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[1.3.x/1.4.x/1.5.x/1.6.x/1.7.x/1.8.x/1.9.x] B9 Procedural Wings Fork - Go big or go home update (40% larger wings)


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On 12/13/2020 at 6:27 PM, Acvila said:

It doesn't work... something about wingstuff.dll. I will keep only the old PWings, that was the best of them, even without GUI.

L.E. what bothers me is why they changed the CKAN version without showing dependencies, i lost a day to find which mod freeze my game to load... This is just wrong!

That kind of issue is best to bring on CKAN thread. I have to admit that I lost track what exact PW fork is supported by CKAN and what not. Best to call @HebaruSanor someone from CKAN staff to investigate this.

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Hi folks, I'm sorry to hear there are problems with installing this mod with CKAN. Normally I would point out that it's important not to clutter mod threads with comments about CKAN because the CKAN team probably won't see them and mod authors don't necessarily have the ability to fix CKAN problems (so you're effectively shouting into the void). That would have been good advice two weeks ago, and I would still strongly advise it going forward. However, this time I'll make an exception and reply here because there are already so many CKAN-related comments here that it's become the focus of the thread.

In the interest of transparency, here's what happened (all user names will be from GitHub rather than the forum because there are several I can't find here):

On September 14, the CKAN team received a request to index @tetraflon's fork (see https://github.com/KSP-CKAN/NetKAN/pull/8144 and https://spacedock.info/mod/2525). However, we knew there was already another fork indexed, so we spent an inordinate amount of time reviewing this thread and trying to figure out which maintainers were active, which forks people were using, etc. We reached out to the previous maintainers,  @jrodrigv and @Rafterman82, to encourage collaboration with @tetraflon, because one consolidated team effort would be better than several competing forks, both for CKAN users and non-CKAN users. We never heard from @jrodrigv, but @Rafterman82 replied quickly that this sounded good to him.

Then nothing happened for 80 days. No new releases or commits on the previous forks, no merged pull requests, no announcement by the previous maintainers of a shared GitHub organization to facilitate collaboration (as Kopernicus and KSP-RO have, for example). I don't say this to throw @jrodrigv or @Rafterman82 under the bus here—I understand that folks get busy or lose interest, and that's fine—but that is what happened, and the CKAN team had to make our decisions in that context.

During a review of old pending pull requests, I once again examined this thread to try to figure out what was going on with all the forks, and in my best estimation it looked like the @tetraflon fork was the active one. With no progress on our preferred solution of consolidation of efforts, and the most actively maintained fork not yet indexed despite a 3-month-old request by its author, I crossed my fingers and merged the pull request to switch over to it.

Regarding the current problems, it sounds like there is a consensus that the @tetraflon fork has a dependency on FAR. Unfortunately this was not disclosed in any form that the CKAN team could see, so it was not reflected in CKAN either. CKAN does not figure out dependencies automatically, but instead relies on mod authors to indicate them, and all we had was the linked pull request and SpaceDock entries you see above, which made no mention of FAR. I will go add in the FAR dependency now that it has been identified and communicated to us. Obviously some players prefer not to use FAR, but we can't leave a FAR-depending version listed without that dependency; we will remove it if there is a new release that doesn't need it.

To avoid problems like this in the future, I would strongly encourage the creation of a GitHub organization at https://github.com/B9-Procedural-Wings with all active developers added as members (and possibly as administrators, so they can still add new members as old ones go inactive), all working on the same code and the same list of releases. This would end the musical-chairs game on CKAN by establishing the closest thing possible to an authoritative source for this mod. Clearly the current chaos isn't very good for anyone.

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@HebaruSanThanks for the education, I have no idea how CKAN works. 

I tried making a plane with the stock wings and just couldn't get happy.  So I went back to github and did some digging.  Tetraflon's fork is based on a release from CarnationRED, that is where the handle bars were added, which are totally amazing. But same thing with it, loading the game hangs without FAR installed. 

Going back one more step takes us to the Rafterman release, and it does work fine in 1.10.1 without FAR. No handle bars sadly, but I've been using the mod for years without it.  FAR is just more of a headache than I want to deal with. Planes are harder than rockets. 

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The one for previous ksp versions works with 1.10.1, without far. PW 0.93 i think, but it has the issue with the control surfaces where, if they have been shaped in a certain way, root or tip being made bigger or smaller (making it more triangular than rectangle) the lift force generated is offset. Can be seen if you enable the aerodynamic overlay, f12, the yellow force line is to left of the of the red drag line. Only happenes to control surfaces as far as i am aware. Not the wings or all moving wings. Its always causing a roll when you pitch for me. Usually not a big deal, but i like using them as flaps/spoilers, and at low speeds this can cause problems.

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13 hours ago, eberkain said:

 

@HebaruSanThanks for the education, I have no idea how CKAN works. 

I tried making a plane with the stock wings and just couldn't get happy.  So I went back to github and did some digging.  Tetraflon's fork is based on a release from CarnationRED, that is where the handle bars were added, which are totally amazing. But same thing with it, loading the game hangs without FAR installed. 

Going back one more step takes us to the Rafterman release, and it does work fine in 1.10.1 without FAR. No handle bars sadly, but I've been using the mod for years without it.  FAR is just more of a headache than I want to deal with. Planes are harder than rockets. 

Because, CarnationRED's modification referenced FAR's dlls, and MJ have a function to detect, if it cannot find those dlls then MM prevent the game from loading, so... IDK what should I do. Maybe @CarnationRED have the clue.

Edited by Me1_base
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13 hours ago, eberkain said:

 But same thing with it, loading the game hangs without FAR installed.

ahh.. ok... mebbe thats why PW by itself seemed to work for me: I tried both the mod from both the release pacage on SD, *and* then the one extracted from the source zip on Github.
When I installed the one from the source zip, I *removed* everythiing but the Wingstuff and Scale dlls... meaning i removed the included FAR .dlls

I first suspected there was an issue with the new build/package

Edited by Stone Blue
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1 minute ago, Stone Blue said:

ahh.. ok... mebbe thats why PW by itself seemed to work for me: I tried both the mod from both the release pacage on SD, *and* then the one extracted from the source zip on Github.
When I installed the one from the source, I *removed* everythiing but the Wingstuff and Scale dlls... meaning i removed the included FAR .dlls

Situation 1 only B9PW installed >> success

Situation 2 : installed both B9PW and MJ >> fail

Situation 3 : installed FAR, MJ and B9PW >> success

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I'm wondering if the issue is because PW was built using *modified* (vOv) FAR .dlls, that *are* in the source zip, but not the release zip...
so the PW .dll in the release may be needing those *modified* FAR .dlls, and NOT the .dlls in FAR itself? vOv

IMHO, that would be one reason why I *hate* that some devs pacage modified stuff from other mods... and I really dont lie when ANY mod, includes ANY copies of a dependency or recommended mod, when that mod is already available seperately... yeah, it maes it easier to install, but maes the download/.zip size of the mod needlessly bigger, can cause conflicts lie this (especially if modified), plus requires the mod to be seperately and needlessly updated just becuase the external mod updated...

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On 7/8/2020 at 10:38 AM, CarnationRED said:

 

hinge offset:

OAdxFf4.gif

So I've been trying to offset the hinge (rotation axis) but I just don't know how to do that!

I identified a few issues when trying to stick an all-moving surface to another all-moving surface. Here's what I tested:

1) No offset = no problem

And here the corresponding parameters. Please note that the first all-moving surface attached to the rectangular wing has been translated downwind. This doesn't seem to cause any issue regarding rotation:

2) No offset + translation

This time, I didn't offset any of the all-moving parts but translated the second and third control surfaces until their rotation axis barely belonged to the part they were attached to. I got problems:

3) Offset + minimal translation

I translated the second set of control surfaces with respect to the first ones by a small distance, while offsetting them. They seem to behave almost correctly (the previous issue seems to happen, although it remains nearly imperceptible):

Now with the corresponding surface parameters:

4) Offset + offset - no translation

With the corresponding parameters:

 

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On 12/15/2020 at 7:13 PM, Kerburettor said:

So I've been trying to offset the hinge (rotation axis) but I just don't know how to do that!

I identified a few issues when trying to stick an all-moving surface to another all-moving surface. Here's what I tested:

1) No offset = no problem

And here the corresponding parameters. Please note that the first all-moving surface attached to the rectangular wing has been translated downwind. This doesn't seem to cause any issue regarding rotation:

2) No offset + translation

This time, I didn't offset any of the all-moving parts but translated the second and third control surfaces until their rotation axis barely belonged to the part they were attached to. I got problems:

3) Offset + minimal translation

I translated the second set of control surfaces with respect to the first ones by a small distance, while offsetting them. They seem to behave almost correctly (the previous issue seems to happen, although it remains nearly imperceptible):

Now with the corresponding surface parameters:

4) Offset + offset - no translation

With the corresponding parameters:

 

Can nobody reproduce this issue?

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I'm using the latest version of Tetraflon's fork of B9 Pwings with a 1.8.1 RO+RP-1 install and Pwings causes the FAR buttons on the toolbar to not only duplicate, but break altogether. It's unfortunate, too, as I love the handles that Tetraflon's fork includes, and I've grown quite accustomed to them.

EDIT---

I removed Tetraflon's fork and installed CarnationRED's fork and the FAR issue that I mentioned above is gone and I am able to access the FAR windows.

Edited by fallout2077
Tested out CarnationRED's fork
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8 hours ago, fallout2077 said:

I'm using the latest version of Tetraflon's fork of B9 Pwings with a 1.8.1 RO+RP-1 install and Pwings causes the FAR buttons on the toolbar to not only duplicate, but break altogether. It's unfortunate, too, as I love the handles that Tetraflon's fork includes, and I've grown quite accustomed to them.

EDIT---

I removed Tetraflon's fork and installed CarnationRED's fork and the FAR issue that I mentioned above is gone and I am able to access the FAR windows.

Hello where do you install the mod from? Could you plz provide me the link of download for me to test?

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Question for everyone. I had B9 installed and when I added wings I had yellow and green arrows to drag the wings. I did a reinstall of KSP and my mods and now I don't have the arrows only the J screen. Is there something I am missing or what it a mod?

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10 hours ago, KIMCHI said:

Question for everyone. I had B9 installed and when I added wings I had yellow and green arrows to drag the wings. I did a reinstall of KSP and my mods and now I don't have the arrows only the J screen. Is there something I am missing or what it a mod?

I figured it out! Its the Carnation RED B9 Fork. Does anyone know how to get the recolouring GUI like B9 has on the B9 Fork?

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3 hours ago, KIMCHI said:

I figured it out! Its the Carnation RED B9 Fork. Does anyone know how to get the recolouring GUI like B9 has on the B9 Fork?

I could do that if that's what you want

Edited by Me1_base
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I hope with all these different/convoluted forks of B9 PWs, if anyone decides to seriously pick up the mod and wants to give it a bunch of "freshness", that they completey start with totally new versioning...

Like, just go to v1.x.x already...
Actually, it would be even nicer, if each new fork, started with their *own* versioning off the bat?... ie each for start @ v2.x.x, another start @ v3.x.x, etc... vOv

Currently, version numbers across all versions of this mod, past & present, are literally tripping all over each other, out of order and confusing... Yes, they may be *technically* correct with some form of versioning, but IMHO future versioning needs to leapfrog the current mess. vOv

And I am NOT trying to point fingers... the mod has been passed around amongst so many hands, almost like no other, between official & unofficial updates/forks...

EDIT: ugh... looks like Jebman already hit a 1.0.0 release, at one point... ;)
I'd say, Jebman, keep yours going with v1.x.x... everyone else, please leapfrog..
Someone PLEEZE start fresh with v2.x.x .... :P

Edited by Stone Blue
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Hi everyone, hope you are all well! I am still alive :) just not been spending much time building in KSP. I am aware I owe you all a new compile. If there has been any commits you think I've forgotten about let me know. Also if anyone needs permissions to the repo to help support that would be cool as well!

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