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[1.12.x] ScienceAlert ReAlerted : Experiment availability, now with DMagic support


linuxgurugamer
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On 7/1/2021 at 10:07 AM, Alpha188 said:

Hello, I finally got back to playing KSP after a while and reinstalled this must have mod. Thanks for still supporting this great mod.

I made a new install on KSP 1.12 and used CKAN to install SCANSAT and ScienceAlert. However, in the advanced options menu the SCANSAT integration option is red and if pressed prompts "you must install SCANSAT". SCANSAT is installed and working (i have all the buttons on the toolbar). Are there some patches not available on CKAN that I should manually install to enable the integration?

I am running SCANSAT v20.4 and ScienceAlert v1.9.9.2.
If I should post logs or anything else please let me know.

 

Thank you again.

I just want to add that I'm having the exact same issue. I started my save and I was like oh what, I forgot to install scansat?" Haha. Sounds like LGG is on it, though, so that's great :)

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On 7/1/2021 at 12:07 PM, Alpha188 said:

Hello, I finally got back to playing KSP after a while and reinstalled this must have mod. Thanks for still supporting this great mod.

I made a new install on KSP 1.12 and used CKAN to install SCANSAT and ScienceAlert. However, in the advanced options menu the SCANSAT integration option is red and if pressed prompts "you must install SCANSAT". SCANSAT is installed and working (i have all the buttons on the toolbar). Are there some patches not available on CKAN that I should manually install to enable the integration?

I am running SCANSAT v20.4 and ScienceAlert v1.9.9.2.
If I should post logs or anything else please let me know.

 

Thank you again.

Please post logs.  I just tested this using ScanSAT 20.4 and ScienceAlert 1.9.9.2, and it worked fine for me.  Installed using CKAN.

Just an FYI, you should ALWAYS post logs, saves time and aggravation

 

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Thank you for the reply.

I loaded up the same savegame (no new mods) to reproduce the issue and recover the logs, but... the issue is no more. It seems to have fixed it by itself, I am note sure why.  @Krydax maybe it is also fixed for you? I think you should check.

If you'd still like the logs I can upload them anyway. Thank you again :)

 

Edited by Alpha188
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6 hours ago, Alpha188 said:

Thank you for the reply.

I loaded up the same savegame (no new mods) to reproduce the issue and recover the logs, but... the issue is no more. It seems to have fixed it by itself, I am note sure why.  @Krydax maybe it is also fixed for you? I thionk you should check.

If you'd still like the logs I can upload them anyway. Thank you again :)

 

I'll have to check tomorrow, won't be able to check today. Thanks for the heads up!

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  • 1 month later...

 

There's a problem with the Collect All button button. It spams green and orange messages on the top left. I remember having the exact same problem with [X] Science. It happens even if I have an experiment storage container on the vessel and the only way to prevent it is... not clicking that button.

Spoiler

 

 

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2 hours ago, Krzeszny said:

 

There's a problem with the Collect All button button. It spams green and orange messages on the top left. I remember having the exact same problem with [X] Science. It happens even if I have an experiment storage container on the vessel and the only way to prevent it is... not clicking that button.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

No logs, no support

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3 hours ago, Krzeszny said:

 

There's a problem with the Collect All button button. It spams green and orange messages on the top left. I remember having the exact same problem with [X] Science. It happens even if I have an experiment storage container on the vessel and the only way to prevent it is... not clicking that button.

  Hide contents

 

 

If you read the messages you are getting, you'll see they are simply saying that some (all?) of the experiments you ran are already stored in the different modules that can store experiments. That's KSP "stock" regular behavior and has nothing to do with ScienceAlert or any other mods. It's the same thing you will get if you manually click on the "Collect Science" button in the window that opens when clicking any of the science collecting modules (and similar to what you get when boarding after EVA in a module while carrying experiments that are already stored in said module).

Hope this helps ;o)

Edited by alartor
just some wording edit
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22 hours ago, alartor said:

If you read the messages you are getting, you'll see they are simply saying that some (all?) of the experiments you ran are already stored in the different modules that can store experiments. That's KSP "stock" regular behavior and has nothing to do with ScienceAlert or any other mods. It's the same thing you will get if you manually click on the "Collect Science" button in the window that opens when clicking any of the science collecting modules (and similar to what you get when boarding after EVA in a module while carrying experiments that are already stored in said module).

Hope this helps ;o)

It's not the same.

23 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

No logs, no support

Here's the log from the examples recorded below:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eI6ZnOgaCFzGAZT6wU2leQlv47yPqS1M/view?usp=sharing

Spoiler
 

 

Edited by Krzeszny
skip to 0:14
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13 hours ago, Krzeszny said:

It's not the same.

What makes you say so?

 

13 hours ago, Krzeszny said:
21 hours ago, alartor said:

If you read the messages you are getting, you'll see they are simply saying that some (all?) of the experiments you ran are already stored in the different modules that can store experiments. That's KSP "stock" regular behavior and has nothing to do with ScienceAlert or any other mods. It's the same thing you will get if you manually click on the "Collect Science" button in the window that opens when clicking any of the science collecting modules (and similar to what you get when boarding after EVA in a module while carrying experiments that are already stored in said module).

Hope this helps ;o)

It's not the same.

Actually, it is.  

Anything in orange is a warning, not an error.  Actually in this case, just information.  I copied a couple of them, they said:

[PPD-12 Cupola Module]" Gravity Scan from space just above Kerbin's Grasslands Removed
[PPD-12 Cupola Module]" Gravity Scan from space just above Kerbin's Shores Removed

which is just saying that the data has been removed from the part. 

Anything in green is pure information, no error.  And everything green there was simply saying that more data has been added to the part, as a result of the experiment

 

13 hours ago, Krzeszny said:

I dont' see any problems in there related to this mod. 

I do see issues with some mod called "TheGoldStandard", seems that one  of the parts has some mistakes, specifically this part:  TheGoldStandard/Parts/GoldSmelter/GoldSmelter

 

On a different note, which version of SAVE do you have installed?

Edited by linuxgurugamer
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1 hour ago, linuxgurugamer said:

What makes you say so?

The video I added at the bottom. You probably missed it. In the video I comment what makes it different.

To be clear, I'm trying to make 4 points in the video:

No new experiment:

  • Spam from ReAlerted's Collect  All took 17 seconds
  • Spam from Experiment Storage Container's Collect All took less than 3 seconds

New experiment:

  • There was no spam from Experiment Storage Container
  • ReAlerted spammed for 19 seconds

IMO it proves that there's something wrong with ReAlerted.

1 hour ago, linuxgurugamer said:

On a different note, which version of SAVE do you have installed?

1.11.0

I always check for updates before launching KSP :)

I updated SAVE to 1.11.0.1 just now and the console is stil getting spammed, by the way.

Edited by Krzeszny
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@linuxgurugamer You might want to look at this anyway. Something fishy is going on there and I'll try to explain:

First of all, there is a simple test you can do which is launching a vessel containing just a single command module and an experiment. You can run the experiment and then use "Collect all" just fine to store it in the command module (well, that shouldn't be possible though since "collect all" is not an option to choose from when you just right click the part itself, but I'll come back to this)

Then, add a "Experiment Storage Unit" to the vessel, run an experiment and click "collect all" again. You will notice not just the orange warning but also, that the science data got duplicated: it's now stored in the command module as well as in the experiment storage unit and this duplication is the actual cause for the warning, since you cannot store the same experiment twice in the same container.

So, my thoughts about that:

I think this happens because the default ModuleScienceContainer comes with the "collect all" event but is slightly different configured for the command pods and dedicated experiment storage unit.
By default, the ModuleScienceContainer has the attribute of "canBeTransferredToInVessel" set to "false" but its changed for the experiment storage unit to true:

MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleScienceContainer
		
		reviewActionName = #autoLOC_502201 //#autoLOC_502201 = Review Stored Data
		storeActionName = #autoLOC_502202 //#autoLOC_502202 = Store Experiments
		evaOnlyStorage = True // i.e. can nearby regular vessels also do this, or EVA only
		storageRange = 1.3
		canBeTransferredToInVessel = True
		canTransferInVessel = True
		showStatus = True
	}

 

The command pods on the other hand, don't change this value and therefore using the default:

MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleScienceContainer
		
		reviewActionName = #autoLOC_502201 //#autoLOC_502201 = Review Stored Data
		storeActionName = #autoLOC_502202 //#autoLOC_502202 = Store Experiments
		evaOnlyStorage = True
		storageRange = 1.3
	}

 

I think the science data gets duplicated because of this... I don't know how the "collect all" event works exactly but since it shouldn't be active for the command pod in the first place, I think KSP doesn't check properly for the "canBeTransferredToInVessel" attribute and adds the science data to the new container but then fails to remove it from the previous one because of this attribute.

Though, the question is why the command pod actually is on the list of science containers, even though the mod actually checks for the "collect all" event being active on the part: https://github.com/linuxgurugamer/ScienceAlert/blob/5c9c88a3590f6bab886c6c455d5cfa589703be88/Source/ScienceAlert.Windows/DraggableExperimentList.cs#L92

I'm not sure if this is a mod issue or KSP issue but

if (m != null && m.Events["CollectAllEvent"].guiActive)

should be "false" for command pods but it's not, so every command pod is added to the list of "ModuleScienceContainer"...
Maybe checking for "canBeTransferredToInVessel" would work better, though it comes with the drawback of being no longer able to use "collect all" in the early game until some kind of dedicated experiment storage unit is unlocked.

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17 hours ago, Krzeszny said:

It's not the same.

It is possible that by trying to keep my explanation concise I did not convey my meaning properly, but in my modest opinion I think it actually is the same; maybe it's just not he answer you were looking for, but it fully explains what your original post and video were pointing out (and same with second video). In any case, I'll try to elaborate and clarify:

In brief: I am guessing that a fix for this would be if ScienceAlert could be configured to use just one specific science container when clicking on the "collect all" button instead of trying to collect all data to all containers (I am just guessing here, I'm not 100% sure that's the way ScienceAlert works. Actually, I no longer use it as I very much prefer [x]Science!, heheh).

In detail:

The "spamming" of messages (which if I'm not mistaken has no actual effect on gameplay, maybe slowing it slightly at the most?) is derived of the fact of all science containers and command pods trying to pull and store all the experiments at once.
The first time, when there are experiments only "inside" the science parts (the Gravioli, for instance), the experiment gets pulled into both the command pod and the science container. The "issue" does not show up.
In a similar way, when you click the "collect" button in the PAW (I think it is called PAW, the window that opens up when clicking on ship modules -- edit: yep, PAW = Part Action Window --), that module is the only one pulling experiments from everywhere else in the ship (i.e. from all science parts and other science containers / command pods / etc). Depending on the number of experiments stored in the ship that may also show a number of messages, but not the "issue" as such.

As a side note, in my career save, I usually have several science containers in my ships, and also set up an action group in which I set *all* those science containers to collect all experiments (yep, I know, it's a little exploit that I use to replicate experiments; with 7 containers or so you can get 100% out of experiments like goo in just one go, heheheheh). When I use that trick, a lot of those "spamming" messages show up and the "issue" takes place, just the same as when clicking on the "collect all" button in the ScienceAlert window.

The reason why this is happening is because for each container, and for each experiment in the ship not in the container in question, it is being collected in that container and, after the first time, a copy of it is already there, which causes the "experiment already stored" and "cannot store experiment" orange messages.

I don't see this as an issue, but as a "behavior", present not only on ScienceAlert but also in stock as explained above in my exploit, though that is just my opinion and I do understand why that might bother other people.

I am guessing that a fix for this would be if ScienceAlert could be configured to use just one specific science container when clicking on the "collect all" button instead of trying to collect all data to all containers (I am just guessing here, I'm not 100% sure that's the way ScienceAlert works. Actually, I no longer use it as I very much prefer [x]Science!, heheh).

Again, I hope this helps clarify the issue.
Happy and kerbal-y sciencing!

PS: please note that, even avoiding the replication of experiments due to collecting to different containers at the same time, you will still get a good number of messages if you "move around" all the experiments after you have collected a few of them (i.e. if you collect all into the command pod, then click on "collect" button in the Science Container PAW button, etc).

Edited by alartor
added note on "PAW = Part Action Window"
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39 minutes ago, alartor said:

Actually, I no longer use it as I very much prefer [x]Science!, heheh).

LOL you still can't get away from me, since I now maintain that as well :D

39 minutes ago, alartor said:

I am guessing that a fix for this would be if ScienceAlert could be configured to use just one specific science container when clicking on the "collect all" button instead of trying to collect all data to all containers (I am just guessing here, I'm not 100% sure that's the way ScienceAlert works. Actually, I no longer use it as I very much prefer [x]Science!, heheh).

It's a can of worms.  I may do something eventually, but no need since it doesn't affect gameplay 

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1 hour ago, Krzeszny said:

The easiest solution that's not a solution is adding this bug which is not a bug to the list of known bugs in the OP :)

My 2 cents, from playing strictly Science mode and using this mod for the last few years.

In Stock, Collect All is implemented as a PAW item and runs on a single part. It's illogical for the command to be run on multiple parts. It should move all science data to a single endpoint, just like it does when you use the PAW - which it does when there's only a single part that is capable of storing science.

So, if you have multiple parts that can contain science, use an Action Group on just one of them and don't use the Collect All button. If you have a single part that can collect science, then the Collect All button works great.

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17 minutes ago, OrbitalManeuvers said:

if you have multiple parts that can contain science, use an Action Group on just one of them

You're a science mode player. I play in career mode and can't afford to upgrade the VAB to get action groups yet.

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6 hours ago, OrbitalManeuvers said:

My 2 cents, from playing strictly Science mode and using this mod for the last few years.

In Stock, Collect All is implemented as a PAW item and runs on a single part. It's illogical for the command to be run on multiple parts. It should move all science data to a single endpoint, just like it does when you use the PAW - which it does when there's only a single part that is capable of storing science.

So, if you have multiple parts that can contain science, use an Action Group on just one of them and don't use the Collect All button. If you have a single part that can collect science, then the Collect All button works great.

As I said, a can of worms.  
 

This mod was written long before there were science containers.  With that in mind:

What should it do when you click the “Collect All” button in the window, which is NOT associated with a part?  Which part should it use?  What happens if that part is full?  What if there are multiple science containers on a craft, which could be separated by a docking port, decoupler or separator?

And before you reply with what would appear to be obvious answers, keep in mind that a “Simple” answer can be quite hard to implement.

Right now,, it works, abiotic with some annoying messages.  So it isn’t a priority for me.

Anyone who would be so inclined is able to make the changes and submit them to me for inclusion.  I’ve accepted lots of submissions over the years, and am grateful for each one.

I welcome a discussion on this, if a good consensus results that would make it easier for me to work with.  Until then, I’m only one person, and only have so many hours during a week to work on mods.

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I don't know if this is helpful, @linuxgurugamer, but the Automated Science Sampler mod uses a drop-down populated with  all the vessel's science containers, so that the user can select which container they want the mod to use. I don't know how it works under the hood, so I don't know how difficult it would be for you to implement in SAR.

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On 9/14/2021 at 10:54 AM, Krzeszny said:

The easiest solution that's not a solution is adding this bug which is not a bug to the list of known bugs in the OP :)

Yeah. I've noticed this problem for a long time now. But it's trivial enough that I've just ignored it. @Linuxgurugamer has plenty on his plate and I just didn't feel it worth bugging him about this one. Even in this particular mod, there are things that bug me more - such as the mod telling me there are eva experiments to do when there are no eva experiment packs onboard to do em with. But that's pretty trivial as well; I just get used to ignoring it.

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10 hours ago, IntoSpaceAgain said:

I don't know if this is helpful, @linuxgurugamer, but the Automated Science Sampler mod uses a drop-down populated with  all the vessel's science containers, so that the user can select which container they want the mod to use. I don't know how it works under the hood, so I don't know how difficult it would be for you to implement in SAR.

Just an FYI, that mod is an ARR, so I can't copy the code

2 hours ago, rmaine said:

such as the mod telling me there are eva experiments to do when there are no eva experiment packs onboard to do em with. But that's pretty trivial as well; I just get used to ignoring it.

Caused by Squad's changing some internals, I hope to figure that out soon

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22 hours ago, IntoSpaceAgain said:

the Automated Science Sampler mod

Cool, I didn't know that mod. If it still works, it seems like a better alternative to ScienceAlert (but [x] Science is still useful with its experiment finder).

Edited by Krzeszny
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