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scottadges

Clipped parts sometimes completely shift location. Is this a bug?

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Hi, not sure where this should go, and not finding a relevant answer, so thought I’d ask the question.

Sometimes when using girders and other parts surface attached or clipped into another part, after a while it will completely change location.

It will often be 1-2 parts that maybe after time acceleration or completing a burn, I’ll switch scenes and find a part jutting out at strange angles.

(I can provide screenshots once I’m not on my phone)

Is this known behavior when clipping? Or maybe I’m dealing with a bug?

Reloading from a save or going back to Tracking Station won’t fix it. Once the part dislocates, it stays that way forever.

FYI I’m running KSP 1.4.3 with a number of mods. (Again, I can provide more details).

Thanks!

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You mean like, change the angle/position while keeping the parts attached to the shifted part at the same location? That often happens to me, not only with clipped parts. I think it happens because of the physical timewarp, combined with huge forces (like reentry/landing). It also sometimes happens on the launchpad, with a huge clipped craft.

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2 hours ago, LusBax said:

You mean like, change the angle/position while keeping the parts attached to the shifted part at the same location?

I think that’s what I’m saying. It’s hard to explain. Like, the root piece will be in place, but a clipped piece will be off apart from it but still “attached” while floating a ways off.

I figured it’s physics related, but it’s really random, so it’s hard to pinpoint if it’s a stock thing or maybe mod-related.

Anyone have suggestions to minimize this?

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I've been having the shrouds on my 1.25 separators shift off center, maybe 3/4 of a meter. It's usually after a flight to Minmus.

It doesn't seem to affect anything other than cosmetics.

 

I only have MechJeb, KAC and Waypoints on 1.4.4.2###

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It will usually reset if you switch vessels to one out of physics range, or to the KSC.  It really becomes a problem if the shifted part is now in the way of a decoupling/undocking action. 

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2 hours ago, Mahnarch said:

It doesn't seem to affect anything other than cosmetics.

Well, i wouldn't say so. The most desctructive (what do you say we call that) "shift glitch" occured to me on a spaceplane while reentering. The spaceplane had a mk1 cargo bay with batteries and solar panels.  The bay changed the angle and was affected by aerodynamics. It ended up being so bad, i had to abort landing since the plane became uncontrollable.

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Cant say Ive ever seen this behavior.

I have seen the interstage fairing problem as described above, and sometimes I get a glitch where the ship seems to forget where its axis is, as in, when told to hold to prograde it will hold to a point someways off prograde, and the error will be reflected in any autopilot manouvres.

Quicksave-Quickload solves all these problems.

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I've seen this behaviour before with a previous version of a falcon-9 work-alike rocket I made. The legs were supposed to lock in the deployed position with jr. docking ports attached to nosecones on the legs.  However, when I deployed the legs, some of the nosecones moved by about a meter relative to the parts they were attached to, completely ruining the docking port alignment.  Without all the legs locked, my rocket would fall over when it landed a la Falcon 9 v1.1 Jason-3:(  Didn't even turn on part clipping to make that happen.

Can't find a picture of it happening though, and I completely redesigned the legs so I don't see it happen anymore.

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7 hours ago, LusBax said:

~.  The bay changed the angle and was affected by aerodynamics. It ended up being so bad, i had to abort landing since the plane became uncontrollable.

Hmm. I hadn't run into aerodynamics since I usually separate those parts before re-entry.

Good to know beforehand!

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This is mostly caused by autostruts.  Essentially you take a craft that has autostrut on it, and after a bit of use (especially where largeish forces are applied), itll end up a tad twisted and or have parts out of place by a little bit, and the ONLY way to fix that is either disable the autostruts or quicksave/quickload.

 

This is actually the main reason i pretty quickly gave up on autostruts, since any vessel that gets shot at or fires any powerful weapon would end up crooked and unable to fire straight on subsequent shots.  With normal struts or no struts, the craft just wobbles back into its original position after recoil has done its thing, with autostrut it recoils and warps/bends and stays that way.

 

TLDR, avoid autostruts in anything but launch stages as they can be really screwy especially when used in large numbers.

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8 hours ago, panzer1b said:

This is mostly caused by autostruts.  Essentially you take a craft that has autostrut on it, and after a bit of use (especially where largeish forces are applied), itll end up a tad twisted and or have parts out of place by a little bit, and the ONLY way to fix that is either disable the autostruts or quicksave/quickload.

I agree, autostruts might be causing this, but for me, they are somehow essential. i can't just put ordinary struts all over my plane's wings. It raises part count and looks ugly. So, i think they are a great tool, but need to be used only when really needed.

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On 7/24/2018 at 1:40 AM, Mahnarch said:

I've been having the shrouds on my 1.25 separators shift off center, maybe 3/4 of a meter.

I think this is something to do with the 1.4.x version(s) of KSP since I was experiencing the shroud problem as well (tho different than my shifting problem in the OP) but didn't notice it in 1.3.x

I found this mod and it eliminates this by not using stock shrouds:

It's actually really a great mod and allows for much more control over shrouds when using decouplers. Doesn't apply to engine or heat shield shrouds as far as I can tell though.

On 7/24/2018 at 8:07 AM, EpicSpaceTroll139 said:

I've seen this behaviour before with a previous version of a falcon-9 work-alike rocket I made

That sounds similar to what I was experiencing. I'm trying to see if using girders to attach things when I'm clipping into other things will help "stabilize" them so they don't shift like that. 

So far, it seems to be helping. 

On 7/25/2018 at 3:09 AM, LusBax said:

I agree, autostruts might be causing this, but for me, they are somehow essential. i can't just put ordinary struts all over my plane's wings. It raises part count and looks ugly. So, i think they are a great tool, but need to be used only when really needed.

I'm in the same camp, using auto-struts keeps my craft from getting all wobbly. Although I could probably try without and see how it goes. I can't stand external struts connecting everywhere either.

 

Edited by scottadges

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Something else to note, in this playthrough I've been using Kerbalism and I think it made the situation drastically worse.

For example, I was attempting to do a Mun flyby with a craft that had only 1 part seriously clipping. And then I noticed randomly, it would shudder and non-clipped parts would be slightly off-kilter. After a few re-loads, I also noticed each time that this one clipped part was further and further away from the craft (but still attached).

The whole thing became seriously unmanageable (remember, only 1 clipped part) until the point when upon re-load it just kept exploding. Restarting the game didn't fix it either. That craft was borked.

Anyway... I turned off the malfunctions capability in Kerbalism and since then, no more shifty-explodey-nonsense.

Edited by scottadges

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I have not seen this happen but it sounds like a support issue, and so, moved to support. 

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