KSP Weekly: Mapping with Magellan

[Cheif Operations Director]

1 minute ago, Redneck said:

ok so what is squad supposed to do about it then? 

as far as you console players i feel your pain i really do but these are the guys you should be poodleing at http://www.blitworks.com/kerbal_space_program/

edit: lol poodleing (wasnt my choice of words but ok)

Their is no blitworks forums!

[Redneck]

1 minute ago, The_Cat_In_Space said:

For some reason I'm imagining KSP on Unreal or Frostbite. Maybe we will have Levolution for the space center in a future update?

I myself have worked in UE4. I want you to go and find any tutorial on youtube on how to do PQS (procedural quad sphere) in UE4. There is one addon on the marketplace for like $100 that will do it as well as another for voxel terrain BUT you cant expect squad to completely re-write KSP can you?

3 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Their is no blitworks forums!

exactly. So why poodle about it here? what will that accomplish?

[Cheif Operations Director]

Just now, Redneck said:

I myself have worked in UE4. I want you to go and find any tutorial on youtube on how to do PQS (procedural quad sphere) in UE4. There is one addon on the marketplace for like $100 that will do it as well as another for voxel terrain BUT you cant expect squad to completely re-write KSP can you?

Why not, they marketed the game a fully functioning so technically every software developer who has bugs in a release could sue. 

1 minute ago, Redneck said:

I myself have worked in UE4. I want you to go and find any tutorial on youtube on how to do PQS (procedural quad sphere) in UE4. There is one addon on the marketplace for like $100 that will do it as well as another for voxel terrain BUT you cant expect squad to completely re-write KSP can you?

exactly. So why poodle about it here? what will that accomplish?

Your second point, where else will we do so?

[Redneck]

6 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Why not, they marketed the game a fully functioning so technically every software developer who has bugs in a release could sue. 

Your second point, where else will we do so?

i have no answers other then on their website it has a contact in top right corner of their webpage. Flood their email inbox. Not sure how effective that would be but....

[scimas]

6 minutes ago, Redneck said:

So why poodle about it here? what will that accomplish?

What else are they supposed to do? Blitworks might be working on the console version, but they aren't separate from Squad as far as KSP is concerned. The console players bought the game from Squad (might be owned by T2 now, but originally Squad). And this is a forum for all KSP players, not just KSP PC players. Until and unless Squad/T2/Blitworks decide to open a different forum for console players, this is the place for them to praise, complain or whatever. 

[Redneck]

Just now, scimas said:

What else are they supposed to do? Blitworks might be working on the console version, but they aren't separate from Squad as far as KSP is concerned. The console players bought the game from Squad (might be owned by T2 now, but originally Squad). And this is a forum for all KSP players, not just KSP PC players. Until and unless Squad/T2/Blitworks decide to open a different forum for console players, this is the place for them to praise, complain or whatever. 

well...ok. 

[HebaruSan]

7 minutes ago, Redneck said:

exactly. So why poodle about it here? what will that accomplish?

SQUAD and/or Take Two hired Blitworks to port 1.2.2 to consoles. Since we haven't heard anything about them since that port was released, that contract probably expired. SQUAD and/or Take Two would have to start a new contract with them to port 1.3.1 or 1.4.5. Asking them to do that seems like a reasonable enough request to me.

1 hour ago, The_Cat_In_Space said:

I didn't spend $50 on a game to only be stuck in one version with no new content.

A strange notion; that's exactly how games worked, once upon a time. Care to guess how many free updates there were for the first Super Mario or Zelda games?

[steve_v]

11 minutes ago, Redneck said:

ok so what is squad supposed to do about it then? 

Work around it by writing their own code to replace the unity builtins that don't do what they need, shell out for a source-code licence and fix the game engine themselves, or port the game to another engine.
All of these require work/money, but the alternative is forever being slave to the whims of a cheap-ass game engine that was never designed for your use case.

Solutions to the wheel issues have been suggested, and the response was, essentially, if it's not something we can buy off-the-shelf, we're not interested.
A solution to the input issues on GNU/Linux already exists, but again it's not something that can be bought ready-made in the Unity store. It would require some programming work from Squad, and some native programming work at that. They're not interested.

[Redneck]

1 minute ago, HebaruSan said:

SQUAD and/or Take Two hired Blitworks to port 1.2.2 to consoles. Since we haven't heard anything about them since that port was released, that contract probably expired. SQUAD and/or Take Two would have to start a new contract with them to port 1.3.1 or 1.4.5. Asking them to do that seems like a reasonable enough request to me.

hey...whatever ....dont let me stop you guys. I hope it works out. Good luck

4 minutes ago, steve_v said:

Work around it by writing their own code to replace the unity builtins that don't do what they need, shell out for a source-code licence and fix the game engine themselves, or port the game to another engine.
All of these require work/money, but the alternative is forever being slave to the whims of a cheap-ass game engine that was never designed for your use case.

Solutions to the wheel issues have been suggested, and the response was, essentially, if it's not something we can buy off-the-shelf, we're not interested.
A solution to the input issues on GNU/Linux already exists, but again it's not something that can be bought ready-made in the Unity store. It would require some programming work from Squad, and some native programming work at that. They're not interested.

No i agree with you..dont get me wrong. But it is like you said yourself "All of these require work/money" To tell you the truth im really surprised squad is still updating the game at all much less doing a major update like you are talking about. 

[steve_v]

15 minutes ago, HebaruSan said:

Care to guess how many free updates there were for the first Super Mario or Zelda games?

Care to guess how many game-breaking save-corrupting bugs there were in the first Super Mario or Zelda games?
Care to guess how many different releases with different feature-sets there were being sold at the same time?

If KSP were a finished game with the same content on every platform, we wouldn't be here.
It's not, and I can absolutely understand the frustration of watching new stuff being released and knowing you can't have it because you bought the lemon version of the game.
If the console port was advertised with a big "you won't get updates like the PC release will", this would be fair enough. It wasn't, and there was no warning to the customer that they were purchasing an inferior product.
 

On that note, if I knew the GNU/Linux build was going to get shafted every time the game engine is updated, I wouldn't have bought it at all.

Edited September 17, 2018 by steve_v

[razark]

19 minutes ago, steve_v said:

Care to guess how many game-breaking save-corrupting bugs there were in the first Super Mario or Zelda games?
Care to guess how many different releases with different feature-sets there were being sold at the same time?

I'm going to guess two.  Is it two? 

What do I win if I get the right guess?

[steve_v]

7 minutes ago, razark said:

What do I win if I get the right guess? 

Uhh, a carrot? I think I have some of those around here.

[razark]

1 minute ago, steve_v said:

Uhh, a carrot? I think I have some of those around here.

Awesome!  I just threw away all the carrots in my fridge, so I could use a new one.

[Deddly]

15 hours ago, steve_v said:

As much as I dislike microsoft, they at least have a handle on fixing their screwups in a timely manner.

Pfffft. My stylus pen was almost unusable for about a year following an update. 

I'm dying to know what @passinglurker thinks of these new textures. At first I didn't know what to think about the plain grey part on the HECS but then I figured that it is probably where the flag goes. 

Edited September 17, 2018 by Deddly
Speeling

[LegendaryAce]

Well, if it's any consolation, Jundroo (the creators of SimplePlanes) are planning on releasing SimpleRockets 2 by October, which is just like KSP, only it works and you can play it on your phone. 

https://www.simplerockets.com/

Edited September 17, 2018 by LegendaryAce

[klgraham1013]

8 hours ago, The_Cat_In_Space said:

I didn't spend $50 on a game to only be stuck in one version with no new content.

If you're an avid gamer, I'd bet you actually do this all the time.

Still, I see your point, as there is a version of the same game far beyond what you have.

7 hours ago, Redneck said:

ok so what is squad supposed to do about it then? 

Write their own wheel code?

[Tyko]

9 hours ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Their is no blitworks forums!

They're on Twitter and they have an email address. just wondering if unhappy console users are contacting them as frequently as they are posting on here. I bet Blitworks actually sees their own twitter and email. I also bet they don't have anyone dedicated to reading comments on KSP forums

https://twitter.com/BlitWorks

[email protected]

[Farix]

11 hours ago, The_Cat_In_Space said:

And again, no news for Enhanced Edition. 

What about the Xbox and PS4 players?

My guess is that the ROI of the console port wasn't worth the effort. You do realize that a game can be a financial success on one platform but a failure on another?

Quote

I didn't spend $50 on a game to only be stuck in one version with no new content.

That is pretty standard for most console games. Once the game is shipped, that is the end of its development cycle and the company, in this case BlitWorks, moves on to the next project.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Farix

[Tyko]

11 hours ago, razark said:

Awesome!  I just threw away all the carrots in my fridge, so I could use a new one.

If you are so casually throwing away carrots why should we send you any more...you'll probably just throw that one away too 

[Nertea]

Alrighty I'm pretty pleased in the majority about this part! Some highlights.

• Pretty nice blend of clean lines and weathering on that pod.
• You took my suggestion about not just using a scaled down 1.25m endcap texture for the top! 10 points to Gryffindor!
• The probe is definitely an improvement.

So, your artists are obviously capable of this. We can move to the actual issues with this work:

• Let's talk consistency. The problem with KSP's art, in my opinion, has never really been its quality - it has been consistency. Artistic consistency is a hallmark of any quality project, whether it's a game, a book, a movie, whatever. Please commit to a particular style and match things to it. Here's a few examples of pretty bad collisions. 
  • You have now introduced a third distinct type of "spehss foil" into the game. There's the MLI ends on the Hitchiker, the Baguette tank, and the new pod. They're all totally different, and not just in colour. 
  • I can't count the number of different window colours going on, nor the amount of different white and blacks. This should really be fixed. It's not at all difficult and required maybe 1-2 weeks of work from a single artist. It will pay huge dividends. 
  • The quality differences between, say, the 1.25m tanks (new) and the 1.25m tanks (aircraft) are shocking, and this is really a style thing. Pick one or the other - the longer you wait to do this, the worse it will be. 
  • The quality in general is all over the map!
• Texture switching, while fun sometimes,  can start to destroy the visual identity of parts. Overusing it instead of designing well in the first place is concerning in terms of art identity. I'm also seeing it used as a technique to brush problems with parts under the rug. I would love for you guys to design a part well instead of hobbling the system with a lot of pointless variants. 

And finally, @SQUAD, apologies if I've missed the answer to this one before, but an important question from me - are you actually replacing parts in this update, or are you deprecating and keeping legacy bits around like you did in the 1.4.x updates? I assume you are replacing, because otherwise all this optimization would be for naught. 

[DunaManiac]

22 hours ago, Starwaster said:

1. Because then there would never BE new content. They will NEVER be done fixing things.  

I feel like this exact thing is happening for console versions. We haven't gotten any update news since the second patch. I'm starting to wonder If they're even doing it. I wish they would stop pretending that console players don't exist and at least give us some update news.

5 hours ago, Farix said:

My guess is that the ROI of the console port wasn't worth the effort. You do realize that a game can be a financial success on one platform but a failure on another? 

That is pretty standard for most console games. Once the game is shipped, that is the end of its development cycle and the company, in this case BlitWorks, moves on to the next project. 

That's rather unfortunate, but shouldn't console development have some diversity? Look at Minecraft on the PS4 and Xbox 1. They get updates, although a little bit later, and although one version of the Xbox 1 version has stopped being developed, their development team has told everyone and even released a new version! I wish squad was more like this.

15 hours ago, HebaruSan said:

SQUAD and/or Take Two hired Blitworks to port 1.2.2 to consoles. Since we haven't heard anything about them since that port was released, that contract probably expired. SQUAD and/or Take Two would have to start a new contract with them to port 1.3.1 or 1.4.5. Asking them to do that seems like a reasonable enough request to me. 

A strange notion; that's exactly how games worked, once upon a time. Care to guess how many free updates there were for the first Super Mario or Zelda games? 

But then why do the other platform does get some free updates?

6 hours ago, Farix said:

What about the Xbox and PS4 players? 

If we are no longer going to be updated, Squad should at least tell us.

[Cheif Operations Director]

16 hours ago, HebaruSan said:

SQUAD and/or Take Two hired Blitworks to port 1.2.2 to consoles. Since we haven't heard anything about them since that port was released, that contract probably expired. SQUAD and/or Take Two would have to start a new contract with them to port 1.3.1 or 1.4.5. Asking them to do that seems like a reasonable enough request to me.

A strange notion; that's exactly how games worked, once upon a time. Care to guess how many free updates there were for the first Super Mario or Zelda games?

Yea and also once upon a time EULAs and Privacy Policies were shorter than the U.S. Law Code

45 minutes ago, DunaManiac said:

I feel like this exact thing is happening for console versions. We haven't gotten any update news since the second patch. I'm starting to wonder If they're even doing it. I wish they would stop pretending that console players don't exist and at least give us some update news.

That's rather unfortunate, but shouldn't console development have some diversity? Look at Minecraft on the PS4 and Xbox 1. They get updates, although a little bit later, and although one version of the Xbox 1 version has stopped being developed, their development team has told everyone and even released a new version! I wish squad was more like this.

But then why do the other platform does get some free updates?

If we are no longer going to be updated, Squad should at least tell us.

Or Just say they are not going to updated it again

9 hours ago, klgraham1013 said:

If you're an avid gamer, I'd bet you actually do this all the time.

Still, I see your point, as there is a version of the same game far beyond what you have.

Write their own wheel code?

We pay for a working game we do not get one, then we get the working version or people who have been waiting buy it and then they stop updating it. If it is a financial failure then fine port us up too 1.5 and the ability to edit game files so we can mod (and the ability too reset the game in case) then call it a day! I know it's a lot but giving console the ability to mod would be nice. 

Again I'm on PC but this is ridiculous for the console players. 

Edited September 17, 2018 by Cheif Operations Director

[SpaceCube2000]

I think the skybox and sun flare effect are in desperate need of an update. 

[Farix]

1 hour ago, DunaManiac said:

7 hours ago, Farix said:

My guess is that the ROI of the console port wasn't worth the effort. You do realize that a game can be a financial success on one platform but a failure on another? 

That is pretty standard for most console games. Once the game is shipped, that is the end of its development cycle and the company, in this case BlitWorks, moves on to the next project. 

That's rather unfortunate, but shouldn't console development have some diversity? Look at Minecraft on the PS4 and Xbox 1. They get updates, although a little bit later, and although one version of the Xbox 1 version has stopped being developed, their development team has told everyone and even released a new version! I wish squad was more like this.

Apples and kumquats. Minecraft is a highly successful product, and because of that it is well worth Microsoft's time and effort to update it to attract new players. However, if Minecraft wasn't successful on the consoles, I highly doubt the console versions would see any regular updates. In fact, the whole reason Microsoft purchase Minecraft was because of its success on the consoles.

[panzer1b]

1 hour ago, SpaceCube2000 said:

I think the skybox and sun flare effect are in desperate need of an update. 

I think thats pretty obvious...

Still, if the devs actually do anything id prefer they pulled both the sunflare and skybox texture outside of the locked .assets files so that anyone who doesnt like whatever they ship stock doesnt have to install texture replacer and scatterer just to get 2 desperately needed fixes.  Is it really that difficult to move a few texture files to a folder outside of those stupid locked .assets (which are a absolute pain to mod and im not even sure they can be in recent versions) and open up simple texture replacing/editing for everyone without requiring resource eating mods (texture replacer isnt too bad, but its really overkill when the only feature of it i use is the ability to replace a few universe textures (never really cared about the whole kerbal customizing thing, reflecty visors are cool though but still not worth the resource use). 

That and dont even get me started on scatterer, a mod that is completely overkill when all i truly want out of it is its sunflare replacement ability so that i can override the piece of garbage that the stock game ships with.  All the other features are nice but just fluff, and id be content with just EVE if not for the unbeareable stock sunflare that doesnt look either realistic or sci-fi as id prefer (itd also do a huge number on my FPS as scatterer takes alot out of it).  The stock sunflare rendering is i guess acceptable (not quite as cool as scatterer's but still workable), just that texture is pathetic and super outdated...