Polar runway denotations

[Hotel26]

Here's a conundrum to think about, if you care to.

I've just built an Air Force Base at the North Pole.  2 runways, each 1000m in length and demarked by 4 runway threshold flags.  Each flag is 500m south of the Pole; the runways intersect at 90 degrees and the center-point of each runway is, of course, precisely at the North Pole.

Technically, of course, they are all "North Pole R0", since the approach heading is North.  (Conversely, at the South Pole, they would all be denoted as "South Pole R18".)

This isn't going to be very useful for the ATC controllers, the pilots, nor for the fire truck crews.

I'm making a special case for the Poles and using a different system of denotation there.  So the question is, "how would you denote the runways in this situation?".

There may be only one [obvious] answer to this but I won't take that for granted!  Let's see what people think...

Edited May 27, 2018 by Hotel26

[Alchemist]

If you have problems with azimuths, why not to use meridians instead?

Basically, along which longitude meridian the runway goes. Near poles that's way more reliable

[Vexillar]

As you say, if you stick to the (terran) conventional runway numbering then they will all be the same.

Some options might be:

• Come up with a non-standard IDs - in which case, call 'em what you will  Red, Green, Blue, anything.
• Have a more reasoned alternative approach (  ) : I like @Alchemist 's idea.
• Move them all away from the poles by at least the length of the runway and use the actual azimuth (probably still confusing).
• Or if you really want a (near) earth-standard numbering, how about... Runways 00C, 00L, 00R and 00X?  C being meridian 0 the others 270, 90, 180.

Edited May 28, 2018 by Vexillar
re-aligned meridians

[LordFerret]

Landing on them, what with the polar pinch and all that, must be a real 'female dog'.

 

4 hours ago, Alchemist said:

longitude meridian

This ^

Edited May 27, 2018 by LordFerret
moronic word filter

[pincushionman]

I thought this was “polar runway detonations” when I first read it, and to be totally honest I was a little disappointed. But I’ve got to agree with the others, naming them for the meridian they lie on makes the most sense.

[Vexillar]

9 hours ago, pincushionman said:

I thought this was “polar runway detonations” when I first read it, and to be totally honest I was a little disappointed. But I’ve got to agree with the others, naming them for the meridian they lie on makes the most sense.

Me too 

[Hotel26]

OK.  So meridians is actually the system I had used.

However, I stuck to the old convention that the flag at the take-off end of the runway gives you the meridian you will depart upon.  Alchemist didn't actually specify which but it's sensible to assume he/she meant "the meridian the flag is on".  This is opposite of what I did but actually way less confusing.  So I am going to switch my system.

In the normal case (not at the poles), the arrival heading is the same as the departure heading for a runway designation.  No such luxury in this case and, since I had already opted for an exceptional convention at the Poles, might as well go the whole hog.  [So I'm glad I raised this question actually!]  The upshot is that your arrival flag is on your same (approx) meridian.  Your departure meridian is indicated by the flag at the FAR end of the departure runway.

Edited May 28, 2018 by Hotel26

[SleepingFox]

On 5/27/2018 at 8:18 AM, Hotel26 said:

Here's a conundrum to think about, if you care to.

I've just built an Air Force Base at the North Pole.  2 runways, each 1000m in length and demarked by 4 runway threshold flags.  Each flag is 500m south of the Pole; the runways intersect at 90 degrees and the center-point of each runway is, of course, precisely at the North Pole.

Technically, of course, they are all "North Pole R0", since the approach heading is North.  (Conversely, at the South Pole, they would all be denoted as "South Pole R18".)

This isn't going to be very useful for the ATC controllers, the pilots, nor for the fire truck crews.

I'm making a special case for the Poles and using a different system of denotation there.  So the question is, "how would you denote the runways in this situation?".

There may be only one [obvious] answer to this but I won't take that for granted!  Let's see what people think...

Technically it would be “Runway 36”, as in heading 360. We do not use heading 000 in aviation

And I suppose if you have several runways with the same number, they would count as parallel runways, and has therefore to be denoted as “Runway 36 L”, “Runway 36 C”, “Runway 36 R” and so forth (left, centre, right)....

[Alchemist]

My thought was more about direction of meridians. So Meridian 0 would be the direction from (0, 0) over the pole and further towards (0, 180); Meridian 40 would be from (0, 40) over the pole and towards (0, -140)
Basically, since KSC has longitude about -75, arriving to pole from KSC would be Meridian -75, and launching to KSC would be Meridian 105.
Or feel free to reverse it if you feel that it makes more sense to denote by which longitude on the equator it goes towards, not from. Yeah, it may be better

Also my idea is that it would be usable not only on going directly over the pole, but for anything close enough to make azimuth significantly spin over a few kilometers - which meridian goes parallelly to your runway

[Hotel26]

2 minutes ago, Alchemist said:

was more about direction of meridians.

OK, so to be clear about this: my original scheme was that you taxied to the departure end of a runway and its flag said R0.  That meant it was on the 180E meridian 500m south of the North Pole.  Departing that runway would send you over the pole and down the 0E meridian.

So part of the conundrum is whether you want to look at the flag at the end you will push the throttles forward at, or the flag at the other end that you will fly over that is really on the meridian it says.  I guess it doesn't matter as long as everyone on the field (or approaching it is clear).  I'm going to reverse what I've done, though.  So on departure, the flag at the OTHER end of the runway denotes where you are headed.

Hmm, reading yours above (about airports near, but not at, the pole), maybe your idea was the same as my first?  Yeah, I think it is...  (Correct me if I'm wrong!?)

[Vexillar]

On 5/28/2018 at 12:18 PM, SleepingFox said:

Technically it would be “Runway 36”, as in heading 360. We do not use heading 000 in aviation

You're right... I stand corrected.

[JAFO]

On 5/28/2018 at 9:18 AM, pincushionman said:

I thought this was “polar runway detonations” when I first read it, and to be totally honest I was a little disappointed.

Likewise....

[LordFerret]

I'm just picturing this; Coming in for a landing, and I miss the runway, so I do a go-around and come back in... I'm thinking lining-up would be killer, especially if flying on instruments, as that far up north (or south) the meridians are so close together. You'd likely not use instruments at all and go by visual alone.

[ussoldier2002]

On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 1:18 AM, pincushionman said:

I thought this was “polar runway detonations” when I first read it, and to be totally honest I was a little disappointed. But I’ve got to agree with the others, naming them for the meridian they lie on makes the most sense.

I did too ha ha ha!!!!

Edited June 3, 2018 by ussoldier2002