Duna Outpost Mission Architecture Challenge

[dire]

@Death Engineering What's your take on glitched craft? It looks like SLV-7 Boring Rover has a glitch that prevents saving while it's loaded and prevents changing scene to Space Center while it's present. I'm worried my save is starting to get corrupted but I uninstalled Ship Manifest and I'd like to try deleting SLV-7 and relaunching to see if I can fix this. I might be able to roll back a few weeks, but that would represent a couple dozen hours of play time and I don't really want to throw all that away.

[Robonoise]

I designed a new rocket that kind of is a mix of the falcon 9 and Space Launch System for this challenge. I’m going to try my best on this!

[Robonoise]

So far I have been able to land my Kerbals on Duna! My lander looks really weird. But it’s functional and seats 4 Kerbals so I’m good! I built a ship in space called Planeteer to ferry my kerbals back and forth. As soon as I can figure out a way I’ll add pictures! Right now it’s Year 3, day 20

 

 

Edited September 17, 2019 by Robonoise

[dire]

On 9/16/2019 at 4:27 PM, Robonoise said:

So far I have been able to land my Kerbals on Duna! My lander looks really weird. But it’s functional and seats 4 Kerbals so I’m good! I built a ship in space called Planeteer to ferry my kerbals back and forth. As soon as I can figure out a way I’ll add pictures! Right now it’s Year 3, day 20

 

 

Grats! You can take screenshots by hitting the f1 key and they'll be in your kerbal space program directory under the Screenshots folder - for example, Program Files / Steam / SteamApps/ Common / Kerbal Space Program / Screenshots.

 

Once you've found the pictures on your PC you can use an image hosting site like imgbb.com to upload the picture and then share the link. Be aware that imgBB.com in particular sometimes tries to embed ads in your image link, but you can strip those out before you post it.

Edited September 19, 2019 by dire

[Robonoise]

5 hours ago, dire said:

Grats! You can take screenshots by hitting the f1 key and they'll be in your kerbal space program directory under the Screenshots folder - for example, Program Files / Steam / SteamApps/ Common / Kerbal Space Program / Screenshots.

 

Once you've found the pictures on your PC you can use an image hosting site like imgbb.com to upload the picture and then share the link. Be aware that imgBB.com in particular sometimes tries to embed ads in your image link, but you can strip those out before you post it.

Thanks! I’ll do that!

[Laie]

On 5/22/2019 at 8:15 PM, Death Engineering said:

Originally, the idea was to incorporate USI Life Support plus MKS/OKS systems and get right into the advanced resource framework those mods provide. However, that mod has the capability of off-planet fabrication of more than just resources, making it banned from this challenge. Hrmph.

I'm looking at that myself right now, really just starting to look, and wonder if I should stop here and now. Is it really necessary to ban the mod outright, or can you trust us (and yourself) to not go into on-site construction?

[BrightBritches]

Stepped away for a bit, all this orbital assembly is a bit taxing 

Launch #6 - Day 280

The completion and departure of the first DTV brings an end to the first phase of my challenge effort.

Phase 2 will be characterized by an up-size and building out of the mission architecture, starting with the development of new integrated truss systems and linear docking ports. (I installed Near Future Construction to help with orbital construction and part count, hope that's alright)

Our first payload is the core of the v2 Propulsion section, and a small orbital assembly drone for the engine pods.

The final orbits after the launch, as our kerbals begin to creep away from Kerbin.

[BrightBritches]

Combined the next 4 launches as they're identical, and I feel like I'm spamming the thread enough as-is.

Launches 7-10

These are the engine pods that will attach to the core and form the 2nd Gen. propulsion section. Each is a truss structure that contains integrated batteries, monoprop, and liquid fuel storage. Added to this is a nuclear engine, solar panel, radiators, and docking ports. They do not contain a probe core or RCS thrusters, as they are not intended to maneuver on their own, and as such must be placed by the assembly drone.

Propulsion core with the first pod about to be attached.

Fully completed propulsion section.

Locations at the end of Launch 10

[dire]

Still alive! Now with 45 kerbals and a science bay on Duna.

[Laie]

There's one thing I don't get about this challenge, and that's the whole premise of it.

• we're supposed to have backup systems & transport in Duna orbit so the station can be abandoned at the drop of a hat.
• scoring is by having the mostest people on Duna for the longest time.

I've spent some time thinking up Kerbin-Duna shuttles, but at closer inspection it seems as if shuttling would be a bad idea. All transfer vehicles have to remain in Duna orbit for as long as the crew they brought is on the surface, in case the station needs to be abandoned. And as long as everybody's happy (that is, once you have the big four), there's no reason to send anyone back home -- except for the one guy carrying the First Soil Sample, and another for company. But everybody else should stick around until year ten, when they all have to return for the final tally.

Edited November 16, 2019 by Laie

[Death Engineering]

On 9/22/2019 at 2:02 PM, Laie said:

I'm looking at that myself right now, really just starting to look, and wonder if I should stop here and now. Is it really necessary to ban the mod outright, or can you trust us (and yourself) to not go into on-site construction?

I know it seems draconian, but for consistency that mod suite will remain banned.

 

On 11/16/2019 at 8:10 AM, Laie said:

There's one thing I don't get about this challenge, and that's the whole premise of it.

• we're supposed to have backup systems & transport in Duna orbit so the station can be abandoned at the drop of a hat.
• scoring is by having the mostest people on Duna for the longest time.

I've spent some time thinking up Kerbin-Duna shuttles, but at closer inspection it seems as if shuttling would be a bad idea. All transfer vehicles have to remain in Duna orbit for as long as the crew they brought is on the surface, in case the station needs to be abandoned. And as long as everybody's happy (that is, once you have the big four), there's no reason to send anyone back home -- except for the one guy carrying the First Soil Sample, and another for company. But everybody else should stick around until year ten, when they all have to return for the final tally.

Regarding the bolded-part above, that is not exactly accurate. All crew need to be recoverable, but they don't necessarily need to be recoverable on the drop of a hat. Think of it this way, crew must be safe and happy and also able to come home at some point; no crew may be stranded permanently, but for the return home capability the inter-planetary shuttle can make multiple trips.

It's been awhile since I've been on the forums to refresh myself with this challenge, so I hope that helps but if not please let me know.

@dire and @BrightBritches welcome to the challenge! Looking back over your posts now and look forward to seeing where you take your missions.

 

[Death Engineering]

On 9/11/2019 at 2:35 AM, dire said:

What's your take on glitched craft?

That's a tricky one. Once a save-file gets twisted continuing to play through carries risk. I once had a "simulator" mod go south and it seemed all was okay after a glitch but later on the 'simulation' took over and no progress was ever saved. 

[Laie]

13 hours ago, Death Engineering said:

All crew need to be recoverable, but they don't necessarily need to be recoverable on the drop of a hat. Think of it this way, crew must be safe and happy and also able to come home at some point; no crew may be stranded permanently, but for the return home capability the inter-planetary shuttle can make multiple trips.

OK... Meanwhile I've started laying the groundwork for my mission (report here), now let's see how adaptable my framework really is.

 

[Laie]

Mission report about going to Duna, deploying satellites along the way. Oh boy, has it really been half a year already?

This stops after arrival in LDO. I've done that in December, actually, and even started putting people on the ground, but then the base blew up. Putting things together with KIS/KAS is tricky at all times (my shuttles have on several occasions shed parts when I removed modules from the cargo bay, and anchoring a base to the ground appears to be a big no-no).

I've just unloaded the parts ...again... let's see how it works out this time. As of now, the base likes to jump when loading, but at least I've been spared from RUD so far.

[Laie]

Next part here.

Things don't quite work as I'd like, I had to discard much of the roleplaying stuff and resort to an utilitarian "lets just get this done" approach, but roleplaying would have gone old pretty quick anyway, and besides, stuff not blowing up in your face is vastly more important. It's still shaky enough as it is.

[Laie]

Just a quick update.

The shuttles have brought down the last Base parts, a first pod has landed. You can already see where the next is supposed to go.

Reactor & refinery have integrated radiators, but as it turned out, these are not quite sufficient. On the last trip, I salvaged the folding radiators from a nuclear shuttle... but, Emergency!, the base equipment shut down from overheating when the lander came into physics range, and by the time it was landed, electric charge was wholly depleted.

I had to hook up the base to one of the rovers and use it's fuel cell as emergency power supply, before I could bring everything back online. The rover took a leap when hooked up to the base, that's why it's called "jumper" cables, I guess. No harm done, though.

Given the relative size of the shuttles when compared to the base, I'm tempted to dub them Hindenburg and Graf Zeppelin, but a) bad omens and b) how am I suppsoed to call the next shuttle(s)? I expect to have three or four of them in due time.

[Death Engineering]

@BrightBritches Didn't officially welcome you to the challenge so.. Welcome to the Challenge! Having done this challenge and its predecessor a number of times, I can attest that the hardest thing isn't planning, it's making it to the end. The nuclear shuttle and MinMiner look awesome.

@Laie This is looking very impressive!  Particularly like the shuttles  ...but I don't think I'd want to try landing it on Duna.  How is TAC integrating with the base parts mod? 

Nice job with the contingency plan! 

Looks like TAC-LS is the most popular choice for LS mods.. maybe it's time to step back into this mission myself..

[Death Engineering]

Okay.. let's get this thing underway..

32t TO LKO PAYLOAD TEST WITH BOOSTER RECOVERY

With all the progress that others are making on their challenge attempt, I felt motivated to pick this up again. I was close to starting the play-through, but had a design block.

I built a modular base. I designed and tested the lifter. I built the transport and shuttle.  And then I hit a mass-limit wall that pretty much blew the whole plan. The original mission design was using USI life support but by the time I'd planned out the first 10 or so launches, life support needs were pushing payload limits to the point of compromising the mission. 

Trying again pretty much same base, shuttle and lifter with these mods:

• Feline Utility Rovers
• Planetary Base Systems
• Stockalike Station Parts Redux
• Restock
• TAC Life Support
• Kerbal Alarm Clock
• KRASH (Kerbal Simulator)
• Stock Visual Terrain
• Sci-Fi Visual Enhancements

Primary Lifter:

• 32t NPM
• Reusable: Yes
• Days between new lifter: 192

 

[Laie]

On 5/6/2020 at 3:15 PM, Death Engineering said:

How is TAC integrating with the base parts mod? 

In my particular case, it doesn't: I've defined my own converter that reclaims most wastewater, and do not use any of the converters that come with the mod.

I may bring down greenhouses for the looks, but those will probably provide no food at all.

On 5/6/2020 at 3:15 PM, Death Engineering said:

Nice job with the contingency plan! 

Thanks

By the way, the shuttles don't even have wheels, they VTOL by means of servo-mounted engines -- I don't find landing to be all that difficult.

 

 

 

[Death Engineering]

2 hours ago, Laie said:

By the way, the shuttles don't even have wheels, they VTOL by means of servo-mounted engines -- I don't find landing to be all that difficult.

Fun! Aerodynamic flight on Duna is not an inviting proposal so that makes total sense.

Curious about your custom converter.. what are its inputs/outputs?

Does that shuttle go interplanetary?

[Laie]

On 5/7/2020 at 8:47 PM, Death Engineering said:

Curious about your custom converter.. what are its inputs/outputs?

Does that shuttle go interplanetary?

The shuttle is supposed to do the prescribed Duna-Ike trip but that's that farthest it's meant to go. It still needs a crew module to go into the cargo bay, and probably some extra fuel tanks as well. It has no life support converters that would allow for an extended stay, and won't get any.

It can certainly carry enough food and water for a Kerbin return without converter, but that's no contingency plan I ever considered.

Regarding the converter, it's actually two rolled into one:

a) condensate from the air condition is filtered and reclaimed as potable water.
b) other wastewater, that can't be easily filtered, is electrolyzed for oxygen.

That's Salyut--level technology, and MIR too. The soviets reclaimed some 75-80% of their water (depending on source) and created excess oxygen from electrolysis. TACLS doesn't distinguish between different kinds of wastewater, though, and having two separate converters, you could end up reclaiming all water while running out of oxygen. That's why I combined the two systems into one converter.

If you want to copy the system, here's the code:

Spoiler

// all numbers are for one person.
// conversionRate=20 is a global multiplier, so this one is good for up to 20 people

    MODULE
    {
        name = TacGenericConverter
        converterName = #autoLOC_TACLS_00240 //Water Purifier
        StartActionName = #autoLOC_TACLS_00241 //Start WaterPurifier
        StopActionName = #autoLOC_TACLS_00242 //Stop WaterPurifier
        tag = Life Support        
        GeneratesHeat = false
        conversionRate = 20
        INPUT_RESOURCE
        {
            ResourceName = ElectricCharge
            Ratio = 0.25
        }
        INPUT_RESOURCE
        {
            ResourceName = WasteWater
            Ratio = 0.000014247685185
        }        
        OUTPUT_RESOURCE
        {
            ResourceName = Water
            Ratio = 8.548611111e-06 //76.4%
            DumpExcess = false
        }    
        OUTPUT_RESOURCE
        {
            ResourceName = Oxygen
            Ratio = 0.00239  //excess oxygen, 140%
            DumpExcess = true
        }    
        OUTPUT_RESOURCE
        {
            ResourceName = Waste
            Ratio = 1.899691358e-06
            DumpExcess = true
        }    

        UseSpecialistBonus = true
        SpecialistEfficiencyFactor = 0.5
        SpecialistBonusBase = 1
        ExperienceEffect = ConverterSkill
        EfficiencyBonus = 1
    }

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by Laie

[Death Engineering]

On 4/21/2020 at 3:20 PM, Laie said:

stuff not blowing up in your face is vastly more important.

This, a mile wide.

I'll have to check out that script, thank you for sharing.

Edited May 9, 2020 by Death Engineering

[Laie]

@Death Engineering: that's not a script, just a snippet of config. You know how to make simple MM patches? If not, drop me a line.

Just by the way, TACLS assumes "astronaut food": freeze-dried, single-serve, shrink-wrapped. That's how one Kerbal can subsist on a bit under 44kg of food/year, and why they need so much water to go with it. In that context, a greenhouse turning "waste" into "food" is actually growing MREs from plastic wrappers.

The converters that come with the K&K basebuilding kit require copious amounts of electric charge and some ore -- this may actually be apt. I don't think I want to operate them, though.

[sturmhauke]

1 hour ago, Laie said:

In that context, a greenhouse turning "waste" into "food" is actually growing MREs from plastic wrappers.

I've never eaten an MRE, but from what I've heard that's probably how they're actually produced.

[Death Engineering]

On 5/3/2020 at 6:33 AM, Laie said:

The shuttles have brought down the last Base parts, a first pod has landed. You can already see where the next is supposed to go.

So.. question:

How do you get things out of the shuttle with the top opening?