klesh

What grade would you give the Making History expansion?

What grade would you give the Making History expansion?  

68 members have voted

This poll is closed to new votes
  1. 1. 2+ months after release, what grade would you give the Making History expansion?

    • A+
      3
    • A
      6
    • A-
      4
    • B+
      5
    • B
      5
    • B-
      5
    • C+
      6
    • C
      4
    • C-
      5
    • D+
      2
    • D
      6
    • D-
      6
    • F
      11

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  • Poll closed on 09/04/2018 at 04:00 AM

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I love the Mission Builider....BUT solely because it allows me to place craft (including launch pads) anywhere--orbit, planet surfaces, floating, bottom of the sea-- without spending heaps of time getting there. If you only have a free hour, being able to place you plane in the mountains or on Laythe and go exploring is wonderful. I use it all the time making pictures for my KerbalX builds.  In short, it is good for KSP photography. It also works as a great craft testbed.

It also came out just as I was getting serious about the game, so it allowed me to explore the solar system, see what's out there. It really got me hooked on the large picture. I'm reaching the end of my flight exploration and now am keen to start building real expeditions. It was that taster that kept me motivated.  Some may see that is the easy way out, but I see it as a great taster.

But as for actual missions... As @DMagic pointed out, why create missions that not everyone can do when you can just post challenges?

As a note, the interface for the builder is not unique to KSP. That node thing is used in Blender, the digital animation program, and I imagine a few other applications as well. 

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Posted (edited)

I give it B-

MH mission builder is rather buggy (which is the main value!) and seems constraining the wide open sandbox nature of the game, not to mention the sparse activity about mission builder in the forum. Good thing is, it's useful in placing craft practically anywhere for a good photo shoot

New parts? The only parts that I appreciate is Soyuz capsule with IVA, nothing more, since everything else is already done in better quality by modding community. Structural parts? Near future construction did it better. Engine plate? SpaceY has a 40+ engine cluster plate. Wheels? Kerbal Foundries has a lot of choices. Engines and command pods? A WHOLE METRIC CRAPTON OF MOD HAS DONE IT!

Still, I'm giving the B- score because AT LEAST, it's a sign that the dev hasn't died yet in developing this game (B- was a bare minimum of passing grade in my university)

Edited by ARS
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It's more than satisfactory, and worth the money if someone wants a "mission mode" feature.

The new parts are incredibly well designed, however the original stock parts need balancing against them.

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On 7/23/2018 at 6:15 AM, Ruedii said:

The new parts are incredibly well designed, however the original stock parts need balancing against them.

So true...some of the early parts are pretty cringe-worthy at this point and adding new high-quality parts just made them look that much worse by comparison. Luckily Ven's Stock Revamp exists, but I'd rather legacy stock parts be updated

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I like it for the parts/launch site... that is about it. I can buy Rome a Total War I Alexander Total war and Barbarian invasion total war for $10. I do not think that this was worth the price of an older game. It's worth it Maby $8 or $10 but $15 for MOAR PARTS. Ehh. For me it's really the launch sites. I wish that Development time on mission builder went into more immersive features such as clouds each engine having a vacuumn variant and being more or less efficient at altitudes. 

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Sounds like I'm glad I didn't buy it....

Probaby should have added at least twice as many Making History missions....and some cool and maybe even slightly OP parts to make you feel like you want them....instead of weak parts no one wants...

I was hoping the mission builder would mean people would be making cool missions or contracts to try, but I guess you can't play them without having the expansion as well, so oh well....

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I give it a well earned F minus

Expansion adds parts, mission editor and consistent game crashes; When loading rockets/space planes onto the pad/runway. I have yet to be able to fly anything in a making history expanded game due to the aforementioned game crashes.

As of this writing the best thing I have seen regarding the expansion is that the uninstall making history expansion program works.

 

I reserve the option to change my opinion IF a stable version is ever released.

 

 

 

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On 8/1/2018 at 11:16 PM, JoE Smash said:

Sounds like I'm glad I didn't buy it....

Probaby should have added at least twice as many Making History missions....and some cool and maybe even slightly OP parts to make you feel like you want them....instead of weak parts no one wants... 

I was hoping the mission builder would mean people would be making cool missions or contracts to try, but I guess you can't play them without having the expansion as well, so oh well....

Well the mission builder still has some kinks to be worked out.    It feels so limited.  It needs more parameters for event triggers, to be honest, as well as more logic controls.

However, it is my hope that such things will come in later patches. 

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B- it is kinda nice but i think some parts are ussles. some parts are overpowered... realy

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On 8/10/2018 at 11:41 AM, JERONIMO said:

B- it is kinda nice but i think some parts are ussles. some parts are overpowered... realy 

I think the various parts just need to be tweaked a little along with the original parts.

A big part of the tweaking needs to be done in adding the upgrades module.   The upgrades module still doesn't have complete functionality, currently relying on a hackish and non-user-friendly GUI.

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Some posts have been removed. Please keep the discussion on-topic, and don't be nasty to each other over little things. 

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On 9/3/2018 at 1:29 PM, Vanamonde said:

Some posts have been removed. Please keep the discussion on-topic, and don't be nasty to each other over little things. 

Just out of curiosity, did you close the poll or did Klesh?

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1 hour ago, Lo Var Lachland said:

Just out of curiosity, did you close the poll or did Klesh?

Polls close automatically after a span set when creating the post. 

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13 minutes ago, Vanamonde said:

Polls close automatically after a span set when creating the post. 

I didn't know that. Thanks. 

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The poll was recently edited to prevent people that dont own the dlc from voting as though it were a funtime joke activity.  You can add a close poll date in the OP editing process.  

I feel like the poll was open long enough, and enough serious participatory answers were given that a reasonable community consensus can be gleaned from the data, though 68 respondants is a paltry, statistically insignificant sample size. 

Edited by klesh

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28 minutes ago, klesh said:

The poll was recently edited to prevent people that dont own the dlc from voting as though it were a funtime joke activity.  You can add a close poll date in the OP editing process.  

I feel like the poll was open long enough, and enough serious participatory answers were given that a reasonable community consensus can be gleaned from the data, though 68 respondants is a paltry, statistically insignificant sample size. 

Its been a long time since my statistics class, but while small, it is statistically significant.  What makes this possibly not relevant are the responders.  This was a purely opt-in survey, so it is quite possible that people who are unhappy would have had more reason to respond

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I think the unpopularity of the DLC speaks for itself. It doesn't really need an active poll.

Just look at the MH sub-forums, there are about 10 threads that have been active in the past month. Compare that with the challenges forum which has dozens of active threads every week.

Or look at the Steam Workshop. There are about 80 missions, only one of which seems to have a rating, and over 11000 crafts. Or KerbalX where there are only a few dozen missions, many of which seem to be different versions of the same mission.

Or look at the Mission of the Week. Each one gets basically no attention.

Maybe MH fans and mission builders are just very solitary people who build missions for themselves, don't share them, and don't post about them. But that doesn't seem to likely, people tend to share the things they make in KSP, at least the people who frequent the forums or Reddit. I guess there could be some thriving off-line community of KSP sharers, but it seems more likely that mission builder just isn't very popular. Which is a shame, as I said in my earlier post, it seems like an incredible waste of time and development effort to make something that no one really asked for and that not many people seem really interested in.

 

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I own it, but I never played more than 2 missions. I just wanted to give money to Squad.

The biggest disappointment was... the mission designer is not available in career mode. What a huge missed opportunity! I thought MH was going to be an extension of the contract/world firsts system, or allow us to script our own missions as we progress, maybe even with an autopilot of sorts with very high skilled pilots. The trailer even strongly insinuates that you use the mission designer to plan your career, science or sandbox mode missions!

I guess I had misunderstood that. As it stands now, it feels like I can either play KSP, or MH. And KSP wins.... Every. Single. Time.

KSP: A+ for game, B for tech

MH: solid D

Also, from a commercial standpoint, all that extra UI must have been extremely expensive to build... especially if it is practically for another, separate game. Given what MH turned out to be, I would have preferred KIS integration into the game. I'd pay $20 for that. (I'm a $15 patron on Patreon, for fluff's sake) And another $20 for extra inventory stuff, like portable experiments. And $20 for new rocket parts, stuff like Near Future. And without batting an eyelid, $40 for multiplayer. And $10 for Loud and Clear (could have been better but it already is a huge improvement to the gameplay for me) as well as $10 for the extra launch sites, and another $20 if they could be built up like KSC.

THOSE are the DLCs that would have made sense, creatively and economically.

(to people doubting these figures, I have bought Total Annihilation 5 times, Supreme Commander 4 times, spent over 200 Euros on Europa Universalis IV and over 100 on Stellaris, and about 400 on EVE Online - yet  I only regret doing the latter, and am proud of having done each of the former)

 


As far as patches go, I am waiting for the day when Squad finally puts post processing behaviors on their cameras, I have found a mod that does that but it is LITERALLY the first thing I do as a unity developer these days. As it stands, the absence of a KSP 2.0 announcement makes me want to build my own KSP clone. Which is a pity. Would much rather like to give more money to Squad and just enjoy playing one of my all time favourite games.

Edited by Thygrrr
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On 9/19/2018 at 8:13 PM, Thygrrr said:

I own it, but I never played more than 2 missions. I just wanted to give money to Squad.

I was also happy to donate for a game I've spent thousands of hours playing over the last five years. And up till now I also had only played two missions and was fairly nonplussed about MH until...

On 7/19/2018 at 5:32 PM, Klapaucius said:

I love the Mission Builider....BUT solely because it allows me to place craft (including launch pads) anywhere--orbit, planet surfaces, floating, bottom of the sea-- without spending heaps of time getting there.

... I started using it to test craft for a challenge and now I feel the same way - I love it. Besides location it lets me set other parameters of the challenge and also test for the accuracy of my final situation. Compared to using say Hyperedit or Alt-F12 to test with, I think MH wins hands down.

The popularity of challenges has been compared to that of MH but challenges have a few problems of their own. Some challenge creators want to restrict the use of quickloading but how can they possibly check? Others want to restrict the use of parts or mods but people go ahead and use them anyway - sometimes unintentionally. A lot of challenges involve taking screenshots or video of times that may have dubious accuracy. MH goes a long way to providing a solution to these problems and more. Possibly, it may be that MH is actually a sleeping giant.

Before I would have given MH less than a C but now I would give it A+. It's funny that while testing for this challenge my interest has shifted from testing with MH to MH itself.

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4 hours ago, mystifeid said:

The popularity of challenges has been compared to that of MH but challenges have a few problems of their own. Some challenge creators want to restrict the use of quickloading but how can they possibly check? Others want to restrict the use of parts or mods but people go ahead and use them anyway - sometimes unintentionally. A lot of challenges involve taking screenshots or video of times that may have dubious accuracy. MH goes a long way to providing a solution to these problems and more. Possibly, it may be that MH is actually a sleeping giant.

As far as challenges go: I just don't get too worried about whether folks cheat or not. We're are not playing for money and you know yourself what you did or did not do. I'm a big believer in the honor system. I follow the rules laid out because that is part of why I am playing the challenge--to see if I can overcome what has been placed in front of me. I get no joy out of winning in an underhanded manner.  If others do, well that's kind of sad, really.

 Having said that, I agree it is a sleeping giant. It makes challenges much easier to set up and much easier to make clear parameters.  For example, I have a race challenge (shameless plug here):

I think part of the problem with this race is the route is not the easiest to follow even with the map the first time. I could either do what @Triop did with the Temple Rally challenge and drive a rover around and plant flags and then put the file up on Google Docs where folks can download it (which is very time consuming and requires folks to be running a similar version of KSP version as me) or I could much more quickly place those flags, markers etc via the Mission Builder.  I have not done that because I can't be sure others will have the add-on.

I personally am not very  interested in the missions as envisaged by the developers (though I am sure others quite enjoy them) but I'd love to see others with the expansion start creating standard challenges with it, and I'd love to feel I could do so myself.

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4 minutes ago, Klapaucius said:

As far as challenges go: I just don't get too worried about whether folks cheat or not. We're are not playing for money and you know yourself what you did or did not do. I'm a big believer in the honor system. I follow the rules laid out because that is part of why I am playing the challenge--to see if I can overcome what has been placed in front of me. I get no joy out of winning in an underhanded manner.  If others do, well that's kind of sad, really.

I was thinking more of myself when I've used MH parts in challenges simply because I didn't know they were MH parts. When I test with MH now I can remove those 63 parts so they don't appear in the VAB. It's easy to cheat without realizing it. You can put a lot of time into these things and it's pretty disheartening at the end of it to have someone point out your mistake.

So as far as missions vs challenges are concerned, missions probably have a lot more potential. It's a pity they're not more popular. When/if I finish this current challenge, I might start working my way through the missions on the mission sub-forum. Some of them look pretty good.

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I'm a fan of the mission builder, but otherwise they just went in the wrong direction for me... 

There were plenty of rocket parts already.  I was really hoping for more aircraft (a stock jumbo jet cockpit would be nice) and some new spaceplane parts & engines.  I do like the addition of the little panel parts, although they screwed up on the mirror imaging of them for aircraft symmetry in the SPH.  Sooooo...  They are, at best, extremely finicky to work with and I have to avoid them.  The new folding rover wheels are nifty, but they don't actually seem to fold enough to make a squat bit of difference, LOL.

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When the cost per hour of entertainment drops under about $1/hr I don't really care what the upfront cost was. I'm satisfied I'm getting my money's worth. If Squad wanted to release annual DLC packs, sign me up.  I only got the game in May and bought the DLC at the same time. I've never used the Mission Builder and don't plan on it. To me the parts are just part of the core game. Having never played without them, I'm not even sure which parts are DLC.

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