut I guess....

The MSP3000 is reusing models from Ven's StockRevamp (with his permission). It uses the VSR cubic strut, material bay and 1.25m nosecones. All models are included with the MSP3000 mod, so it's not dependant on VSR

NOTE: Not actually sure what this has to do with inline ballutes TBH, but thought I'd answer anyway.

@JoE Smash if you have any more questions about it post on that forum instead :)  

 

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Gordon Dry

Gordon Dry

Posted
Posted

GameData\KermangeddonIndustries\InlineBallutes.version: 

{
  "NAME": "InlineBallutes",
  "URL": "https://raw.githubusercontent.com/linuxgurugamer/InlineBallutes/master/InlineBallutes.version",
  "DOWNLOAD": "https://github.com/riocrokite/InlineBallutes/releases",
  "GITHUB": {
    "USERNAME": "linuxgurugamer",
    "REPOSITORY": "InlineBallutes"
  },
  "VERSION": {
    "MAJOR": 1,
    "MINOR": 2,
    "PATCH": 9,
    "BUILD": 4
  },
  "KSP_VERSION": {
    "MAJOR": 1,
    "MINOR": 0,
    "PATCH": 5
  },
  "KSP_VERSION_MIN": {
    "MAJOR": 1,
    "MINOR": 0,
    "PATCH": 5
  },
  "KSP_VERSION_MAX": {
    "MAJOR": 1,
    "MINOR": 4,
    "PATCH": 99
  }
}

Compare check url vs. download url ...

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linuxgurugamer

linuxgurugamer

Posted
  • Author
Posted
1 hour ago, Gordon Dry said:

GameData\KermangeddonIndustries\InlineBallutes.version: 


{
  "NAME": "InlineBallutes",
  "URL": "https://raw.githubusercontent.com/linuxgurugamer/InlineBallutes/master/InlineBallutes.version",
  "DOWNLOAD": "https://github.com/riocrokite/InlineBallutes/releases",
  "GITHUB": {
    "USERNAME": "linuxgurugamer",
    "REPOSITORY": "InlineBallutes"
  },
  "VERSION": {
    "MAJOR": 1,
    "MINOR": 2,
    "PATCH": 9,
    "BUILD": 4
  },
  "KSP_VERSION": {
    "MAJOR": 1,
    "MINOR": 0,
    "PATCH": 5
  },
  "KSP_VERSION_MIN": {
    "MAJOR": 1,
    "MINOR": 0,
    "PATCH": 5
  },
  "KSP_VERSION_MAX": {
    "MAJOR": 1,
    "MINOR": 4,
    "PATCH": 99
  }
}

Compare check url vs. download url ...

Oops

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linuxgurugamer

linuxgurugamer

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

New release, 1.2.11

  • Added 1.875m size
  • Fixed category being set to none when RealChute is installed
  • Reduced size of 0.625 version attach nodes
  • Changed the tech required node of the 4 largest ballutes

Release 1.2.11.1

  •  Updated drag values of all Ballutes (they were all set to 500)

Release 1.2.11.2

  • Thanks to @zer0Kerbal for these:
    • Fixed bulkhead profile for the 1.875 size
    • Removed extra "scale" in the 1.875 size
  • All extra "scale" lines were removed from the other parts as well
Edited by linuxgurugamer
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Krzeszny

Krzeszny

Posted
Posted

I think the FAQ is missing these questions: Is it realistic or balanced?

Parachutes can't be used in high atmosphere because there aren't enough air molecules for slowing down (and in very high atmosphere, not enough to even open a parachute) but enough to burn the parachute. I know that ballutes are used for slowing stuff down above the speed of sound but I haven't found any cases of them being used in reality at orbital velocity, as of yet. Is there evidence that they could work in those conditions? 

The original author made them withstand 1 000 000 K because parachutes heat up 10 times as much because of game mechanics, but 10 times less is still 100 000 K. I'm not sure if it's the same thing, but stock heat shields can withstand only 3300 K (but they have... an ablator? ablator? ablators? they're ablative?). Ballutes don't have ablator, yet they're supposed to work in extreme heat. How?

When it comes to balance, I think this mod makes slowing down too easy - one solution that works in all situations (or almost all). 

IMHO ballutes are cool (because they don't heat up) but too OP.

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linuxgurugamer

linuxgurugamer

Posted
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Posted
12 minutes ago, nonono said:

With the most recent updates this mod no longer works, the ballutes will not deploy at all.

A very minimal report, totally useless.

Start off with a log file Player.Log, post a link to it (see my signature for more info on getting support)

You say "most recent updates", so I have no idea what updates you are talking about.

I just added them to a 1.10.1 game and tested,they worked perfectly well

 

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