Time for KSP 2.0

[Dicapitano]

I have been playing KSP for years now, and I always found the great support the developers have given to the game matched only by the amazing community that creates and updates content around it.

 

However, I believe we have reached a limit where the continuous updates (1.4.1 / 1.4.2 / 1.4.3 / 1.4.4 ...) and the efforts of the modders to keep up is simply becoming annoying and defets the purpose of a great game like KSP. One cannot stop playing for a month without finding the last save unplayable, all the mods non compatible, and the latest version being a stop-gap solution until the next “.X” patch is out.

 

It’s time for the developers to work on a “definitive” version of KSP (1.5.X...?) that is stable and optimizes the current game engine. At the same time, you guys should start working on KSP 2.0 (2.X.X...), with more radical improvements and a whole lot more “meat” to the game.

 

New game engine? Life support? Colonization? Interactive IVAs? Actual things to find and study when you get to the planets (ET life, geysers, caves, fossils...)? A home planet that does not feel as empty as all the other worlds?

 

Just keep all the great things the game has (life-like orbital mechanics, casual science approach...) and add on to it. You’ll find tons of people who will come along for the ride and pay $50 for a whole new version. I myself would pay $100...

 

 

in detail:

1. Create a new, expanded, reliable physics engine that puts new solid foundations to the whole game.
2. Add additional features to the basic game that add depth but don't change the core concept:
   • Life support package: this is the biggest limitation I currently see. As much as I like the simplicity of the current game... manned exploration is at least 50% about how to sustain the crew for long duration missions... Something simple like USI-LS would be enough. One could always switch this off in the game options.
   • Interactive spacecraft cabins: the ability to move inside the spacecraft and interact with the cabin (those IVAs are amazing... but such a pity you cannot actually move around and see more).
   • Environmental effects: clouds on planets with atmosphere, geysers on icy moons, comets with icy trails, dust storms on Duna. One might even think about environmental elements affecting spacecraft flights... launch with wind or in a storm, and see your spacecraft rocked around... 
   • A richer Kerbin environment: Kerbin should have that special feeling of "home planet"...  Some very simple cities, roads, procedurally generated simple road traffic, air traffic, sea traffic. Procedurally generated wildlife. More trees, more Easter eggs like the pyramids, maybe shipwrecks to explore... 
   • Planets that are more interesting to visit: planets with clouds, winds, geysers, canyons. Add some simple wildlife, sea creatures on Laythe... a live Kraken somewhere... Magic boulders, arches. Fossil extinct life on Duna... to go and research. 
   • Permanent bases on planets: end-game possibility for building more permanent bases on planets (adds meaning to the end game and adds another level of complexity). I would avoid colonization as this would be way much beyond the scope of the game. Just add bases where one can do research, refuel, base back-up crews indefinitely, run long-term exploration projects.
   • Expanded Air, Ground, Submarine play: the terrain, the airspace, the seas and lakes are all already there... why not make use of them. Add side missions also to these elements. Let Kerbonauts explore the depths of Kerbin and other planets. Add undersea canyons, shipwrecks, easter eggs to the bottom of the seas...
   • Auto pilot features: Something like Mechjeb becomes necessary once you add expanded features. Maybe just make it very difficult to research.
   • KIS/KAS like features as standard: absolute must to make EVAs more meaningful. As it is, not much to do when you space walk in orbit or you walk on planets...
   • Kerbonauts Merits: something like final frontier as standard... it's an absolute must. Tracking the history of your achievements, or disasters... part of the fun.
   • OPM (or some versions of it): additional planets like OPM are also a must. The challenge of sending manned missions to distant planets is adds another level of complexity. Also, comets and a Planet X that can be discovered only late in the game...  
   • Other mods that should be standard in the base game:  Near future Technologies, Planetary Bases Inc, Community Tech Tree, Space Y, Scan Sat. These are all elements that add richness to the game.
3. Work on additional DLCs to be sold separately:
   • Real Solar System with real-life spacecrafts
   • Educational-based version of the game
   • Interstellar quest
   • Colonization

 

I think point 1 and 2 would take the current great game to a whole new level. Basic concept would remain the same, and one could always adjust for complexity with "opt out options" (for example decide not to activate life support...). 

Edited July 4, 2018 by Dicapitano
Expanding on the initial post topic

[Bill Phil]

A number of forum-goers made it clear that they believe the game is far from finished.

I probably agree. 

Even so, 2.0 is a bit of a stretch.

[The Aziz]

56 minutes ago, Dicapitano said:

One cannot stop playing for a month without finding the last save unplayable, all the mods non compatible

That's why you should never have automatic updates turned on. 

 

58 minutes ago, Dicapitano said:

It’s time for the developers to work on a “definitive” version of KSP (1.5.X...?). At the same time, you guys should start working on KSP 2.0

A day is only 24-

 

1 hour ago, Dicapitano said:

<>what the hell happened here how do I delete it on mobile?<>

hour long and resources and Squad crew are not infinite. You know what happens when small studio starts working on multiple titles simultaneously? Nothing. At least nothing good.

1 hour ago, Dicapitano said:

New game engine? Life support? Colonization? Interactive IVAs? Actual things to find and study when you get to the planets (ET life, geysers, caves, fossils...)?

Ksp is already resource-heavy as it is currently and you know what happens when you install tons of mods. Even if it was written from scratch it might be hard for average pc to keep up. I don't want it to become an AAA title in terms of requirements (when 2018 game needs 2019 tech to work on full details). Keep in mind that main target in this game since alpha was "slap a rocket from parts and send it to space". That's why there are another games. Caves, survival? Astroneer. Colonization? Space Engineers. Life on planets? Nobody says about it but No man's sky. Too much content in one game means neither is 100% finished and polished. And we don't want that since we know what happened to career mode. (which, imho, is fine but definitely needs improvement)

There, I used my free time in work.

[mattinoz]

SimCity looked pretty unfinished compared the next versions as well.

For every rusted on player on the forums (like me) there are another 2 who'd give KSP a second chance. Look at Civilisation and other games that basically reworked the same game over and over with better graphics.

It would be good to see other Kerbal games as well but resourcing is going to be the problem.

[maceemiller]

I do agree about the planets being "lifeless". 

Not in the fact of little blue aliens running about but things to do and see when you get there.

Alas I doubt that will ever change though.

[Superfluous J]

40 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

<>what the hell happened here how do I delete it on mobile?<>

You don't. It's one of the more infuriating things on the list of things that are harder to do on the mobile forum.

Regarding the OP, I'd buy a KSP 2.0 in a heartbeat, pretty much no matter what. However I'd greatly appreciate if it had everything the game has now plus my personal list of wants.

Just a quick sampling of those wishes.

• Actual balancing of parts.
• Procedural fuel tank. Not tanks. I want the game to have one fuel tank.
• Things to do on planet surfaces. Random but persistent (perhaps hashed with a seed at game start) outcroppings to science, drill, or build on.
• A totally reworked career mode, figuring out how to balance money, science, rep, time, and any other resource you can think of. A reason to science other than unlocking parts would be a boon.
• schmelta-vee, and configurable readouts on any screen a la KER/Mechjeb.
• flight planning tools, with dV estimates for each step and something like KAC. Ideally plan the mission yourself as a series of virtual maneuver nodes. Heck, that could probably be a mod but I have no idea how that'd happen.

[invision]

id love a 2.0

[klgraham1013]

6 hours ago, The Aziz said:

That's why you should never have automatic updates turned on. 

This is a released game.  An update shouldn't break your save.

[StarStreak2109]

5 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

You don't. It's one of the more infuriating things on the list of things that are harder to do on the mobile forum.

Regarding the OP, I'd buy a KSP 2.0 in a heartbeat, pretty much no matter what. However I'd greatly appreciate if it had everything the game has now plus my personal list of wants.

Just a quick sampling of those wishes.

• Actual balancing of parts.
• Procedural fuel tank. Not tanks. I want the game to have one fuel tank.
• Things to do on planet surfaces. Random but persistent (perhaps hashed with a seed at game start) outcroppings to science, drill, or build on.
• A totally reworked career mode, figuring out how to balance money, science, rep, time, and any other resource you can think of. A reason to science other than unlocking parts would be a boon.
• schmelta-vee, and configurable readouts on any screen a la KER/Mechjeb.
• flight planning tools, with dV estimates for each step and something like KAC. Ideally plan the mission yourself as a series of virtual maneuver nodes. Heck, that could probably be a mod but I have no idea how that'd happen.

Same here. Good summary also, hardly a thing to add.

[flantomas]

6 hours ago, mattinoz said:

SimCity looked pretty unfinished compared the next versions as well.

For every rusted on player on the forums (like me) there are another 2 who'd give KSP a second chance. Look at Civilisation and other games that basically reworked the same game over and over with better graphics.

It would be good to see other Kerbal games as well but resourcing is going to be the problem.

Having played all civilization games (except the spin offs) I can tell you that no, its not just graphics, a lot of mechanics are polished, new ones are introduced, etc. 

[pandaman]

I see two basic options here (Assuming KSP 2 would be essentially the same game as KSP 1 in the same way the Civ games are to each other)...

1. Continue to develop and add incremental versions to current KSP 1.x.x.  Adding addtional features and fixes as happens now.  Effectively, over time, giving us KSP 2 without the name change.

2.  Tie up KSP 1 and Develop KSP 2 from the ground up.  

Which is the 'best' option depends on which is the most practical for the developers and business.  If the KSP 1 code needs so much clearing out then a rewrite may be the better option.  Otherwise why do it?

[Aeroboi]

@Dicapitano How is making KSP 2.0 going to make the developers do updates faster or greater? They will still only be able to maintain the same pace.
Things would be worse actually, all the modders will go hop over to ksp 2.0. Then they won't have time to support the mods of this game because they're occupied with the new game and things will be a total mess, at least, this is what I predict will happen.

Also, KSP out of the box is called vanilla and this is for a reason.
KSP can only deliver Vanilla. When it first started it came with only one ice cream ball, but as the game grew older we could get 2 or 3 ice cream balls. 
It are the mods that add the i.e. cocolate, mango and mocca flavors and is continuously expanded with confetti, cookies and pieces of fruit.
Asking them to create a 2.0 is like asking to start with 3 vanilla ice cream balls instead of just one. The reason is, they apparently can't do more then they've already done otherwise they would have done it.
Making a 2.0 is only going to encumber their workload.

I don't see some kind of drop down in content creation for ksp or that the game is entering state of slumber for a KSP 2.0 to be necessary, or worse that KSP is dead like some non herded mountain sheeps on here like to exclamate.
 

[Epicdreamer]

Continues updates? I'm still on 1.3.1. I use one install per save (you can actually copy ksp in a custom folder) with a different set of mods for each save for diversity. Okay, it does take a bit of harddrive space, but then again I've still got a few 1.2 installs as well. Still working fine (unstable as it was at the time) with the mods I chose at that time. No need for (auto-)updates. I update when I feel it's time for a new save... 

[StarStreak2109]

I think the problem with the current KSP is that it never has been intended for the scope of the current version.

Many functions have IMHO been duct-taped onto the original code, thus accounting for the multitude of bugs...

A fresh start would actually be a good thing

[Majorjim!]

There will be no KSP 2. Ever. I would bet real money on this. 

[klgraham1013]

31 minutes ago, Majorjim! said:

There will be no KSP 2. Ever. I would bet real money on this. 

I'd take that bet.

[MR L A]

7 hours ago, klgraham1013 said:

This is a released game.  An update shouldn't break your save.

As a player of Stellaris I find this comment hilarious!

[Majorjim!]

2 hours ago, klgraham1013 said:

I'd take that bet.

You're on.

[maceemiller]

Why make a  KSP 2 when 1 isnt finished yet? So much that could be added.

I believe this game will never be completed in its entirety. .....such is life

[klgraham1013]

40 minutes ago, maceemiller said:

Why make a  KSP 2 when 1 isnt finished yet?

Like that's ever stopped modern game developers. 

[linuxgurugamer]

50 minutes ago, maceemiller said:

Why make a  KSP 2 when 1 isnt finished yet? So much that could be added.

 Define finished. Some people will say it's never finished others will say it's been finished already. It all depends on your point of view.

[Superfluous J]

5 hours ago, Majorjim! said:

There will be no KSP 2. Ever. I would bet real money on this. 

 

5 hours ago, klgraham1013 said:

I'd take that bet.

 

2 hours ago, Majorjim! said:

You're on.

I'll hold the money until the completion of the bet. Here's hoping for "ever"!

[Gargamel]

17 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

I'd buy a KSP 2.0 in a heartbeat, pretty much no matter what.

I have a copy for sale if you want.   It's not cheap.   It's enough to let me retire now, set aside some for my families' college funds, and cover the inevitable copyright lawsuits that will occur from Squad.  

[Superfluous J]

1 hour ago, Gargamel said:

I have a copy for sale if you want.   It's not cheap.   It's enough to let me retire now, set aside some for my families' college funds, and cover the inevitable copyright lawsuits that will occur from Squad.  

a) "Pretty much"

b) I'll get back to you after Majorjim and klgraham agree on how much they're sending me to hold for their bet.

[Lisias]

20 hours ago, Gargamel said:

I have a copy for sale if you want.   It's not cheap.   It's enough to let me retire now, set aside some for my families' college funds, and cover the inevitable copyright lawsuits that will occur from Squad.  

I want one copy, please. I will pay you as soon as I receive the money promised by a Nigerian Prince for helping him recover his unduly frozen account.  

Edited July 4, 2018 by Lisias
hit "save" too soon; and really bad grammars...