KSP Weekly: Thrusting into the future

[StarStreak2109]

29 minutes ago, Homedawgian said:

Used to love this game so much. At this point I find the sheer lack of support to be intentional and disrespectful. After a thorough review of the rules I have found my following statement to be in full compliance.

For those of you sharing my frustration, go check out SimpleRockets 2! Still in development but looks incredible and seems to be a really solid attempt at replacing KSP entirely. The developer is constantly responding to feedback, being entirely transparent and actually seems to care about their fan base. They are completely supportive of player made mods just like Squad has been and almost every single part can be resized/adjusted to meet your needs without having to stack a bunch of stock parts together.

Squad, you did great for a very long time and I’ve never had so much enjoyment from playing a video game. You will always have that special place in my heart and I will always miss the good ol’ days. The time is coming to pass the torch.

Now now, that is a bit strong, isn't it?!?

First of all, yes, the game has bugs, some more apparent than others. Would I love to have them all fixed??? Why yes, of course. Are they game breaking? Not for me anyway and I see way more people enjoying the game than people giving up because of the game's frustrations as you are implying for yourself.

Let's be clear, were it not for the awesome community and all the mods (not moderators, but those are good too, mostly... ), the game would be pretty dull, and I would have given up on it as well...

I cannot however support your statement that Squad are deliberately not supporting the game. I mean yes, they make the appearance of a somewhat overwhelmed, sometimes disorganized team, and the recent diaspora of the original game's devs hasn't probably helped either.

But they are churning away at those bugs ever so slowly. Maybe not always those we would have preferred, but at least they are still sticking to it. Of course it would have been a great thing, if the 1.4 update hadn't introduced so many new bugs...

Now you say that you see SimpleRockets 2 as a worthy successor to KSP. That is your prerogative of course, I however have only seen a handful of teaser videos and screens on Steam, so I can't confirm that it's scope can indeed replace KSP. There I fact some things I like about it, for instance the procedural rocket building process.

I have found no info on it's Modding capacity, so I have to take your word for it. However I can't support your opinion that Squad does not support mods, with mods being what makes KSP what it is today.

So yeah, if SimpleRockets 2 is your thing, then have fun, personally I'll stick with KSP for the time being...

[ThirdOfSeven]

4 minutes ago, Farix said:

News Flash: The art team cannot do anything about fixing bugs, but they still need to earn their keep. 

Do you mean there is nobody but art team left? I don't understand. Can you please clarify.

Edited September 8, 2018 by ThirdOfSeven

[Farix]

9 minutes ago, ThirdOfSeven said:

Do you mean there is nobody but art team left? I don't understand. Can you please clarify.

It means that the art team's work does not affect the progress of the dev team to fixing bugs. And if the art team is not actively working on anything, then they are a financial drain on the company. So they could either continue to do their art and modeling work, or Squad could just fire them as "unneeded". But if they did the latter, they will need to hire a new art team when it comes time to add new art assets into the game. And that would be a larger financial drain than if they simply kept the old team on staff.

Your basic argument came down to complaining that Squad was focused on "revamped art assets" rather than "fixing bugs." The two, however, have no relationship to one another. You cannot simply reassign the art team to program development and expect bug fixes to come faster.

Edited September 8, 2018 by Farix

[klgraham1013]

17 minutes ago, Farix said:

The art team...need to earn their keep.

There you go.

[ThirdOfSeven]

5 minutes ago, Farix said:

It means that the art team's work does not affect the progress of the dev team to fixing bugs. And if the art team is not actively working on anything, then they are a financial drain on the company. So they could either continue to do their art and modeling work, or Squad could just fire them as "unneeded". But if they did the latter, they will need to hire a new art team when it comes time to add new art assets into the game. And that would be a larger financial drain than if they simply kept the old team on staff. 

It is pretty simple stuff anybody understand and you don't need to clarify it. Question was about why we have work on 1.5 reported and nothing about fixing bugs in 1.4.x. Any hint on possible 1.4.6, 1.4.7 bug-fix releases work will be appreciated.

[klgraham1013]

1 minute ago, ThirdOfSeven said:

It is pretty simple stuff anybody understand and you don't need to clarify it. Question was about why we have work on 1.5 reported and nothing about fixing bugs in 1.4.x. Any hint on possible 1.4.6, 1.4.7 bug-fix releases work will be appreciated.

There won't be a 1.4.6.  Once Squad start talking about the next major release, any possibility of a minor release disappears.  

[Homedawgian]

26 minutes ago, StarStreak2109 said:

Now now, that is a bit strong, isn't it?!?

First of all, yes, the game has bugs, some more apparent than others. Would I love to have them all fixed??? Why yes, of course. Are they game breaking? Not for me anyway and I see way more people enjoying the game than people giving up because of the game's frustrations as you are implying for yourself.

Let's be clear, were it not for the awesome community and all the mods (not moderators, but those are good too, mostly... ), the game would be pretty dull, and I would have given up on it as well...

I cannot however support your statement that Squad are deliberately not supporting the game. I mean yes, they make the appearance of a somewhat overwhelmed, sometimes disorganized team, and the recent diaspora of the original game's devs hasn't probably helped either.

But they are churning away at those bugs ever so slowly. Maybe not always those we would have preferred, but at least they are still sticking to it. Of course it would have been a great thing, if the 1.4 update hadn't introduced so many new bugs...

Now you say that you see SimpleRockets 2 as a worthy successor to KSP. That is your prerogative of course, I however have only seen a handful of teaser videos and screens on Steam, so I can't confirm that it's scope can indeed replace KSP. There I fact some things I like about it, for instance the procedural rocket building process.

I have found no info on it's Modding capacity, so I have to take your word for it. However I can't support your opinion that Squad does not support mods, with mods being what makes KSP what it is today.

So yeah, if SimpleRockets 2 is your thing, then have fun, personally I'll stick with KSP for the time being...

I may be a bit extra salty considering I am currently only able to play console version which is still broken and no longer even mentioned by the devs. You may have misread me a bit though on the mod support part. I stated that SR2 is also supporting mods. It’s quite apparent that KSP wouldn’t be what it is today without them. If you’d like more info on SR2 out of curiosity, go subscribe to their mailing list. They have regular progress updates and feel free to directly message the devs, they actually reply! 

[StarStreak2109]

12 minutes ago, Homedawgian said:

I may be a bit extra salty considering I am currently only able to play console version which is still broken and no longer even mentioned by the devs. You may have misread me a bit though on the mod support part. I stated that SR2 is also supporting mods. It’s quite apparent that KSP wouldn’t be what it is today without them. If you’d like more info on SR2 out of curiosity, go subscribe to their mailing list. They have regular progress updates and feel free to directly message the devs, they actually reply! 

Okay, that part eluded me. I would be mega-salty if I were stuck on the console version...

Regarding the communication with the developers. I agree that this used to be better in the past. I guess it is the normal circle for an ex-indie game, which used to be developed by a single guy / small team. Now it is still a small team, but virtually none of the original guys are left, so I sometimes wonder, if what they are doing, is "just a job" or whether their heart is really in it like it was with Harvester and his initial core team.

The way things are going right now, I fear KSP is on a slow but certain decline, which is a shame considering the potential this game still has.

I would definitely love to be proven otherwise.

Regarding the game's development cycle, I do hope that we will one day get a mostly stable version, which may be the last iteration ever, which would be a solid base for modders to work on to continue improving the game with new toys. It would then be of less importance if there will ever be a KSP 2... (or some other spiritual successor).

[Homedawgian]

2 minutes ago, StarStreak2109 said:

Okay, that part eluded me. I would be mega-salty if I were stuck on the console version...

Regarding the communication with the developers. I agree that this used to be better in the past. I guess it is the normal circle for an ex-indie game, which used to be developed by a single guy / small team. Now it is still a small team, but virtually none of the original guys are left, so I sometimes wonder, if what they are doing, is "just a job" or whether their heart is really in it like it was with Harvester and his initial core team.

The way things are going right now, I fear KSP is on a slow but certain decline, which is a shame considering the potential this game still has.

I would definitely love to be proven otherwise.

Regarding the game's development cycle, I do hope that we will one day get a mostly stable version, which may be the last iteration ever, which would be a solid base for modders to work on to continue improving the game with new toys. It would then be of less importance if there will ever be a KSP 2... (or some other spiritual successor).

I’m absolutely 100% with you on every word of that. KSP will always have that special place in my heart and it’s a shame to see it handled this way. I’d love to see a triple A studio take over and really make it shine but that may be wishful thinking.

[klgraham1013]

9 minutes ago, StarStreak2109 said:

Regarding the game's development cycle, I do hope that we will one day get a mostly stable version, which may be the last iteration ever, which would be a solid base for modders to work on to continue improving the game with new toys. It would then be of less importance if there will ever be a KSP 2... (or some other spiritual successor).

This completely.

[severedsolo]

29 minutes ago, Homedawgian said:

I’d love to see a triple A studio take over and really make it shine but that may be wishful thinking.

*I in no way intend this to be taken seriously*

Hmm, lets see what would happen shall we?

Ubisoft: collect jebs suits that have been left scattered around the landscape

EA: Want that new booster? Pay £0.99 for a chance to win it in a lockbox

Firaxis: Buy at least three expansion packs to unlock all the content.

Bethesda: Rovers will float above the terrain, even if they aren't supposed to

Codemasters: Pay £40 every year for minor changes masquerading as a "KSP 2018/19/20" etc.

Rockstar: Well at least we might get multiplayer and shut a few people up.

*semi serious bit*

Also, when was the last time that a AAA company actually seriously accepted feedback from the community? Say what you like about Squad, but they do at least take an interest.

[Poodmund]

37 minutes ago, severedsolo said:

Firaxis: Buy at least three expansion packs to unlock all the content.

Rockstar: Well at least we might get multiplayer and shut a few people up.

I hope that you appreciate that Firaxis and Rockstar are both under Take 2 Interactive just like KSP is (via-Private Division)... but I get your point.  

[panzer1b]

21 hours ago, SQUAD said:

 

Ill be honest, and i actually like these models WAY more then the old ones.  Now there are a few things that i could get super picky about like the (hard to tell from the renders) lack of a specular map, the white color looks a little bit off from the porkjet white making seamless transitions look a little derpy, copy/pasted texture on the RT-10 which makes the top and bottom identical, and no clue on whether the part comes with proper glow animations when its running (which is a huge deal since nothing in making history came with glow layers and many of the old models seem to have lost their glows as well and it completely kills any immersion). 

 

Still, im EXTREMELY happy about what looks like ACTUAL EDGES on this part and not textures magically changing from whatever is on the edge to whatever is on the top/bottom.  The biggest eyesore in just about ANY game ive played that has is are textures that unexplaineable change from one to another resulting in crappy seams (best example is the edges of the foil on last week's revamped hex probe), and this part seems to be going in the right direction.  As for lack of an apparent normal map, i really dont see why its necessary (after seeing what porkjet could pull off on the simplest of 3d models without a normal map just using specular mapping), so whether it has a normal map or not i really dont care aslong as it has some specular (which is imo far more valuable visually then normal mapping).

 

The yellow color i dont mind at all as is (and prefer it over pure white) since i like NEVER use monoprop on anything but starfighters and those only use the smallest monoprop tanks or whatevers inside the cockpit.  Really like the yellow stripes (wouldnt mind if they were a different color or had like a few color styles to choose from, maybee red as someone suggested b4), so plz dont remove them entirely.  Nice to have something that breaks up the monotony of everything being white or grey as almost every ship i make is almost entirely made of MK2/3 parts, wings, armor panels (1x1 and 2x2 panels) and exposed fuel tanks, or some combination of those things, so that results in everything being a combination of white, grey, and some black, yellow (or whetver color you wanna make it that isnt some shade of grey) is very welcome for variety.

 

Finally, my last complement has to go towards the end cap, which is phenomenal compared to what ive seen previously.  Its simple but at the same time has actual detail to it which really makes that part alot prettier (especially for me since 90% of RT-5s in use at the AKS space program are used as stock warheads and have that end cap visible when loaded on capital ships).  Thanks alot for actually putting some real effort towards a part, and not cutting too many corners in the process (yeah that copy/pasted texture sux, but i can live with that unlike the plethora of issues i saw last week's revamp preview)!

Edited September 8, 2018 by panzer1b

[steve_v]

2 hours ago, StarStreak2109 said:

I would be mega-salty if I were stuck on the console version...

So it's only reasonable to be salty about the console version?

2 hours ago, StarStreak2109 said:

Now it is still a small team, but virtually none of the original guys are left, so I sometimes wonder, if what they are doing, is "just a job" or whether their heart is really in it like it was with Harvester and his initial core team.

Some days I wonder if there is anyone left who really knows how the core game works... Seems like I heard something close to panic when they withheld a patch recently over concerns there might be issues with the PQS system.

2 hours ago, StarStreak2109 said:

I fear KSP is on a slow but certain decline, which is a shame considering the potential this game still has.

You and me both.
I've pretty much given up on the game reaching it's potential now, all that remains is some lingering hope for a stable, mostly bug-free release. Then mods can fill in the gaps without being broken every 6 months.

Edited September 8, 2018 by steve_v

[StarStreak2109]

17 minutes ago, steve_v said:

So it's only reasonable to be salty about the console version?

Some days I wonder if there is anyone left who really knows how the core game works... Seems like I heard something close to panic when they withheld a patch recently over concerns there might be issues with the PQS system.

You and me both.
I've pretty much given up on the game reaching it's potential now, all that remains is some lingering hope for a stable, mostly bug-free release. Then mods can fill in the gaps without being broken every 6 months.

I believe that there is a certain potential for salt also in the non-console version. But as I have said before, at least we have a working version with mods, which is at least playable and enjoys further development, which apparently cannot be said about the console version.

I believe also that whoever is working on the code has to first and foremost get a handle on the code base, which I have the impression may not be easy, as KSP is definitely not within the original scope (way past it), so it's bound to be a (more or less) undocumented (hopefully not) mess of code written by dozens of people. No wonder that the amount of bugs is not decreasing...

[Redneck]

6 hours ago, Homedawgian said:

Used to love this game so much. At this point I find the sheer lack of support to be intentional and disrespectful. After a thorough review of the rules I have found my following statement to be in full compliance.

For those of you sharing my frustration, go check out SimpleRockets 2! Still in development but looks incredible and seems to be a really solid attempt at replacing KSP entirely. The developer is constantly responding to feedback, being entirely transparent and actually seems to care about their fan base. They are completely supportive of player made mods just like Squad has been and almost every single part can be resized/adjusted to meet your needs without having to stack a bunch of stock parts together.

Squad, you did great for a very long time and I’ve never had so much enjoyment from playing a video game. You will always have that special place in my heart and I will always miss the good ol’ days. The time is coming to pass the torch.

I happen to agree with this. I to have been looking into simple rockets 2 as a alternative or complete replacement to KSP. we will just have to see. I think it is going to have a early release in october.  It will be a unity game. It will have modding/modding API. From what i can tell it will have as much as KSP does. The only thing I am not sure about is Multiplayer still trying to get some info on that. And please if you are not a multiplayer fan thats fine just play single player we dont need a debate over this ok? I found this non-steam video. I dont know how legit it is or any background on it 

So get ready modders,new and old, our time to shine will soon be at hand. And it can not come soon enough

https://store.steampowered.com/app/870200/SimpleRockets_2/

Edited September 8, 2018 by Redneck

[Burning Kan]

23 hours ago, SQUAD said:

new top that brings them closer to their real-life analogues

good job!looks convex a little bit

23 hours ago, SQUAD said:

belts and other heavy rings were also removed to make the boosters look lighter and more aerodynamic

also good job guys,love the orange convex tankbutt,and the nozzle shape/texture. much better

23 hours ago, SQUAD said:

Additionally, both of these boosters will have a secondary stripe-less texture variant that you’ll be able to choose at will

very appreciated.options are always good

good devnotes

my recommentation for starmods:

new tanks,mk1 pod,hecs&hecs2,eva suit,SRBs,new shader/textures and occupieable external seat a.s.o

seems like a good update for me .

and a couple of fixes/performance tweaks are always welcome on my side

,and its ok when people gets emotional from a game the burn for

but plz dont say the should quit develop,1200 bugs still open )

ksp gets better with every update- same will happen with 1.5

On 8/3/2018 at 10:25 PM, SQUAD said:

sweep of the bug trackers to clear up a number of the issues in there - focusing on the ones that have impact to many players

hope the continue develop after 1.5 release

 

 

 

Edited September 8, 2018 by Burning Kan

[Cassel]

23 hours ago, HebaruSan said:

Just to emphasize what might not be obvious:

I think that's not an accident, since last week's preview was phrased the same way. They're not asking for feedback, and what we see is what we will get. (Note that no previously critiqued part has been returned to with revisions; the artists have probably already moved on to the next makeover.)

These images are probably being shared solely in the hopes of building hype. Do with that what you will.

And this is an advantage, because maybe people who are developing the game can make quick decisions, which should speed up the game's development.

[klgraham1013]

1 hour ago, Cassel said:

And this is an advantage, because maybe people who are developing the game can make quick decisions, which should speed up the game's development.

It can also put you in a bubble where you can't see the problems that are right in front of you.  It's always good to get a second opinion.

[nestor]

On 9/7/2018 at 3:50 PM, HebaruSan said:

I think that's not an accident, since last week's preview was phrased the same way. They're not asking for feedback, and what we see is what we will get.

Don’t take it too literal. We are open for feedback. If that wasn’t the case it would be easier not to show the parts until the release. The whole team is reading your comments every week but at the same time it’s impossible to please everyone. 

[klgraham1013]

20 minutes ago, nestor said:

at the same time it’s impossible to please everyone. 

Nor should you try.  This is a far to common excuse that needs to go away.  Not necessarily aimed at you.  Just in general.

[JadeOfMaar]

@nestor I think you'd be surprised how straightforward the list is, if the intention is indeed to satisfy a great majority of the playerbase. It may require devoting a whole iteration of game releases though (all of 1.5.x) to just fixes and not adding eye candy and new functions, but would be quite worth it. But this is just my opinion. If it's misguided and not worth any salt, be my guest and ignore/dismiss this.

• Clear the public Bugtracker
• Revise the planet textures so they look "better" like what's going on with parts, and fix any logical issues with them such as Kerbin's jagged polar ice shelf and PQS collider things
• Remake Career mode to accommodate whatever suggestion wiser players than myself may have (I never play career mode so I have no examples)
• Swap out the stock engine sounds for a suite that's palatable, something like pre-1.4, something that doesn't sound like vacuum cleaners with their pitch turned up and a distortion effect added to them. The sound change was, by far, a big step backwards.

[FleshJeb]

2 hours ago, nestor said:

Don’t take it too literal. We are open for feedback. If that wasn’t the case it would be easier not to show the parts until the release. The whole team is reading your comments every week but at the same time it’s impossible to please everyone. 

You know what I do when a project of mine is receiving fierce criticism from my clients? I run and hide for a few days until I muster up the courage to answer back.

I give you a lot of credit for showing up and being here.

[scimas]

4 hours ago, nestor said:

 Don’t take it too literal. We are open for feedback.

Could you please ask whoever is writing the post to use the phrasing "mostly completed" from next time? It makes clear that the art team is happy with what they have done but are also open to make changes depending on feedback.

Just asking to avoid the finality that "completed this work" expresses. 

[Cassel]

8 hours ago, klgraham1013 said:

It can also put you in a bubble where you can't see the problems that are right in front of you.  It's always good to get a second opinion.

I remember the times when the developers decided how to the game should look , no one then asked the player what you wanted, and from that period there are many great games. KSP looks like an endless telenovela, which after so many years is far from being completed. Can you imagine a studio producing the game in 1990 so that after all these years of work it still had no finished product and was still carrying out "market research" what people want?

edit:
And in 1990 there was no unity or another magical engine making half of the project for the developer.

Edited September 9, 2018 by Cassel