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Changing effectiveness of science experiments


eatU4myT

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Not sure if this is the right sub-forum for this, feel free to move if not.

I'm wondering if there is a way to change how effective running science experiments is.  I know you can alter the science rewards in the difficulty settings so that an experiment only yields x% of what it normally would, but that doesn't stop the experiment being  completed to the same level.  For example, a crew report splashed down in Kerbin's oceans would only yield part of science value it would normally, but you would still be unable to run it again, as the "experiment" is complete, and in the R&D archives the bar for that experiment would be full.  On the other hand, a mystery goo experiment in the same location would need to be repeated two or three times (for reducing rewards) to fully fill the bar.

Is it possible to change this?  The reason I'd like to make the change is that it would make repeating missions more relevant, which a) feels "more like real life" (e.g. NASA gained additional knowledge from the reports of the Apollo 12/14/15/16/17 crews when they returned from the moon, they didn't discover everything there was to know when the Apollo 11 crew came home (ok, slightly dubious example, as part of the additional information would be represented by visiting different biomes, but you get the idea)), and b) gives you more launches to do in a career, making it last longer.  (for me, longer game = more fun, I know not everyone feels the same!)

Apologies if I've missed something really obvious, like a slider in the stock game that does exactly this...!  :blush:

 

Thanks

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This isn't hard, but it's not a stock slider either.  ;)  You're going to need to write a Module Manager patch.  (Well, you could edit the Squad files directly - but that's not a good idea.)  Specifically, you need to change the 'baseValue' of the science experiments you want to edit - and reduce them.  As long as the baseValue is less than the scienceCap, it should take more than one data collection to get all the data, I believe.

So, for instance (untested):

@EXPERIMENT_DEFINITION[*]:HAS[#id[crewReport]]
{
	@baseValue = 3;
}

It's probably also worth looking at this thread, as it's dealing with similar:

 

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That's really helpful, thanks!

So, if I was to leave scienceCap at their stock values, and set baseValue to around half their stock values, I would have to repeat the experiment around twice as many times to get all the available science, but he total science I would receive would be the same as in the stock game? (I get that it might not be a direct half/double relationship)

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53 minutes ago, eatU4myT said:

That's really helpful, thanks!

So, if I was to leave scienceCap at their stock values, and set baseValue to around half their stock values, I would have to repeat the experiment around twice as many times to get all the available science, but he total science I would receive would be the same as in the stock game? (I get that it might not be a direct half/double relationship)

A bit more than twice as many times - you get less science each time you do a transmission, on a decaying multiplier.  (Which I don't know how it's calculated.  It's quite possible that if you halve the baseValue, you quadruple the amount of times you'll have to repeat it.)  But yes, the total amount of science you receive would be set by the scienceCap.

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Thanks again. Last question (hopefully...!) - in the thread that you referenced, the .cfg file contains a last section where they are dealing with any possible future/mod experiments using:

@EXPERIMENT_DEFINITION[*]
{
    @baseValue *= 0.625

They go on to change scienceCap as well, which I wouldn't need, but am I right in thinking that the intention of this line is to amend baseValue to 62.5% of whatever stock would have been, across the board? If so, my .cfg is going to be literally just those two lines, and I can play around with the percentage very easily?!

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1 hour ago, eatU4myT said:

Thanks again. Last question (hopefully...!) - in the thread that you referenced, the .cfg file contains a last section where they are dealing with any possible future/mod experiments using:


@EXPERIMENT_DEFINITION[*]
{
    @baseValue *= 0.625

They go on to change scienceCap as well, which I wouldn't need, but am I right in thinking that the intention of this line is to amend baseValue to 62.5% of whatever stock would have been, across the board? If so, my .cfg is going to be literally just those two lines, and I can play around with the percentage very easily?!

Make sure you close your brackets, of course.   ;)  But yes, if you just want to change *all* the experiments, that will work.

Note this will also affect modded experiments, and stock experiments that already have to be transmitted several times.  (I know some modded experiments which need ~10 transmissions before they're no longer worth transmitting - and even then it's often worth bringing them back as well.)

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Right, first attempt at using module manager this morning didn't work quite as planned. The .cfg file appeared to be used, but not withheld expected result. I started a new career game, launched a command pod, and ran a crew report right on the launchpad, and it a) completly filled the bar for the experiment, making it non-repeatable, and b) was only worth 1.5 science (I think in stock on Kerbin surface it should be worth 3?)

So, what have I misunderstood about baseValue? Or have I gone wrong in a way I haven't yet realised?!

Thanks

 

Never mind, got this working now.  In case anyone is interested in the final .cfg I went with the following.  It results in experiments needing to be repeated around 2-3 times as often as in stock to get most of the value. Obviously some of the high value experiments that already needed repeating are now going to need a *lot* of repeating, especially on high value worlds!  I'll play through this career with it, and if it is too harsh, I might try reducing baseValue by a set amount, rather than by a factor.  We shall see!

@EXPERIMENT_DEFINITION:Final
{
    @baseValue *= 0.667
}
Edited by eatU4myT
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  • 1 month later...

I run and maintain a personal mod similar to this, and I also changed crew reports to be biome dependent.

Doesn't work as well as hoped, though, it effectively only Nerfed EVAs and doesn't let me store multiple crew reports (which is unlike EVAs worked).

Any ideas how to make multiple crew reports storeable?

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You may have already tried this, but as far as I know the solution for this is to EVA your Kerbal, "Collect Data" from the crew module, and then "Store Data" to put it back again.  Then, when you get back into the module, you can create a new crew report without overwriting the first.

Editing to add:  You can still only collect and store one Crew Report per Biome this way in any one crew module, but that is the same as other types of science e.g. EVA reports.

Edited by eatU4myT
to clarify
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11 hours ago, eatU4myT said:

You may have already tried this, but as far as I know the solution for this is to EVA your Kerbal, "Collect Data" from the crew module, and then "Store Data" to put it back again.  Then, when you get back into the module, you can create a new crew report without overwriting the first.

Hmmm, this workaround defeats the purpose of not having to EVA in every biome (even though the more I play it like this, the less fun I have, so maybe I will leave it at stock)

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