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Terriers to orbit Part Two (Poodle time)


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On 6/27/2018 at 1:13 AM, DAL59 said:

(Hint: try a spaceplane instead of a rocket)

Actually, doing this with a rocket is *trivial*.

But when trying to do so with a spaceplane, I keep on having to add more engines to get enough TWR to maintain flight, which used fuel faster, needing more tanks, causing more drag, needing more engines, and I end up wit, really, a horizontally launching rocket.

This very crude asparagus can send Jeb to Mun, (on an uncontrolled flyby)

tHvOW60.png

Edited by MarvinKitFox
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1 hour ago, DAL59 said:

New challenge: get a kerbal to orbit with only poodle engines.

Yeah, good luck with getting any entries for that. Please re-read the challenge posting rules, take a look around to how other challenges are run, and decide whether you are actually willing to do the work that is expected from a challenge poster.

It's rather disrespectful of all the time and effort entrants spent to just completely ignore them and not acknowledge when they post successful entries. Now you basically invalidate ALL good entries made so far by completely changing the challenge objective, even while there are still people working on new entries. It now just looks like we've all been posting nonsense for the first two weeks of the challenge.

If you're bored with your challenge and want to move on to a different one, mention that you're closing it in the OP and post a new thread. I tell you though, don't expect much interest - no one likes to waste their time when they figure out the OP is not really interested.

 

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9 hours ago, swjr-swis said:

Yeah, good luck with getting any entries for that. Please re-read the challenge posting rules, take a look around to how other challenges are run, and decide whether you are actually willing to do the work that is expected from a challenge poster.

It's rather disrespectful of all the time and effort entrants spent to just completely ignore them and not acknowledge when they post successful entries. Now you basically invalidate ALL good entries made so far by completely changing the challenge objective, even while there are still people working on new entries. It now just looks like we've all been posting nonsense for the first two weeks of the challenge.

If you're bored with your challenge and want to move on to a different one, mention that you're closing it in the OP and post a new thread. I tell you though, don't expect much interest - no one likes to waste their time when they figure out the OP is not really interested.

 

I made the leaderboard now, you're in first place in both categories.  

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6 hours ago, DAL59 said:

I made the leaderboard now

Thank you. It's not about the place on the leaderboard - I don't want people to lose interest in participating in challenges, there's all sorts of things to learn from the entries made.

I hope you will consider updating it when @sevenperforce gets the 9-terrier vertical solution working with a kerbal. Plus someone may still come up with a no-part-shedding SSTO version. There's still life in the original challenge.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/14/2018 at 6:04 AM, swjr-swis said:

Thank you. It's not about the place on the leaderboard - I don't want people to lose interest in participating in challenges, there's all sorts of things to learn from the entries made.

I hope you will consider updating it when @sevenperforce gets the 9-terrier vertical solution working with a kerbal. Plus someone may still come up with a no-part-shedding SSTO version. There's still life in the original challenge.

Okay, I got the Terrier 9 flying Jeb to LKO (from Woomerang) with 340 m/s to spare.

Granted, he gets up there with just the Terrier, an Oscar-B, and his command seat......but he's there.

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3 hours ago, Pds314 said:

Is a SAS an engine?

I see where you're going with this, and yes, you could probably do this using just one Terrier and a stock prop. But I guess it's up to the OP if they'll accept it or not. It would still be a pretty cool craft, at least. :cool:

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19 minutes ago, vyznev said:

I see where you're going with this, and yes, you could probably do this using just one Terrier and a stock prop. But I guess it's up to the OP if they'll accept it or not. It would still be a pretty cool craft, at least. :cool:

I am trying. Unfortunately I have FAR which means 1.4.5 assassinated my atmosphere. I may switch to full stock, but I would rather not do that because it makes controlling my prop pitch MUCH harder. (With FAR I can just use the AOA slider set to something like 70 or -70 and it allows high speeds and efficiencies with near-constant RPM, but with stock props, I need to periodically switch crafts and change gear or spoiler settings as the craft gets up to speed. That and stock aero has a tendency of being literal cancer)

Oh whatever. I'll do it. I can't exactly play right now with FAR anyway, or at least, not with a working atmosphere...

Also stock doesn't let you control the mass/strength of wing parts, which means they're generally completely overbuilt.

Edited by Pds314
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5 minutes ago, Pds314 said:

I am trying. Unfortunately I have FAR which means 1.4.5 assassinated my atmosphere. I may switch to full stock, but I would rather not do that because it makes controlling my prop pitch MUCH harder. (With FAR I can just use the AOA slider set to something like 70 or -70 and it allows high speeds and efficiencies, but with stock props, I need to periodically switch crafts and change gear or spoiler settings as the craft gets up to speed)

You can actually pin the box that lets you adjust the propeller pitch in stock, and it will remain usable after switching back to the main craft. At least usually; I'm not 100% sure what the criteria are. And of course it does get kind of awkward if you have multiple props, or multiple blades on a prop that aren't linked clones, since then you have to adjust each blade separately.

Unfortunately, I don't have a good propeller-driven craft on this laptop to show you a screenshot of, but here's an autogyro. :)

bvBY9A8.png

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19 minutes ago, vyznev said:

You can actually pin the box that lets you adjust the propeller pitch in stock, and it will remain usable after switching back to the main craft. At least usually; I'm not 100% sure what the criteria are. And of course it does get kind of awkward if you have multiple props, or multiple blades on a prop that aren't linked clones, since then you have to adjust each blade separately.

Unfortunately, I don't have a good propeller-driven craft on this laptop to show you a screenshot of, but here's an autogyro. :)

bvBY9A8.png

Oh. Nice! I will definitely do that. I've also never flown an Autogyro in KSP. Curious how they fly. My guess is they don't need much of a runway xD, though that's not saying much seeing as like... a prop fighter has a takeoff speed of 23 m/s here.

Edited by Pds314
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First serious attempt: less-than-ideal takeoff. I think my COL is too far forward.. Carry plane is an electric FAR fighter, modified with an extra fuselage segment, stock-compatible prop settings, and 1-full-sized segment-longer wings (because roll rates don't matter if you're not trying to dogfight in it).
fJrvBwG.png

Edited by Pds314
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No amount of modifications, however, can fix the existential terror of being in a cramped pod inches behind the whirling blades of an experimental aircraft's propeller in a rocket that almost extends beneath the landing gear.
NEbjBTZ.png

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KSP autopilot logic:

SAS: totally unflyable above 3500 meters
MAF: achieves gross aim and pitch but wobbles around and bleeds energy like nothing else.
Stock trim-adjustment with alt: literally the most stable thing ever and can fly AFK with only minor course corrections every so often.

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Tried another run. Ended up reaching an altitude of 5400 meters, attempting to launch the rocket... and realizing two things.

#1. A 10-tonne craft with about 40 kN thrust will never get anywhere in vertical flight. I need more thrust, wings on the rocket, or less fuel. Probably wings is the best option.
#2. I need to do an aggressive climb right before staging so that the rocket points upward. Currently, it will quickly nose down and run into the water at supersonic speeds.
#3. The climb rate massively increases when I stage the rocket. Probably because suddenly the TWR goes from a marginal 0.22 to a fighter-like 0.55.
#4. The plane is controllable enough after staging to re-use it or rescue the a stranded Kerbal if there were space onboard, but it cannot take off again from water because it is not a seaplane. 

G5s0KZ9.png

Edited by Pds314
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On 7/13/2018 at 4:54 PM, DAL59 said:

New challenge: get a kerbal to orbit with only poodle engines.  

Poodle is a MUCH better engine, with almost 30% better TWR at sealevel.

 

Same design as before, just swap out the engines, singles on the core and 9 inners, triple poodles on the 4 outers.(for that low thrust in thick air)

A0bh6SE.png

Is this "orbit" enough for you? Jeb, on MinMus, 745m/s fuel left in the tank.

If I'd bothered putting a chute on the capsule, he could have landed back at home from here.

0lgoqk5.png

 

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Poodles to orbit it is then.

Made it into a 70x79km orbit with a little bit of fuel to spare, so de-orbited and tried for a last moment blast prior to splashdown, to slow the descent to non lethal speed... Jeb died in the attempt.

TjlqTpi.jpg

ocEGn47.jpg

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lePtBEv.jpg

R7YmPcd.jpg

 

 

Edited by purpleivan
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On 7/27/2018 at 11:21 AM, vyznev said:

I see where you're going with this, and yes, you could probably do this using just one Terrier and a stock prop. But I guess it's up to the OP if they'll accept it or not. It would still be a pretty cool craft, at least. :cool:

Well, I wanted to make sure I wasn't talking bull**** there, so I designed this fine and elegant craft:

ccDFOy6.png

It has basically the same upper stage as my earlier spaceplane entry, consisting of a single Terrier engine, an FL-T400 fuel tank and a command seat inside a fairing. The lower stages, however, have been replaced with an "air launch platform" using a giant balloon RTG-powered stock helicopter to lift the upper stage at a stately pace of 10 to 20 m/s all the way up to 10 km above sea level, where the Terrier engine works at almost full efficiency and has enough delta-v to reach orbit.

XN1BWUO.png

After the first unmanned test flight, I also ended up adding an extra reaction wheel (plus batteries) inside the fairing for more stability and control. The upper stage is still aerodynamically unstable and requires careful steering to avoid tumbling over, but I only had to reload my quicksave twice before I (barely) managed a successful orbital insertion. :)

r8x6xTX.png

More screenshots of the flight here. Craft file here.

As I noted above, I'll leave it to @DAL59 to decide if this counts as a valid challenge entry or not. But if it does, then with just one Terrier engine it's pretty much unbeatable in its class (unless we come up with some kind of a tie-breaker, like maybe total mass lifted to orbit). 

Edited by vyznev
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